Curse

gogoblender · Nov 17, 2006, 08:24 AM // 08:24

Hey guys

I must say, I love the new heroes and putting together two monks to do a great job for a pve team is fascinating me.
I remember when I first got these monks all the high powered heals i quickly stuck on them, which led very quickly to a huge e deficit and lots of deaths :P
I've been studing how many small 5 e heals it takes to set off something like Divine Spirit, where then the heroe AI decides to activate Divine spirit cuz it's been "triggered" by x number of heals and so the AI looks to lower our cost of e outlay.
I like that
I've also done some tests with heroes using Signets.
Alas...the AI WON'T use a healing signet first, instead opting out to use magical heals as long as it can find e to work with

Er...anyone else found a way to make the hero click automatically FIRST on something I want it to click on first as a matter of personal choice rather than the heroe AI making it's own judgement of the skills I choose for the heroes to use?
Would be kinda cool if it used up the sigs and all the free healing first before dipping into my E reservoirs, lol

Anyway...I"m running a very strong offensive front line with my main character as a warrior/mes, Koss,
and two other heroes as uber healing monks.
The rest of the eight (when i choose to go as full group

) is made up of henchie warrior, dervish,paragon and whatever I first click on next :P
I"m kinda new at Gw and so I"m still unsure of how best to set up two monks with great support synergy for the team
So far, i'm using Divine and Healing as my only attributes and only using the monks for power healing.
I've set up Koss to always use Frenzy and WAtch Yourself.
Since my main toon is a warrior and Koss runs with him where ever he goes...havin Koss Spam Watch YOurself is a small miracle. The Ai is WAY faster than me always having to click it, and with Koss always using it he gets away with frenzy now 24/7 :P
I'm curious to know how you guys have set up your monks.
And, if you really think that it's absolutely necessary to have a prot monk as well..lol, maybe you could list some tips or ideas on how to balance these monks against the larger balancing act with heroes in our party now?
I"m particulary interested in team heals with two monks.
Thanks

gogo

Effendi Westland · Nov 17, 2006, 08:37 AM // 08:37

I've got one set up as healer (woh, orison, mend ailmanet, sig of devotion, forgot other heal skills at the moment) and one as prot/heal (gift of health, zealous benidiction, reversal of fortune, guardian, mend ailment, extinguish).

Both have leech signet and power drain, I typically do not give them res sigs.

Thom Bangalter · Nov 17, 2006, 08:38 AM // 08:38

both are b-light. both are great. I also use leech sig and power drain to help with the energy. They don't seem to like to use signet of devotion though, so you may just want to put another energy management skill in that slot.

Carth` · Nov 17, 2006, 01:02 PM // 13:02

I find they aren't so good at more complex builds. Give them Blessed Light and they use it on someone at full health with 1 hex on them, and shortly afterwards have no energy. They are great at reactions based healing though. I usually make something up that I wouldn't use myself, and give them Ins magic interrupts for energy.

I give them a hard res but disable it. Don't want them using it when people need healing, they use it when I tell them to.

Basically something where they can use their reactions but don't have to think. The AI has no idea which hexes are worth removing, and there are a lot of elemental area effect hexes in the part of the game I am. If I give them hex removal they waste time removing Ice Gust from a caster.

Dark Helmet · Nov 17, 2006, 01:06 PM // 13:06

Apparently the further to the left of the bar you place a skill, the more often the hero will use it... so maybe put Sig of Devotion further to the left?

Of course, that probably won't help, but just thought I'd say that.

The most effective E-management I've found is Vigorous Spirit/Healing Light.

It doesn't rely on anything but those two skills.

Lurid · Nov 17, 2006, 01:41 PM // 13:41

They use MoR well.

Thom Bangalter · Nov 17, 2006, 01:46 PM // 13:46

they use rof well too.

gogoblender · Nov 17, 2006, 03:35 PM // 15:35

vigorous spirit/healing light?
allright, I'll give that a go...rof and mor...leech sig and power drain...that too.
My warrior now has his automatic use of frenzy/Watch Yourself down to a science. That very short(sometimes surprisingly so) buff is now as rock solid as it gets. I'm hoping to discover something like that, here, which capitalizes on the AI's uber speed at firing off Skills. Dark Helmet I've tried putting Signets (two of em in fact) all the way to the left with just one magic skill on the bar to the right of them
heh, the AI will still go fer the e first.

Suggestion to the devs?
They should really allow us to prioritize, if we choose to, a system of how we want the skills to fire off in a selected order. Would be cool if we could at least have our own choice of first skill used in the skill bar. In this case, the Ai's choice of using an e skill first rather than the signet, has me always dipping into my e reservoire first rather than using the free energy of the signet.
grrrrrrrrrrr

gogo

Gigashadow · Nov 18, 2006, 12:28 AM // 00:28

They don't seem to like to use Gift of Health anywhere near as much as they should, even when it is the leftmost skill.

Rera · Nov 18, 2006, 12:53 AM // 00:53

OMG Life Sheath is the best skill evar.

Hey, but what about healing builds guys? Try this:

Mending
Healing Breeze
Heal Other
Orison of Healing
Rebirth

Make sure you cast Mending on as many people as possible first. Sometimes the hero will cancel it because they don't know any better, so make sure to click on it again.

mikkel · Nov 18, 2006, 01:35 AM // 01:35

I've been trying, but they seem to be exceptionally stupid. I set mine up with Orison, Heal Other, Blessed Light, Signet of Devotion, Healing Touch, Heal Party, Divine Spirit and Resurrection Chant, and he completely messes it up.

He uses Healing Touch for self heals as I'd like him to, but in combat where any sort of hex or condition is dealt, he always waits for 10 energy to regen in order to cast Blessed Light no matter how many people in the group are dying. He doesn't even use SoD. It gets pretty frustrating.

Nivryx · Nov 18, 2006, 04:11 PM // 16:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rera

OMG Life Sheath is the best skill evar.

Hey, but what about healing builds guys? Try this:

Mending
Healing Breeze
Heal Other
Orison of Healing
Rebirth

Make sure you cast Mending on as many people as possible first. Sometimes the hero will cancel it because they don't know any better, so make sure to click on it again.

lol i hope your joking. if you want to keep their enchants up you shift click it to disable it and then cast it yourself. healing breeze is spammed too much in elona because they use it to counter degen and theres plenty of places where your whole party is up for degen.

Rera · Nov 18, 2006, 05:46 PM // 17:46

Yeah, but clicking it again uses more energy, and using more energy means that the monk is working hard.

I don't think there is such a thing as healing breeze spammed "too much". You yourself said that in many places your entire party is degening, so as long as you have energy, you should keep using Healing Breeze.

Nivryx · Nov 18, 2006, 11:18 PM // 23:18

Quote:

Yeah, but clicking it again uses more energy, and using more energy means that the monk is working hard.

i do not understand, did you try my suggestion? if you disable a enchantment on a hero's skillbar and click it yourself, they will keep the enchantment up 100% of the time until disenchanted by death or enemy. and 8 players x 10e = 80energy to keep the whole party from degening, its much easier to run a protection hero build with mend or dismiss condition. with dismiss i can heal around 110 for 5e while removing the condition, much more energy efficient imo. i guess it just comes down to your personal preference, i prefer to simply remove the condition while healing instead of just covering, even if im running a healing prayers build with only my left over attribute points in protection prayers. >edit< also if your whole party is degening, heal party is a life saver, and if your planning for degen the whole duration of whatever, then Light of Deliverance may be worth looking into >/edit<

I am deleting an old post and combining with this one for easier reference.

i personally run heal while i let my dunkoro generally run the protection, though some missions you really should be doing the protection because the AI doesn't know how to properly spam protective spirit.

Divine 12 (10+1+1)
Protection or Healing Prayers(Depending on build) 12 (11+1)
Inspiration 10
Leftover attributes into protection prayers if your running hero is running healing.
(these are estimates, I forget if exactly correct)

[skill]Life Sheath[/skill][skill]Reversal of Fortune[/skill] [skill]Protective Spirit[/skill] [skill]Leech Signet[/skill] [skill]Power Drain[/skill] [skill]Mend Condition[/skill] [skill]Holy Veil[/skill] [skill]Rebirth[/skill]
[skill]Glimmer of Light[/skill] [skill]Orison of Healing[/skill] [skill]Words of Comfort[/skill] [skill]Leech Signet[/skill] [skill]Power Drain[/skill] [skill]Mend Condition[/skill][skill]Holy Veil[/skill] [skill]Rebirth[/skill]

Should be set to 'Guard' so leech signet and power drain will be used (they're considered offensive skills and won't be used while in passive). If you're having your hero use a +5e sword/axe then its best to keep them on passive until they need some energy, switch them to guard and back to passive when they use it or else they'll go in and attack with their melee weapon.

Rebirth should always be disabled and manually activated if needed. it can also be swapped out if you so wish, i always like having a hench with rez just in case. I personally disable protective spirit and ill just manually activate while im healing someone since my interface makes this very easy. mend condition can be swapped for dismiss conditions, depending on your personal preference and the build your running. leech signet can also be swapped out as well if energy management isn't a problem, i just run it so i don't have to bring olias along as my br / bip slave.

Phoenix Arrows · Nov 18, 2006, 11:26 PM // 23:26

I just stick them as Mo/A Zealous Benedictions. Nice and simple.

Dallcingi · Nov 23, 2006, 10:04 PM // 22:04

I use a glimmer monk and an RC monk lol.

twicky_kid · Nov 24, 2006, 01:54 AM // 01:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Apparently the further to the left of the bar you place a skill, the more often the hero will use it... so maybe put Sig of Devotion further to the left?

This is not true. It does not matter where you place the skill on the bar. The AI uses skills based on requirement triggers.

Ally is taking heavy dmg quickly. He will more than likely cast sheild of absorption, prot spirit, or spirit bond than try to heal through the dmg.

Mending touch removes 2 conditions but if an ally only has 1 condition it will not be used because the 2 condition trigger has not been met.

Ally is near 50% hp he is more likely to use a big healing spell than a small one. Works vise versa if you are at 80% he isn't going to use heal other on you. More likely orison.

SoD is triggered when he cannot cast a spell or something is going to cause a repercusion. Say you have backfire on the hero. He is more likely to use SoD because it will not trigger the backfire dmg.

Learn what makes the AI trigger and you'll quickly learn what skills they can use best. Also know when to put the AI setting on guard and when not to.

My biggest problem with the monk AI is if you are moving and some one needs healing he will not stop to heal even himself.

Tsunami Rain · Nov 24, 2006, 02:45 AM // 02:45

moved.

Evilsod · Nov 24, 2006, 03:00 AM // 03:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

This is not true. It does not matter where you place the skill on the bar. The AI uses skills based on requirement triggers.

Ally is taking heavy dmg quickly. He will more than likely cast sheild of absorption, prot spirit, or spirit bond than try to heal through the dmg.

Mending touch removes 2 conditions but if an ally only has 1 condition it will not be used because the 2 condition trigger has not been met.

Ally is near 50% hp he is more likely to use a big healing spell than a small one. Works vise versa if you are at 80% he isn't going to use heal other on you. More likely orison.

SoD is triggered when he cannot cast a spell or something is going to cause a repercusion. Say you have backfire on the hero. He is more likely to use SoD because it will not trigger the backfire dmg.

Learn what makes the AI trigger and you'll quickly learn what skills they can use best. Also know when to put the AI setting on guard and when not to.

My biggest problem with the monk AI is if you are moving and some one needs healing he will not stop to heal even himself.

Its a good observation... but the AI still sucks. I've lost count of how many times i've been wandering around with heros too lazy to switch off my vamp bow and been 'saved' by a Shielding Hands or Prot Spirit. Or of course the old favourite getting hit by massive damage attacks and they don't bother using Prot Spirit.

I've taken to giving my heros Light of Deliverance. A 5e Heal Party isn't all that bad, really does take the edge off those sodding Water Hex spikes or massive degen builds.

xDusT II · Nov 24, 2006, 04:44 AM // 04:44

first off with Hero monks you want to make their build as simple as possible. Any build that requires a little thought, the heroes will stuff up.
Stuff like Zealous Benediction will drain the monks energy because they have no idea how to use it. WoH is a better choice because there's less consequences to the AI using it poorly.

Just my 2 cents but I find the heroes aren't the best at using RoF.. And they have a little trouble getting Boon Prot right with managing their energy.

My monk setup is one monk with Healer's Boon and Etheral light + Orison. My other monk runs a Light of Deliverence build. LoD is a very interesting skill and is invaluable in area where there is alot of damage being thrown around. In the right circumstances it is arguable the most energy efficient spell for the monk.