Curse

Slappywag · Jul 03, 2007, 03:56 AM // 03:56

In prep for the GW expansion and GW 2, I'm going to run through all the campaigns on my Dervish.

So, I'm planning to do it with 2 monk heroes and an MM. I've got basically every necro and monk skill I could possibly want, so I'm just wondering what you think would be a good build for the 2 monks and MM.

I've been experimenting with LoD, 2 monks running LoD seems to work very well. As for the MM he's not working ideally (I catch him with full mana with corpses around and not casting bone fiend regularly). Do other people with MM heroes have to manage their skill casting themselves? I wouldn't think so because on one of the missions someone rage quit, and his MM hero stayed and still spam-casted summons.

SO! I'd love to here any suggestions from anyone about them.

Jacxxmaster · Jul 03, 2007, 03:10 PM // 15:10

I HOPE HOPE HOPE HOPE HOPE you're not using Master of Whispers for your MM. I've never seen a stupider MM in my life. Olias is the way to go, but he still doesn't cast what I want him to. His flesh golem dies and he sits there, and, if I'm lucky, cast another animate spell. I'd just manage his skills. It's not too hard.

Turbobusa · Jul 03, 2007, 04:09 PM // 16:09

maybe because he understands how much golems sucks and want to have higher DPS using fiends

Lurid · Jul 03, 2007, 05:15 PM // 17:15

From my experience all the heroes of the same class are functionally the same, its just their skins that differ.

A build that my MM uses for Minion Bombing:

Jagged Bones
Animate Bone Minions
Death Nova
Blood of the Master
Feast for the Undead / Taste of Death
Signet of Lost Souls
Leech Signet / Power Drain
Resurrection Signet

IMO that build works better (On heroes) than any build (atleast that i've tried) simply because in harder areas of the game minions can be wiped out very quickly, depleting energy very quickly in order to re-summon them, especially after the update to Soul Reaping. However with this build minions, even in areas of low corpses, are very plentiful and not only cause damage from attacks, and from their deaths. While providing (imo) the minions most useful function of meat shielding everyone else.

Also...hero monks are generally horrible, even with the simplest of builds. The only build that i've been able to make that either uses to any extent is so underpowered that they can't heal efficiently enough to be worthwhile. If you are an offensive character then running with two high DPS (SF Eles) / utility (Motivation Paragon + Ranger) (example configurations) and a MM to meat shield for the rest of the party, generally packs enough punch as to limit the amount of healing necessary. To the point where a prot hench + heal hench can sufficiently heal the party so long as proper precautions such as avoiding over aggro, are taken.

OI-812 · Jul 03, 2007, 05:41 PM // 17:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lurid

From my experience all the heroes of the same class are functionally the same, its just their skins that differ.

A build that my MM uses for Minion Bombing:

Jagged Bones
Animate Bone Minions
Death Nova
Blood of the Master
Feast for the Undead / Taste of Death
Signet of Lost Souls
Leech Signet / Power Drain
Resurrection Signet

Are you telling me that you can get your hero to reliably use [skill]Feast for the dead[/skill] and [skill]Taste of death[/skill] without constant babysitting and handholding?

yarddog · Jul 03, 2007, 06:29 PM // 18:29

my olias's build is this, he has been using very effectively. first of his energy is 62, i use an offhand giving +12/+15/-1 degen. and runs as a N/Mo. he regulary has the max number of minions (10) and energy is not an issue. now for my build:
fiends
minion
jagged minion
OoB {E}
heal area
A Hard Res(resurection chant)
blood of the master
blood ritual

has worked for me since he was available.

FyrFytr998 · Jul 04, 2007, 05:27 AM // 05:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slappywag

In prep for the GW expansion and GW 2, I'm going to run through all the campaigns on my Dervish.

So, I'm planning to do it with 2 monk heroes and an MM. I've got basically every necro and monk skill I could possibly want, so I'm just wondering what you think would be a good build for the 2 monks and MM.

I've been experimenting with LoD, 2 monks running LoD seems to work very well. As for the MM he's not working ideally (I catch him with full mana with corpses around and not casting bone fiend regularly). Do other people with MM heroes have to manage their skill casting themselves? I wouldn't think so because on one of the missions someone rage quit, and his MM hero stayed and still spam-casted summons.

SO! I'd love to here any suggestions from anyone about them.

Seriously dude. Wasting 2 hero slots on monks is a waste. Contrary to popular belief, 2 henchie monks work fine when you have the offensive power to decimate pretty much all enemies in PvE. The only time I've needed monk heros is when they were required for certain NF missions. In Factions and Prophicies I never use monk heros.

The most common set up for people running heros is 2 SF Ele.'s with a MM or 2 MM's with a Paragon Support. Those are your cookie cutter set ups.

Some people mix and match according to play style to use each hero. Or in missions where a certain hero is required. But for general PvE exploring it's the setups described above.

Here's a link to Zinger's thread about hero synergy. I've always found his build set ups pretty decent. Zinger's Thread

Evilsod · Jul 04, 2007, 09:56 AM // 09:56

An MM without Death Nova is an MM not worth taking along...

Marverick · Jul 05, 2007, 01:18 AM // 01:18

An MM with Death Nova = fail. You want to be keeping your minions alive when MM'ing, and Death Nova takes away precious time when you could be animating minions or healing them.......

drupal · Jul 05, 2007, 11:27 AM // 11:27

Yeah, it's pretty stupid to take Death Nova with your MM hero because it would add additional damage and degeneration.

PS: Shambling Horrors + Death Nova is win

Zinger314 · Jul 05, 2007, 05:00 PM // 17:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by drupal

Yeah, it's pretty stupid to take Death Nova with your MM hero because it would add additional damage and degeneration.

PS: Shambling Horrors + Death Nova is win

It takes 2 Seconds to Cast Death Nova. It takes 2.25 seconds to make a minion. I know which one I want to devote my time to..

Also, Death Nova only triggers if the minion dies. That's actually pretty uncommon, since the Heroes are pretty good at minion upkeep. (not as good as a Human, but still.)

Lurid · Jul 08, 2007, 10:01 PM // 22:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

It takes 2 Seconds to Cast Death Nova. It takes 2.25 seconds to make a minion. I know which one I want to devote my time to..

Also, Death Nova only triggers if the minion dies. That's actually pretty uncommon, since the Heroes are pretty good at minion upkeep. (not as good as a Human, but still.)

Quite frankly I would rather have a good MM hero than 90% of the human MMs thats i've come in contact with. Minion bombing works remarkably well, especially if you happen to know every minions HP levels at all times without having to waste time monitoring their health levels. The heroes seem to use Nova and Jagged Bones on any minion near death, making said minion doubly effective. I wouldn't knock minion bombing on a hero until you've tried it.

I can't say with absolute certainty that the hero uses Taste of Death and / or Feast for the Dead as effectively as a human, but they seem to use it occasionally. I haven't been able to monitor their actions at all times, however i'll try to keep a closer eye on that and see if they use it. If not then a suitable replacement is in order.... Its nice though, because with Bone Minions...especially in Hard Mode dieing isn't a problem for them, and every time they die they make new minions and more damage + degen.

Evilsod · Jul 08, 2007, 11:06 PM // 23:06

Yeah because that frequent explosion of 100 damage + poison every so often coming from a minion with extremely good targetting is a huge let down... especially when your MM uses 2 20% HCT mods.

And i don't know what minions your watching but i'm quite sure these level 18 minions die quite often vs lvl24+ enemies, AoE and spike damage...

Funnily enough also most of the explosions come in the first 10 seconds of battle when nothing is even dead yet when your battle hardened, degen ridden minions are targetted first and explode. And since anything that enemies can cast that use up corpses can easily beat the MM to it, especially in HM, i think i'll stick to blowing the crap out of them ASAP.

And seriously... what the hell is the difference between Olias and MoW as an MM? Really, not just some 'ZOMG MoW sucks even though his AI is the same as Olias' crap.

arsie · Jul 23, 2007, 07:30 AM // 07:30

I am curious whether Heroes can run Jagged Bomber on Minions, as opposed to Horrors.

Perhaps synergizing with Razah with (at least) 12 Spawning Power and Boon of Creation or Spirit's Gift.

rick1027 · Jul 23, 2007, 09:15 PM // 21:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

And seriously... what the hell is the difference between Olias and MoW as an MM? Really, not just some 'ZOMG MoW sucks even though his AI is the same as Olias' crap.

actually the only thing i notice is the different color armor and olias butt hangs out. thats why i prefer masters myself

Cebe · Jul 24, 2007, 08:10 AM // 08:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

An MM without Death Nova is an MM not worth taking along...

An MM with Death Nova is an MM who doesn't keep up his minion army.

Death Nova is only really an "ok" skill if there are 2 necros, so at least one can be making minions as often as possible.

Necromonger · Jul 24, 2007, 01:47 PM // 13:47

I will second the opinion that Monk heroes are a waste, IMO no more effective than hencies, my usual setup is Me, +3 Heroes, +2 Monk Henchies, +2 Tank Henchies

That way your heroes are usually, a damage dealer, an interrupter (very important IMO) and either a support character or another damage dealer.

havok019 · Aug 02, 2007, 07:47 PM // 19:47

I'm running:

[card]Jagged Bones[/card][card]Animate Bone Minions[/card][card]Animate Shambling Horror[/card][card]Death Nova[/card][card]Signet of Lost Souls[/card][card]Blood of the Master[/card][card]Dark Bond[/card][card]Signet of Return[/card]

Just recently got Jagged Bones. By far the best elite for MM. I dual play and we're running two Jagged Bones minion bombers and Vizunah Square was a joke. I can minion bomb like crazy and still have enough minions up and running for block. Works well with [card]Gash[/card] for warrior and deep wound.

I've found [card]Dark Bond[/card] is more effective than [card]Taste of Death[/card] for keeping Olias alive. He just didn't seem to cast Taste of Death.

The Paragon res is my current fav because 1: it's a sig that's good for multiple uses and 2) it gives casters energy to start off with when brought back which I feel makes it better than [card]Rebirth[/card] or [card]Resurrect[/card].

Evilsod · Aug 05, 2007, 02:47 AM // 02:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Necromonger

I will second the opinion that Monk heroes are a waste, IMO no more effective than hencies, my usual setup is Me, +3 Heroes, +2 Monk Henchies, +2 Tank Henchies

I would say your doing something wrong if thats the case. Monk heroes far surpass Monk hench. Alesia/Lina have no condition or hex control, but are infact otherwise very good monks. Redemptor Karl and Seaguard Gita have the most god-awful bars in the game, they don't even have Prot Spirit ffs, and they can't use the condition removal they are given properly! Kihm is a prot hench with a direct healing elite (maybe thats why they call her a Healer Henchman in game), but still nothing overly specific.

Heroes on the other hand, Shield of Absorption is 1 of the most powerful skills in the game when your attempting to be the centre of attention so you can kill things quicker (works on my Dervish anyway). Give them decent energy management and they can at least keep going for a good length of time.

But, in most cases the DPS or specific builds on Heroes aid destruction far more than Cynn and her Firestorm ever could. Although i can't deny that the Fire/Earth hench in Nightfall are actually quite effective.

Quote:

An MM with Death Nova is an MM who doesn't keep up his minion army.

Death Nova is only really an "ok" skill if there are 2 necros, so at least one can be making minions as often as possible.

An MM with Death Nova has no problem keeping an army... an MM with Death Nova just makes sure his army goes out with a boom and takes something with it. He does occasionally get a bit carried away and spam it and need a kick up the arse to catch up but thats what flagging is for, plus it helps if your MM stands near the front so the minions rush in at the right time (specifically to bodyblock on top of traps, works like a charm).

Why is it people look at things realistically... until it comes to an MM? There is not an unlimited supply of corpses. MM heroes will quite easily beat a NM MM to a corpse with Bloodstained and HCT mods. Death Nova is cast on things that are near death, usually a good time to make them blow up and take something with it, they then usually animate the corpse... never had any problems with my MM hero keeping a full stock of 10 suicide troops. Infact mine also manages to cast Aegis without losing all his minions in the meantime. And thats in HM. HM, the place where anything that will use a corpse is cast WAY faster than the MM hero can in most cases so it doesn't matter how fast they react... kill the things that use the corpses first.

Since it doesn't seem to be sinking in i'll say it again... i've never had any problems with there been left over corpses at the end of a fight unless lots of things died at the same time. Death Nova takes up that hole between battles which is a good opportunity to make things into walking bombs and fits in nicely when things AREN'T dieing every 2 seconds to be animated. And even if they are... they've mostly been Death Nova'd before hand anyway so they don't need a new 1, so he'll spend his time animating anyway.

MagmaRed · Aug 05, 2007, 03:14 AM // 03:14

[skill]Animate Shambling Horror[/skill][skill]Animate Vampiric Horror[/skill][skill]Animate Bone Fiend[/skill][skill]Animate Flesh Golem[/skill][skill]Blood of the Master[/skill][skill]Heal Area[/skill][skill]Dark Bond[/skill][skill]Death Nova[/skill]

No rez, but the build does well in both Normal and Hard Modes. Death Nova is spammed too much at times, but is very nice for extra damage and degen. I used to monitor Olias all the time, to see how many minions he had, etc. Then I realized he always had 10 minions, provided there were enough corpses. Golem could be replaced with Jagged Bones, but I like having the reusable minion with extra damage and health. Heal Area works well, because he will use it to help heal the team at times, and I rarely see the Monks healing him.