Curse

Snow Bunny · Jul 09, 2007, 04:54 PM // 16:54

Armor vs. warrior attacks. I am a fairly seasoned player, I am comfortable in that, but I have never gotten around to playing/making a warrior. I started out as a monk, and because of Wammos and the like, I have acquired a significant distaste for the warrior profession. Now, I'm in the midst of making one (lvl 14, 15k glad's, Divinity Coast mish), and I'm seriously questioning the potential of a warrior. Sure, they are meant to be the 'tank', but honestly, an elementalist can be imposed over a warrior in that regard, or any sufficiently protted character, but I am curious about the damage output. I have a 5 in Wilderness survival, and a 9 in swordsmanship, and a 6 in strength. I am currently using a Sundering Shinobi Blade of Defence (q9 15^50, 20/20 +5D), but my damage numbers appear to be pretty low. I mean sure, fighting Fire imps in kryta, my average hit is roughly 30, but that's like lvl 40AL. Against lvl 16's and up, my damage turns into 16 and under. I have a fully modded Assassin and Dervish and Ranger, so I understand the difference between physical damage and spell/elemental/shadow damage. And I apologize to ask a question I'm sure has been asked, but what is with the low damage output? Because if the only answer to that is that the warrior is meant to be the tank, that's insufficient to make it such a popular class. I'm only making this warrior to make it look good in armor and to GvG a bit with it, but I'm not currently in favor of its damage output. Any help/feedback/CONSTRUCTIVE criticism would be very much appreciated.
~~

farmpig · Jul 09, 2007, 04:59 PM // 16:59

I have 16 to weapon mastery all time. Get to level 20 and u will notice the difference.

Snow Bunny · Jul 09, 2007, 05:13 PM // 17:13

16 in weapon mastery? Eh....that's a bit zealous for me. I remember the difference from 9-16 mastery for a scythe was roughly 7-9....I'm not quite sure that the sacrifice of an entire attribute line is worth it. I've been told by numerous warriors that mastery should never exceed 11 or 12, simply b/c of the need for strength and tactics....I don't think 16 is the answer

isamu kurosawa · Jul 09, 2007, 05:20 PM // 17:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

16 in weapon mastery? Eh....that's a bit zealous for me. I remember the difference from 9-16 mastery for a scythe was roughly 7-9....I'm not quite sure that the sacrifice of an entire attribute line is worth it. I've been told by numerous warriors that mastery should never exceed 11 or 12, simply b/c of the need for strength and tactics....I don't think 16 is the answer

Then whoever told you that doesn't know what they are talking about. Wa\rriors deal large amount of damage as long as you use high mastery as well as skills. Basic attacks wont get you anywhere.

Also sundering isn't the way to go, especially not if you where using a sword.

Pick Me · Jul 09, 2007, 05:57 PM // 17:57

Absolute minimum for a weapon attribute is 12

This will allow for max damage from your weapon.

Using a sword - sever artery + gash = damage. You may not see much damage come out, but bleeding + deep wounds (the true damage) shows nicely on a health bar.

What skills are you using out of Wilderness Survival?

Apply Poison + Cyclone Axe is good.

Many people will say that Axes are better than swords, but since you're in Kryta, Swords are fine.

Look at Final Thrust, you will see the potential in damage.

Good luck!

samcobra · Jul 09, 2007, 06:27 PM // 18:27

Quote:

warrior is meant to be a tank

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO

Warriors deal damage. They're are the largest DPSers in the game. If you think as a monk that you're not seeing warriors do damage, go to RA or something and face some good warriors. Seriously, if you want, message me in game and I'll beat on your ass with a warrior. They're there to do damage. A single monk without any small prot or self-protection stances will not last long against a warrior. That is why 80% of this game is based around shutting down warriors, because they are RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing amazing damage and if you're not taking advantage of that, then you're stupid. They're not tanks. they're there to kill shit. I'm sick of thick-headed pve idiots thinking differently of it.

LouAl · Jul 09, 2007, 06:41 PM // 18:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by samcobra

If you think as a monk that you're not seeing warriors do damage, go to RA or something and face some good warriors.

RA...good warriors...are you serious?

that just seems

Quote:

Originally Posted by samcobra

...thick-headed...

if you ask me

Snow Bunny · Jul 09, 2007, 07:17 PM // 19:17

GG. Wow. Eh...for the record...
Pick Me your feedback was nice. Yes, I am using apply poison and troll unguent. I like TU over Healing Sig, and i find that AP + Svr Art + Gash is some nice condition pressure.

As for Sam Cobra -
you and your foolish gung-ho philosophy are the reason I dislike warriors. Largest DPS's in the game? An assassin, dervish, elementalist, and necromancer all void that. 80% of the game is based around shutting down CASTERS - i.e., monks. Warriors are always last priority on a kill list because a. they have heavy armor b. don't do much damage

I am corrected, 12 is what is preferable. I have since made a pvp warrior with 12, and experimented with higher...he does noticeably more damage, but still with perfect weapons and skills it leaves something to be desired. Aw well.

isamu kurosawa · Jul 09, 2007, 07:36 PM // 19:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

Largest DPS's in the game? An assassin, dervish, elementalist, and necromancer all void that. 80% of the game is based around shutting down CASTERS - i.e., monks. Warriors are always last priority on a kill list because a. they have heavy armor b. don't do much damage

Warriors do have one of the highest average DPS in the game and although in PvE casters are the main thing to worry about, in PvP which is what he was referring to, warriors are the largewst threat, hence why anti melee is so popular.

Shendaar · Jul 09, 2007, 07:47 PM // 19:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

As for Sam Cobra -
you and your foolish gung-ho philosophy are the reason I dislike warriors. Largest DPS's in the game? An assassin, dervish, elementalist, and necromancer all void that. 80% of the game is based around shutting down CASTERS - i.e., monks. Warriors are always last priority on a kill list because a. they have heavy armor b. don't do much damage

Wrong. Switch to axe as soon as you can(better for PvE because some monsters don't bleed and some can't be KD). Put 12 in axe with a axe head gear and a minor axe. put 9+1 in tactic, same for strength(or lower one to 9 and bump the other to 11). Grab Healing signet, frenzy and a cancel stance like Rush. Then all you have to do is use a good combo, ie Evis->Executionner->Agonizing. Dont forget rez sig or a hard rez if you go /mo and fill the last skill slot with Distracting Blow.

There you have it ... a warrior that deals damage.

FoxBat · Jul 09, 2007, 08:01 PM // 20:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by samcobra

I'm sick of thick-headed pve idiots thinking differently of it.

Splinter-Barrage, Searing Flames, MMs, even Summon Spirit Spammers far out DPS your typical PvP warrior build in PvE locales with large numbers of enemies, and yeah I'd take a Death Blossom spammer against lvl 28+ mobs too. Mobs don't know how to spread out, they can still be fooled into aggroing onto a warrior, and there aren't any decent monks that you need to adrenal spike against. Do Wars really need to be running stances and +armor through 80% of the game, no, but there are places where it works, and a few where it's either do that, bring an MM and pets, or die.

Frenzy->evis-exec is pointless in PvE. Just flail, battle rage, warriors endurance , cyclone axe or whatever around the place and dump skills on recharge. DPS is all that matters.

isamu kurosawa · Jul 09, 2007, 08:02 PM // 20:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shendaar

Wrong. Switch to axe as soon as you can(better for PvE because some monsters don't bleed and some can't be KD). Put 12 in axe with a axe head gear and a minor axe. put 9+1 in tactic, same for strength(or lower one to 9 and bump the other to 11). Grab Healing signet, frenzy and a cancel stance like Rush. Then all you have to do is use a good combo, ie Evis->Executionner->Agonizing. Dont forget rez sig or a hard rez if you go /mo and fill the last skill slot with Distracting Blow.

There you have it ... a warrior that deals damage.

Or replace frenzy/rush with enraging+flail

Snow Bunny · Jul 09, 2007, 08:08 PM // 20:08

A Rit Spiker will out DPS a warrior easily...
you should see those lvl 10 rit spikers in ascalon arena....they are scary man

Cathode_Reborn · Jul 09, 2007, 08:14 PM // 20:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

...and a 9 in swordsmanship...

You honestly can't expect to even deal damage with such low swordsmanship. I'm surprised no one even asked for your build. Post what you have cause that's what's gonna make you do high damage. Customizing your weapon is extremely important too....the damage it adds is comparable to 20/20 sundering on every hit. You've basically turned into what you hate. Why do we laugh at the majority of warriors in pvp? Because their weapon mastery is usually so low that they become harmless jokes. Pve is so easy....there's not reason not to have 16 weapon mastery.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

Sure, they are meant to be the 'tank', but honestly, an elementalist can be imposed over a warrior in that regard, or any sufficiently protted character, but I am curious about the damage output.

The majority of the pve community is doomed to be forever ignorant of some parts of the game. Guild Wars has been around for so long and still, henching/heroing missions is the best way to go because of the lack of skill/knowledge in the average pve player. By thinking warriors are only effective as tanks you're kinda putting yourself in this group. At the same time it almost seems that you wanna believe that warrior's arn't capable of high damage. In pve, an ele can easily outdamage a warrior without a doubt but then again they can outdamage most other classes...does that make the rest inferior? Of course not. The keyword is "can". When targets don't bunch up, the aoe fire spells of an ele become very ineffective especially as enemy armor later in the game goes up. It's a good idea to have at least 1 melee in your party because against a single target, any melee prof with a good build will out damage an ele. Even a nec with the right hexes can.

I like my warrior but I won't bring the "they have the highest DPS" thing. That really applies only to some high-end pvp where fights are very long and you have no time to stop and rest, unlike pve.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

I've been told by numerous warriors that mastery should never exceed 11 or 12, simply b/c of the need for strength and tactics....I don't think 16 is the answer

I absolutely guarantee you that the people who told you that play horrible warriors. Again as I said, the majority of the pve community will always be stupid and ignorant. As you gain more knowledge of the game you'll start to see this. The lowest a warrior would ever go is 13 and that's only for high-end organized pvp. But this is pve so why wouldn't you go 15-16? What I don't understand is you say that your warrior's damage is low, yet you seem to refuse to higher your weapon mastery. You can't expect to be a good warrior if all your points are in strength and tactics.

SOTY731 · Jul 09, 2007, 08:17 PM // 20:17

ok with all these people arguing about warrior dps being "low" compared to caster/assassin/etc. i think they might just be running the wrong builds, but i mainly tank on my warrior so i might be wrong.

example of what im talking about is when i tried to tell an idiot fow group i was in that i could tank myself and we didnt need 2 warriors but the other warrior insisted that we did and the group listened, so i decided to go with a damage warrior build (something i was trying out because it wasnt a serious group or anything).
i dont remember everything i used but it was something like flail, enraging, dragon slash, sun/moon slash, galrath slash, FGJ, a res and something else, maybe smite hex or something...
i did pretty good damage spamming attack skills and keeping flail up (sometimes 80+ with dragonslash if i remember correctly)

so if i'm doing this much damage to lvl 24+ enemies in fow with a build i just threw together in a few minutes... then what the hell are people whining about with warrior damage output?

Snow Bunny · Jul 09, 2007, 08:20 PM // 20:20

I'm not refusing to bump up my weapon mastery. She's a lvl 14 warrior...so it's a bit hard to get her mastery up above 12 at this point.
I apologize for asking a question on a topic I know very little about.

Coloneh · Jul 09, 2007, 08:27 PM // 20:27

your last post made the main point that needs to be stated: your lvl 14. characters dont function as they are meant to until lvl 20/200 atribs. Level your warrior up before you judge it.

BDZeres · Jul 09, 2007, 08:30 PM // 20:30

Try this build in PvE:
12 (Go ahead and put 16 in swords IMO, your armor makes up for the lower health) Sword 9 in element of your choice (for conjure) Rest in Strength (ideally you will have a minor rune of strength as well).
Flail
Sever (Silverwing)
Gash (Galarath)
Dragon Slash {Elite}
Sun & Moon
Rush
Conjure X
Res Sig (For Great Justice).

^ this will make anything cry. If you are H/H'ing or soloing I would recommend taking FGJ over a sig, but always a sig if with a pug.

Cathode_Reborn · Jul 09, 2007, 08:36 PM // 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

I'm not refusing to bump up my weapon mastery. She's a lvl 14 warrior...so it's a bit hard to get her mastery up above 12 at this point.
I apologize for asking a question on a topic I know very little about.

You did say you don't think 16 mastery is the answer

You won't actually be doing high damage till you're lvl20 with the right skills and equipment. Any 15%dmg customized weapon is good. Sundering is actually pretty weak on a sword so you want vamp or furious. I hope you didn't buy and put that 20/20 on your sword thinking it was actually helpful

You still haven't posted your build....or at least post what you plan on using. Having all 3 chapters is very important too cause you need skills from each one. That applies to every profession.

Reverend Dr · Jul 09, 2007, 08:36 PM // 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

I'm only making this warrior to make it look good in armor and to GvG a bit with it, but I'm not currently in favor of its damage output.

Until you embrace the warrior as one of the highest sustainable dps classes, then you will never be more than a lowsey, not even mediocre, warrior in GvG.

As a warrior you must have an IAS. Frenzy says it increases attack speed by 33%, but it actually reduces time between attacks by 33% which actually doubles the number of swings you get in. You IAS just doubled you damage output. Play under an IAS for a bit and you will also start loving adrenal skills far more than energy based skills, as well you should.

I stick with frenzy and a switch stance. Some people say flail, but I hate flail. More than half of my time in pve is spent moving from the mob I just killed to the mob I am about to kill and flail will slow down your dps in that respect. Flail/Rush works alright, but I notice a strong drop in total adrenaline gained so I don't like it. The only times I question bringing frenzy are when there are a ton of afflicted or in the domain of pain.

Usual pve build I run for a warrior, the only place this hasn't worked is domain of anguish
4 attack skills, at least two, normally 3 adrenal
frenzy
switch stance (sprint, rush, enraging charge, tigers stance, dash, pious haste, disciplined stance, etc)
utility slot/Capture sig
Rez sig