Curse

HANK · Sep 26, 2006, 02:34 PM // 14:34

I cried through every page of this post.

99% of pug monks suck is rough. I like to think of myself as being a solid monk, pug'ing through most of the game. True there are some that aren't very helpful, like the M/R with 7/8 ranger skills + mending, ah yes 'keeping Mhenlo alive with his bow' or so he explained.

Much thanks to all the people along the way who have appreciated me monk with a 'ty awesome work'.

There are a lot of suggestions (most commonly used, effective strategies) that can help, especially a lot of new monks. But if the monk is doing a solid job with his/her own build don't be hating. There isn't always a right or wrong.

luauelveneno · Sep 26, 2006, 03:07 PM // 15:07

so is healparty and healing breeze bad or not? i use them both whenever its really needed. i never had an complaint about my healing with it besides one time someone said: "healing breeze is for noobmonks and you are one for sure cuz u have healingbreeze"

Tachyon · Sep 26, 2006, 03:15 PM // 15:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trvth Jvstice

I don't know if you're kidding or not

But you do let your pug know before you start that you're Smite right? hope so

Naaaa you gotta be kidding

Yeah, I always make it known that I'm a smiter. Yet still the cretins complain that I'm not healing them. I think some idiots just see a monk and automatically think 'heal or prot' even though it's been pointed out to them that I'm a smite monk.

Xeeron · Sep 26, 2006, 03:19 PM // 15:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by luauelveneno

so is healparty and healing breeze bad or not?

While it is hard to say a skill is outright bad (it usually depends on the situation), there is almost nothing that can defend using healing breeze as a PUG monk unless you are deliberatly trying to make the game more challenging.

In contrast Heal Party does have its valid uses in PUGs. The problem with this skill is that it is so easy to use it the wrong way, so people will usually take you for a bad monk if they see you using it and you have to prove to them that you know what you are doing.

- Xeeron

Jessyi · Sep 26, 2006, 03:23 PM // 15:23

All I know is that when I get a compliment for being a good monk, it's easy to be modest. Kind of like if someone were to come up to you and praise your excellent breathing. But that's PvE for you. Craptacular builds run on a ranger, or a warrior, or an elementalist (or nearly any other class) don't get noticed. Sure, you can't interrupt a damn thing, you output no damage, or you finish a battle with 70% exhaustion, but who cares? The enemies died...eventually, right? Now just wait 3 minutes to recover so you can spam cast echo meteor shower and ob flame again. Unfortunately, while the rest of the group is taking forever and a boatload of resources to complete a few basic tasks (ie. killing monster mobs), your monk has got to work like a dog to try and keep your dumb asses alive long enough to finish your criminally incompetent work. If the monk is a failure, then the group fails. The monk could be superior to the rest of the group however and the group would still fail. Of course, the downside of ignorance and stupidity is that the monk almost always still gets blamed an account of those blaming him/her/it probably don't know thier ass from a hole in the ground, nevermind where the actual points of failure in a group were.

You know what? On second thought, I'll take that compliment.

-Jessyi

Gun Pierson · Sep 26, 2006, 04:12 PM // 16:12

You got more than a point there Jessyi.

FalconDance · Sep 26, 2006, 04:18 PM // 16:18

Breeze is good for some applications, yes. For instance, I was just monking for a team in the Wilds. Breeze was handy to counter poison while Mend Ailment was recharging. I want to thank most of them for doing a good job at their varied professions (warrior, nec and monk). But the mesmer........arrrrg!

What makes a decent monk want to scream?!? When one player - usually a squishie - obsesses on something ingame and rushes off where warriors fear to tread! We were doing mission & bonus, and the mes kept seeing the Blade runnning so thought we were supposed to magically catch them and kill for the bonus. Never mind that we tried to tell her different. Never mind that she ran into the heaviest concentration of centaurs and promptly aggro'd several groups, thus killing half the team.

She got two resurrects, one from the other monk and one from me (after everyone said to leave her dead). I told her that was her last "get out of stupid free" card. She kept screaming "there they are! Did you see them?" (to which my answer was "no, I've been too busy healing YOU") and wouldn't listen regarding the bonus until *after* we'd finished the mission and I was trying to explain it to the necro so she could go back and finish it later.

Sometimes it ain't the monk being a noob, guys.

Kha · Sep 26, 2006, 05:11 PM // 17:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xeeron

While it is hard to say a skill is outright bad (it usually depends on the situation), there is almost nothing that can defend using healing breeze as a PUG monk unless you are deliberatly trying to make the game more challenging.

In contrast Heal Party does have its valid uses in PUGs. The problem with this skill is that it is so easy to use it the wrong way, so people will usually take you for a bad monk if they see you using it and you have to prove to them that you know what you are doing.

- Xeeron

Um, what are you talking about? Using Healing Breeze doesn't make the game more challenging. There's nothing wrong with it. The problem is monks that think just spamming Healing Breeze and Heal Party as the only heal is a correct option. It's a waste of energy to do that, counterproductive, and just downright stupid.

Spamming any high energy cost spell that doesn't need to be used so much will obviously make the game more challenging. Healing Breeze is a great spell, but not enough people understand when to use it and who to use it on. Too many people see a party member get a slight bit of health gone and immediately they are like "Oh no, Healing Breeze to the rescue!" Same with people that use Heal Party when only 1 person is taking damage.

There is no skill that is ever bad in your skillbar as long as you know how to use it effectively in your build.

FrogDevourer · Sep 26, 2006, 05:17 PM // 17:17

My momma always said, "PuGs are like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get." You never know if your group is composed of kamikaze rambo assassins with Shing Jea armor (and believe me it's quite an impressive show) or smart people with decent builds and skills. Sometimes you fail a very easy mission because a couple of morons are not watching their radar or because they don't know their basics (*cough* monk rebirthing in combat *cough*), and sometimes you master the Imperial Sanctuum with 6 players (one err7 and ragequit on first death) and only one monk, or you butcher Argo and the Kraken with 5 players and no serious interrupter. But to be honest, if one could recruit a real nuker henchman and MM/SS henchmen, we'd miss a lot of fun in PuGs. Unfortunately that's probably what will happen with Heroes who are basically much more powerful and efficient than the average pick-up player.

For the records, this topic has been discussed to death in many other threads, including off-topic discussions, Healing Breeze and Heal Party, French hate and all.

saphir · Sep 26, 2006, 05:24 PM // 17:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jessyi

Sure, you can't interrupt a damn thing, you output no damage, or you finish a battle with 70% exhaustion, but who cares? The enemies died...eventually, right?

Now ain't that the truth!

Funny thing is I most often get compliments as a monk after such spectacular failures of any coherent teamwork in a group. You have your ele spamming meteor showers on moving mobs and thus pounding the empty dirt into dust, warriors repeated attacking against SoJ or w/ SS hexes, the other monk running off to a safe distance to watch thinking we're all dead, necros standing in a pack of mobs trying to spam their 2 sec spells thru maelstrom. And finally after keeping everyone alive after 5 minutes of this madness, the last enemy dies.

I don't monk for compliments, nor gold (I would never take gold or any reward for monking), nor ego. I monk because it's a challenge I enjoy, and what's the most challenging thing in GW? Pugs of course! Their behavior is never the same, always different, and always.. um, unique.

I don't get easily frustrated or angry. but it does start becoming a waste of time when every little battle takes 5 minutes or more

the_jos · Sep 26, 2006, 06:02 PM // 18:02

Since I am member of a small guild ( 8 members, half europe / half US ) I'm PuG monking most of the time.
And PuG any-other-char also.

My experience is that you can tell a whether or not a (Pu) group will be successfull from the first encounters with enemies.
When things go bad then, they will get worse later.

As stated before by others, it's the group that fails, not one of the players.
When I monk and don't trust the group, I will ask to bring at least one evasive and one self heal skill.
When people complain, I'll ask them if the other 6 skills are worth something when they are dead.
I cannot take care of all when under heavy pressure (should have taken Heal Party...).
And a monk can get, as any player, dc or otherwise drop ( "i have to go to bed now...", leaves )

I've done a large part of the Ring of Fire mission without healers (they left), with only one Rit (Lord) in the team.
Lucky all had some form of self heal, so we could continue.

So I do understand the complains about the monk spamming skills and having no energy, but the fact that the mission fails because of that gives me the impression that the whole group depended on the monk too much.

Early in the game, most professions get some form of self heal skill, so why not take those? Same with evasive. Condition removal could be usefull when you enter a area with conditions that ruin your build (like blind on a W).
So if you know the condition will render you useless, why not take a remove skill? Since W's don't have one themself, take one from the second profession.
If that's not possible, ask monk to remove. Also usefull when you get condition twice and monk's skill is still recharging.

EPO Bot · Sep 26, 2006, 07:24 PM // 19:24

My E/Rit had a spirit of preservation as a pocket monk and it sometimes heals more then the real healers

Mmmm...Pocket monk...Guess that name is taken already right?

luinks · Sep 26, 2006, 08:46 PM // 20:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by saphir

I don't monk for compliments, nor gold (I would never take gold or any reward for monking), nor ego. I monk because it's a challenge I enjoy, and what's the most challenging thing in GW? Pugs of course! Their behavior is never the same, always different, and always.. um, unique.

I don't get easily frustrated or angry. but it does start becoming a waste of time when every little battle takes 5 minutes or more

I hated monking my first times so i gave up and went all smiting, but as you say the challenge to keep everyone as healthy as possible rush my blood, i know is silly but after neglecting my monk over 6 months now i find it very interesting character and i enjoy pumping those red bars to the max

Merlin Munk · Sep 26, 2006, 10:05 PM // 22:05

I Love playing Monk in PUG, Its a FUN challenge. The thing I dont like is too get flamed for going smite from time too time. But that will all change now when heroes comes in play with nightfall. Finally I can do smite without people nagging "Can u heal", "pls switch too heal" or "Omg kick him we need healers". Funny thing is, If I get kicked, I just switch too heal and join another team just too get even! But not before whisp my former leader about it. :-D

Yes, I am mean
But only when people treat me bad

Merlin munk
"I LOVE THUNDER HEAD KEEP"

Age · Sep 26, 2006, 10:26 PM // 22:26

I got this by someone from GWOnline names to be withheld.

Quote:

You think seven people is a lot? The number of people I've griefed is probably in the thousands. I'm sure they all stopped playing Guild Wars, and to this day remember the time that monk released eight bone fiends to slaughter them.

Yes, my monk is extremely evil, and is the only character I have that griefs. It's just in her nature, I'm simply being in-character.

Her only weapon sets are a Bone Staff, a Poisonous Cleaver of Enchanting/Bleached Skull, and a black Flute. Her 15k armor is full black as well, except for the dark crimson stains from her allies' blood.

This is a story that was written about one of the terrible things my monk does for fun. Fort Ranik is her outpost of choice.

At any rate, my actions do not attribute to the attitude displayed by the OP. A PuG monk being terrible, and a PuG monk purposely slaughtering your entire team and then laughing at you for it, are two completely different things. It's one thing to think a PuG monk is bad at healing, it's another to think they want to kill you.

And my attitude isn't negative. My monk enjoys her work quite a bit.

achilles ankle · Sep 27, 2006, 12:48 AM // 00:48

Well dont fret ppl as soon as nightfall comes out you and a friend can just head off and beat the game on ur own. 3 heroes each, able to equip the best weps u can give them and able to use ANY skill for their proffesion you have ever unlocked....i say who the hell needs pugs. just a waste of time and im not even gonna talk about pug monks, not the ones who spam high energy spells...just trying to get a pug monk with a DECENT attitude is why my hero monk>any pug monk.

achilles ankle · Sep 27, 2006, 12:53 AM // 00:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jessyi

All I know is that when I get a compliment for being a good monk, it's easy to be modest. Kind of like if someone were to come up to you and praise your excellent breathing. But that's PvE for you. Craptacular builds run on a ranger, or a warrior, or an elementalist (or nearly any other class) don't get noticed. Sure, you can't interrupt a damn thing, you output no damage, or you finish a battle with 70% exhaustion, but who cares? The enemies died...eventually, right? Now just wait 3 minutes to recover so you can spam cast echo meteor shower and ob flame again. Unfortunately, while the rest of the group is taking forever and a boatload of resources to complete a few basic tasks (ie. killing monster mobs), your monk has got to work like a dog to try and keep your dumb asses alive long enough to finish your criminally incompetent work. If the monk is a failure, then the group fails. The monk could be superior to the rest of the group however and the group would still fail. Of course, the downside of ignorance and stupidity is that the monk almost always still gets blamed an account of those blaming him/her/it probably don't know thier ass from a hole in the ground, nevermind where the actual points of failure in a group were.

You know what? On second thought, I'll take that compliment.

-Jessyi

^
stereotypical pug monk, thinks they can talk down/about any other class because they "have the power" to do what ever they want. this is why im glad pugs are gonna be a thing of the past THANK GOD

and on a side note my ele barely has to deal with insane exhaustion so idk u must get horrible ele's

xiao1985 · Sep 27, 2006, 02:53 AM // 02:53

welcome to gw....

good monks (in fact, good players) exist in the ratio of 1:10...

sooner or later you will bagg out:
warrior aggro'ing as soon as you finished 1mob (ie needs regen)
ele tanking
ranger pulling (ok, not so much of a bad thing, but i'd much prefer a tank pulling)
monk smiting
warrior doing nothing (not even tanking)
necro doing BR/BiP when you are on near en (ok again, not so much of a crime, you know they are good intentioned....)

cataphract · Sep 27, 2006, 06:16 AM // 06:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Braggi

I know the thread. The trouble is, the worse the PUG, the more unwanted and often false "advice" or requests the monk gets - and more abuse. A mediocre ranger or caster can hide in the crowd. A monk can only look as good as his group lets him, and so a mediocre monk in a mediocre PUG will look bad when things go wrong.

Healbot makes a good point. I grew tired of rangers bringing pets just because they can and stoppped healing them. Rangers, not pets.

These days I ask if anyone has a pet, then if they can pretty please with sugar on top remove it because I dont waste energy on dumb beasts. Only exception I made was when a beastmaster was on the team.

torquemada · Sep 27, 2006, 06:58 AM // 06:58

Why are you healing pets? If they get blackout from pet dying, I don't think it's really your fault.