Curse

Celestina · Oct 05, 2010, 03:21 AM // 03:21

So basically, this is what I have so far.

1. Order of Undeath of course

2. Masochism, so that I can reach 18 death magic with a sup rune and head piece

3. Animate Vampiric Horror

4. Feast of the Dead

5. Signet of Lost Souls

6. Animate Bone Fiend

7 and 8. Haven't quite decided yet.

So yeah, that's my bar so far, mostly what I'm worried about is if masochism would cause me to suffer from to much health sacrifice when combined with OoU or would a few vampiric horrors+signet of lost souls prevent that so long as I'm careful?

Chthon · Oct 05, 2010, 04:24 AM // 04:24

1. Feast for the Dead is terrible. First, the heal is low enough and the recharge long enough that it cannot keep minions standing. Second, those minions each cost you a minimum of 1 corpse + 15e. That is too expensive to throw away every 10sec. You're going to have to go BotM for minion healing. It is the only viable option.

2. EBSoHonor is the obvious choice for one free slot.

3. If you intend to take your build into HM, you will need to deal with the fact that HM monsters can often kill off you vamp horrors faster than animate vamp horror recharges. You can boost the recharge with Air of Superiority or EBSoWisdom, or you can supplement you army with another animate skill to use while waiting on vamp horror to recharge.

3a. If you don't intend to take your build into HM, spec 8 Healing Prayers and bring Heal Area to offset your life sacs.

4. There's some debate over Consume Corpse vs SoLS. Try them both and see which you like better.

5. Regarding health sac. Welcome to being a real minion master. This is why heroes aren't up to the task. Step 1 is to carefully consider your max hp. You should run a lot lower than normal to reduce the amount of healing it takes to replace your sacs. Step 2 is to get a decent backline. E/Mo Infusers are your best friends, since they keep your low-hp arse covered with PS and healing your sacs costs them nothing but cast time. Step 3 is to learn how to time your sacs to balance delivering what the minions need when they need it with not getting yourself spiked or accidentally drawing aggro. You need to pay attention to both minions and monsters. Step 4 is to learn to start using OoU as a self-heal. You need to keep track of how many vamps you have, whether they're in position to hit things, and whether they're in EBSoHonor.

chullster · Oct 05, 2010, 08:17 AM // 08:17

If you're going PvE as human minion master, then don't bother with anything other than fiends. Yes wiki says offset OoU with vamps, but why bother? That's what you have N/Rt or other healer heroes for

I only take one minion summon with OoU: Bone Fiends as they attack the fastest.

My necro is the only profession I keep any +1 to atts cons on, so when I PuG zquests I have perma 20 in death magic and use an offhand with +1 Death 20%.

12 x Level 22/23 fiends with OoU + Ebon ward of honor is quickly dead HM foes.

Bring the Ebon ward of + armour too, as your minions are a bit squishy, and as they other guy said, take Blood of the Master, again ignoring saccing, it gives your healers something to do.

My other two or three skills are purely energy management so I can spam OoU/Ebon wards on recharge.

Also there's something to be said from having an 8 necro party, like the HA Lich build, only swap AoL and Fetid for Animate Golem and Masochism. Me and the girlfriend have done a few HM dungeons like that, 8 Golems do not die very fast, they hit hard and are permanant after first raised with or without further corpses. We spent most of our time checking if we had a level 32 or 34 Golem rather that paying attention to the dungeon run, was much more fun too

Luminarus · Oct 05, 2010, 08:45 AM // 08:45

For me:

Animate Bone Fiend
Animate Vampiric Horror
Order of Undeath
Masochism
EBSofHonor
Consume Corpse/SolS (didnt realise CC gave energy now, might have to try that on my MM)
BotM
I like fall back to move parties around quickly, also heals your minions. Can get a decent duration from it with 8 command which then can give you a shield with a met req which makes the damage you take less so your hp isnt as big an issue, but also means you still have 10 + 1 + 2 from massacism in soul reaping giving you a lovely 13 energy from each kill (or 15 if you run a sup soul reap which isnt necessarily a bad idea due to your sacs)

HigherMinion · Oct 05, 2010, 11:32 AM // 11:32

If you just ran fiends, your energy would be incredibly tight. If your heals are superior, take Bone Horror and Fiends.

1.OoU
2.Animate Bone Fiends
3.Animate Bone Horror/Vampric
4.Masochism
5.Ebon Battle Standard of Honour
6.Ebon Battle Standard of Courage
7.Blood of the Master.
8.Consume Corpse

gfg?

ac1inferno · Oct 05, 2010, 02:26 PM // 14:26

With OoU, you want Bone Fiends for fast attack and Vampiric Horrors to offset sac. Masochism should be in every MM build or any build that uses Death Magic. Since you are not a bomber, you should have BoTM. EBSoH is good to bring for your Fiends. So your bar should look something like this:

[build prof=necro/any deathm=12+1+3 soulre=9+1][Order of [email protected]][animate bone [email protected]][animate vampiric [email protected]][[email protected]][Blood of the [email protected]][Ebon Battle Standard of Honor][optional][Optional][/build]

The last two slots can be anything really; whether you need e-management, heal, or more damage.

Calista Blackblood · Oct 05, 2010, 03:17 PM // 15:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by ac1inferno

With OoU, you want Bone Fiends for fast attack and Vampiric Horrors to offset sac.

Sac from what?

HigherMinion · Oct 05, 2010, 04:24 PM // 16:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calista BlackBlood

Sac from what?

Order of Undeath? sac each time minions attack?

Calista Blackblood · Oct 05, 2010, 04:30 PM // 16:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

Order of Undeath? sac each time minions attack?

Shhh :P There's a point to my question

Chthon · Oct 06, 2010, 03:37 AM // 03:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by chullster

If you're going PvE as human minion master, then don't bother with anything other than fiends. Yes wiki says offset OoU with vamps, but why bother?

1. Because horrors move in to melee range and pick up aggro and bodyblock. Fiends stay at range.

2. Because horrors have 80AL (@18death) and can last for a awhile while absorbing damage. Fiends have only 60AL (@18 death).

3. Because the energy load of running all fiends is ridiculous.

Xenomortis · Oct 06, 2010, 09:38 AM // 09:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by chullster

If you're going PvE as human minion master, then don't bother with anything other than fiends. Yes wiki says offset OoU with vamps, but why bother? That's what you have N/Rt or other healer heroes for

The idea is to increase the durability of your army significantly without cutting too much into your damage output (and having 7 fiends live twice as long as 10/11 fiends will give a better result). Vamp Horrors are good for this since you don't need a fast recharging minion and energy becomes easy enough with them being only 15e compared to a 25e fiend. I did some crude maths at one point and basically found that 4 Vamp Horrors in your team attacking with 7 Fiends can make up for almost 50% of the sac cost from OoU (depending on AL and all). That just pushes them over the top; if it weren't for that I'd take Bone Horrors instead.

The general core of an OoU bar is 3-4 skills (depending on how much you like the second minion summon).
Assuming you take both Fiends and Vamp Horrors, then you have 4 slots left. You need extra energy management (typically SoLS or CC depending on corpse count) leaving you with three skill slots.
Masochism is very tempting - an extra minion (total of 11 all at level 20) both increases your defensive capabilities and your offensive power.
This essentially leaves you with 2 spare slots - take what you like. You shouldn't need self healing (you have dedicated backliners in your team for a reason), just be sensible with OoU if you come under fire. My preferred option is to take EBSoH for extra firepower and EBSoC for keeping minions (and perhaps teammates) alive for a little longer. Other options are cleaning and some very light prots or healing.
Unlike hero minion bomber bars, you really can't afford to spec too far out of Soul Reaping for ancillary functions.

WhiteAsIce · Oct 06, 2010, 11:42 AM // 11:42

I'm also considering dropping Vamp Horrors from my Necro's OoU bar. Considering that with a Sup Rune for DM, my Necro still has 510 health, every minion hit only amounts to 10 health lost from OoU, 11 with Morale Boosts. Quite frankly, I can live with live. Just know that if your Animate Bone Fiend gets disabled (Diversion, DShot, etc), you're a sitting duck for that time.