Curse

Absolute Destiny · Apr 24, 2011, 07:50 PM // 19:50

When using Spiteful Spirit, is it better to use hexes which make enemies miss (Price of Failure, Reckless Haste), OR use hexes which do damage whenever they hit (Insidious Parasite, Empathy)?

Chthon · Apr 24, 2011, 08:37 PM // 20:37

1. Use of SS is questionable in the first place, but I'm going to ignore that for purposes of answering your question.

2. Using the one skill that makes the enemy attack faster - Reckless Haste - is advised because it makes SS do its damage faster.

3. Causing the enemy to miss is a good thing on its own (you get hit less), but has nothing to do with SS's damage. (SS triggers on attack, not on hit, so missed attacks still trigger SS.)

4. Placing other reactive hexes on the same foe who is cursed with SS is generally undesirable because it causes the target to die sooner, which reduces the amount of damage SS does to the guys standing next to him. (Exceptions would be mega bosses like Shiro who you just want to kill without regard to the AoE effect. However, in that case, you might opt for Spoil Victor over SS in the first place.)

Absolute Destiny · Apr 24, 2011, 09:55 PM // 21:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

1. Use of SS is questionable in the first place, but I'm going to ignore that for purposes of answering your question.

2. Using the one skill that makes the enemy attack faster - Reckless Haste - is advised because it makes SS do its damage faster.

3. Causing the enemy to miss is a good thing on its own (you get hit less), but has nothing to do with SS's damage. (SS triggers on attack, not on hit, so missed attacks still trigger SS.)

4. Placing other reactive hexes on the same foe who is cursed with SS is generally undesirable because it causes the target to die sooner, which reduces the amount of damage SS does to the guys standing next to him. (Exceptions would be mega bosses like Shiro who you just want to kill without regard to the AoE effect. However, in that case, you might opt for Spoil Victor over SS in the first place.)

Thanks for the info.

How is use of SS questionable?
And what elite would you advise on a Curses-based skillbar?

**Marty Silverblade** · Apr 24, 2011, 10:15 PM // 22:15

SS is questionable because it's reactive: you cast it and then you wait for the foe to kill itself. This is opposed to active hexes like Mark of Pain which are triggerable (and how much you trigger this is fully controlled by you and your team). MoP damage scales with the power and skill of your team, SS does not. With a good/decent team active hexes far outdo reactive ones.

Mike Jack · Apr 24, 2011, 10:27 PM // 22:27

No synergy with anything also.

IronSheik · Apr 24, 2011, 11:24 PM // 23:24

Assassin's Promise for recharge of Mark of Pain

Pain of disenchantment for AoE Enchant removal+Damage

Lingering curse has some limited use

But SS should basically only be used on heroes if you have no better alternatives

But as far as PvE goes that's it for curse related lines.

Insidious parasite and empathy in PvE are moot if you ask me, they're single target, simply not worth it in an area of effect setting. Reckless haste/shadow of fear are better and more simply replaced with blind/shared burden imo.

Pugs Not Drugs · Apr 24, 2011, 11:42 PM // 23:42

ss isnt as useful anymore because:

a. with all these mesmers running around and rupting everything, ss doesnt get triggered as often.

b. in order for ss to do damage, the enemy has to be attacking/casting, which is counterproductive in hm.

the enemy doing nothing at all > the enemy doing something and getting punished for it

and besides, i love me some shadow of fear, but i cant bring it if im bringing ss, so i generally bring pain of disenchantment on my curses hero.

Kunder · Apr 25, 2011, 02:09 AM // 02:09

If you mob enemies up, SS does damage every time an enemy attacks while MoP does damage every time any physical ally attacks. SS is strictly limited to about 30-35ish DPS, while MoP is unlimited. SS still works for PvE, its just not the top tier of builds and is a bit slower.

reaper with no name · Apr 25, 2011, 03:11 AM // 03:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronSheik

Assassin's Promise for recharge of Mark of Pain

Pain of disenchantment for AoE Enchant removal+Damage

Lingering curse has some limited use

But SS should basically only be used on heroes if you have no better alternatives

But as far as PvE goes that's it for curse related lines.

I've really been meaning to ask about PoD. One of my heroes is currently using SS, mainly because I couldn't justify to myself anything else from Curses. The only real alternative I could see was PoD, but damage-wise SS will easily beat it in 3 triggers, meaning the only reason to use PoD is for enchantment removal. I've never needed enchantment removal in PvE, so why would anyone use PoD?

Chthon · Apr 25, 2011, 05:02 AM // 05:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

I've really been meaning to ask about PoD. One of my heroes is currently using SS, mainly because I couldn't justify to myself anything else from Curses. The only real alternative I could see was PoD, but damage-wise SS will easily beat it in 3 triggers, meaning the only reason to use PoD is for enchantment removal. I've never needed enchantment removal in PvE, so why would anyone use PoD?

In the very few areas that you face strong prot monks, PoD really shines. Your attacks draw the prot, which then gets shattered all to hell w/ some nice bonus damage on top, helping you finish the spike before the prot recharges.

Also useful on things with integer reduction skills pumped up to ridiculousness by HM attribute levels -- like those mandragors w/ stoneflesh. Though that's more of a convenience than a necessity.

-----

@OP,
Marty and Kunder pretty much summed up why SS is not the greatest thing ever.

reaper with no name · Apr 25, 2011, 06:16 AM // 06:16

Oh, I know SS isn't great (or even good). But you've got to put something in that elite slot. And based on what you're telling me, SS seems to be better than PoD unless you're facing prot monks.

Arrogant Bastard · Apr 25, 2011, 10:08 AM // 10:08

What about FoC?

I used 2 FoC necros in Gloom HM and it did better than a few other hero teams I tried.

Calista Blackblood · Apr 25, 2011, 02:26 PM // 14:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arrogant Bastard

What about FoC?

I used 2 FoC necros in Gloom HM and it did better than a few other hero teams I tried.

I'm pretty confident you had 6 other professions also,without knowing what those are you might as well ask how long a peice of string is.

Xenomortis · Apr 25, 2011, 03:28 PM // 15:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

Oh, I know SS isn't great (or even good). But you've got to put something in that elite slot. And based on what you're telling me, SS seems to be better than PoD unless you're facing prot monks.

Unless you're facing mobs without enchantment, PoD will do damage; SS may not.
Of course it's also a decent strip to remove prots if you like a little micro.

And FoC has a terrible condition for good damage, is expensive and has a nasty cast time (kind of like SS really).

Arrogant Bastard · Apr 25, 2011, 04:54 PM // 16:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calista Blackblood

I'm pretty confident you had 6 other professions also,without knowing what those are you might as well ask how long a peice of string is.

I kept the other builds mostly constant (primarily moving around the paragon shouts).

Xeno: Are you talking about the hex condition for FoC? Isn't that pretty easily met?

Xenomortis · Apr 25, 2011, 05:08 PM // 17:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arrogant Bastard

Xeno: Are you talking about the hex condition for FoC? Isn't that pretty easily met?

It is, but Suffering is terrible and is the best way to reliably get the condition fulfilled.
Shadow of Fear and Reckless Haste are viable (RH > SoF for this) but have a smaller AoE.*

*Yes the AoE is the same size as that for FoC, but enemies move around so getting the condition fulfilled reliably is a pain.

reaper with no name · Apr 25, 2011, 06:31 PM // 18:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Unless you're facing mobs without enchantment, PoD will do damage; SS may not.
Of course it's also a decent strip to remove prots if you like a little micro.

And FoC has a terrible condition for good damage, is expensive and has a nasty cast time (kind of like SS really).

I'm still not quite convinced.

How well do heroes use PoD? Do they only use it on enemies with enchantments?

By the way, does SS trigger on attacks/spells that are interrupted? If it doesn't, I'll never use it again (though FoC does look quite nice as an alternative...).

Xenomortis · Apr 25, 2011, 06:44 PM // 18:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

How well do heroes use PoD? Do they only use it on enemies with enchantments?

By the way, does SS trigger on attacks/spells that are interrupted? If it doesn't, I'll never use it again (though FoC does look quite nice as an alternative...).

PoD is an enchantment removal skill, so I'd assume heroes used it as one.
I only bring a hero with this skill occasionally, but it's easy to test in the Isle of the Nameless.

And no, the action must complete for SS to trigger.

Edit:
Yes, they only use PoD if their target is enchanted.

Chthon · Apr 25, 2011, 11:00 PM // 23:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

Oh, I know SS isn't great (or even good). But you've got to put something in that elite slot. And based on what you're telling me, SS seems to be better than PoD unless you're facing prot monks.

Yes, I tend to run SS on a curse hero unless I feel like PoD is going to pay off.

majoho · Apr 25, 2011, 11:17 PM // 23:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

2. Using the one skill that makes the enemy attack faster - Reckless Haste - is advised because it makes SS do its damage faster.

As far as I know in hard mode mobs will not actually attack faster since they are capped so the only effect is actually the second part of the hex.

I'm experimenting with a heavy shutdown build myself and since abilities like SS don't require the mob to actually hit just to attack I must say it works very well.

What I'm using for melee shutdown

Necro: SS, Reckless Haste, Price of Failure
Mesmer: Ineptitude (blind), Empathy, Clumsiness + Signet of Clumsiness