Curse

Melody Cross · Jul 23, 2007, 02:13 PM // 14:13

***SPOILER ALERT***
THIS POST CONTAINS NAMES AND DESCRIPTIONS OF GW:EotN SKILLS.

I’m curious if anyone else has considered what might happen with some of the new skills. RE+Patient Spirit might make an effective 10e chain:

At14 HP and 9 DF (solid PvP LoD and respectable DF) that would be

76 self heal from
23 team heal for Release
27 DF hit to self

with a bar like

Infuse
LoD
RE
RoF
Dismiss (Dark Escape or Aegis with an RC duo and off-monk draw supporting her/him)
Cure Hex/Spotless Mind/Deny
PS
Patient Spirit

It’s unwieldy at first glance, but the RE hit is like a little DF bump to every player on your team. For 127 HP self heal it disperses 184 to your team for 10e. It’s extra healing atop an LoD cast to combat pressure teams more or a backup if someone uses Sig of Humility on you.

Biggest complaint about using Patient Spirit that way is its recycle. You can only cast it on one player a time unless you get a lucky half recycle from your weapon. But most pressure teams like to get some focus on the backline and spread around the team, then hit something when the monks either get into a pattern of self healing or when they are out of energy.

If Aegis is being chained…I still wouldn’t take it, but GW:EN seems to be looking to remove block status from the meta…well, some of the skills do.

Age · Jul 23, 2007, 11:14 PM // 23:14

I haven't to closely at all the EN skills although some look really good especially cure hex.Most Monks aren't the ones chaining Aegis.

The only place for release enchantments is on a bonder if the get stripped.That is if they decided to use it some may not.

Melody Cross · Jul 24, 2007, 01:05 AM // 01:05

Why would RE be good on a Bonder? And who is chaining Aegis if not the monk?

Sry for my confusion but I've been out of hardcore PvP for a few months and, tbh, PvEwise its hard to get offensive players to bring so much as a rez sig.

GGs

Div · Jul 24, 2007, 01:00 PM // 13:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melody Cross

Why would RE be good on a Bonder? And who is chaining Aegis if not the monk?

Sry for my confusion but I've been out of hardcore PvP for a few months and, tbh, PvEwise its hard to get offensive players to bring so much as a rez sig.

GGs

The Ele or necro in the midline and/or the runner may help chain the aegis.

As for your bar above, I'm not sure if infuse is so great in PvE...

Darkpower Alchemist · Jul 24, 2007, 04:13 PM // 16:13

The potential of RE to have a massive heal party effect is there, but the circumstance for it to occur on a more on demand/regular basis isn't. That being the case, I understand the misgivings on the skill being on the bar, since the PvP mindstate is what normally now dominates most threads.

If you can't use a skill/spell in a "productive manner" in PvP, one shouldn't use it, is the concesus way of thinking. Another spell overlooked and/or dismissed completely due to complexity of application.

Snow Bunny · Jul 24, 2007, 06:06 PM // 18:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkpower Alchemist

The potential of RE to have a massive heal party effect is there, but the circumstance for it to occur on a more on demand/regular basis isn't. That being the case, I understand the misgivings on the skill being on the bar, since the PvP mindstate is what normally now dominates most threads.

If you can't use a skill/spell in a "productive manner" in PvP, one shouldn't use it, is the concesus way of thinking. Another spell overlooked and/or dismissed completely due to complexity of application.

Energy wise, it's a waste. Sure, if you were on vent, you could tell your SoD to prot you up for an RE, but then what. He spends at the very least 15 energy on you, and you spend 5 energy, so 20 energy, to perform a party heal that could easily have been done better by the mediocre Heal Party. It's a quaint idea, just seriously unviable when better (economically energy-wise) can be taken. It'd be easy to pull off; it's not too complex, it's just not worth it.

Melody Cross · Jul 24, 2007, 07:39 PM // 19:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkpower Alchemist

The potential of RE to have a massive heal party effect is there, but the circumstance for it to occur on a more on demand/regular basis isn't. That being the case, I understand the misgivings on the skill being on the bar, since the PvP mindstate is what normally now dominates most threads.

If you can't use a skill/spell in a "productive manner" in PvP, one shouldn't use it, is the concesus way of thinking. Another spell overlooked and/or dismissed completely due to complexity of application.

I wouldn't say that is true. Most PvE based builds find there roots in PvP, to be sure, but many PvE builds are no longer used in PvP. A good example is HBoon. It is a rarity in most PvP matches now, but was a fad a while ago. Thats something that has existed since the game came out though. Meaning no disrespect to the PvE community: PvP monking is harder and requires builds that are more efficient. A build that works well or worked well in PvP will work very well in PvE (as long as it is useful for the area you are in) because it has been tested under tougher conditions than AI can supply. Because the builds are proven solid, it falls on player skill to use them properly.

Its not a question of complexity either (well, some of it is, but in PvE at least its a lot easier to run an RE chain than it would be in PvP because there is less chance of an interrupter waiting for you to try so he can shut you down). We are talking about skill efficiency. Its just more efficient to hit LoD when you need it or to use HBoon for a massive heal party than it would be to chain all these enchantment skills on yourself. you're better off using them where you need them (i.e the tank) than you are trying to spam on yourself for your RE AND keep the tank alive.

About infuse: yeah, swap it for a DKiss in PvE, but that was intended to be geared as a PvP anti-pressure.

Darkpower Alchemist · Jul 24, 2007, 08:05 PM // 20:05

I'm not saying chain a bunch of enchantments on myself. What I have stated was that if an individual monk had the skill on their bar,they could essentially recycle already used enchantments for very little cost for a larger benefit than just a couple seconds of non useable enchanting.

The Aegis chain is used in both PvE and PvP, so if the aegis chain is used for example, as the enchantment is wearing off of the group, the monk with RE on his/her bar could use it for a quick party heal. By the time this woul occur, more than likely that same monk would have already been doused with at least a 2nd or even a 3rd enchantment in some cases, making the RE more powerful than any LoD or HP used by another player.

Also, as Racthoh mentioned earlier, it would be hard for a monk to make room for such a plan. Their are just too many "must brings" on the typical solid monk bar. To leave something out may lead to a horrible end, or at least a tough fight.

Div · Jul 25, 2007, 04:49 AM // 04:49

The only way I see it working is if an aegis is running out and you cast patient spirit on yourself then release them. Even then it's not that great.

Turbobusa · Jul 25, 2007, 09:51 AM // 09:51

sub par heal party with a big skill slot investment to do to make it a bit viable.
highly inferior to a heal party dervish
That's why i dont use it.

Age · Jul 26, 2007, 10:49 PM // 22:49

You can use infuse in PvE as you get it very early in post and then yes use breeze to heal yourself up.

To Melody

I agree with you in most part with builds in PvP as apposed to PvE but it all depends on who you are playing with.In PvP in a say gvg with voice comms make it much easier then say guessing or typing it out.The Elite areas puts some pressure on a PvE Monk as well as certian missions.This is where you need a very good build and a good Monk as I stilll see lvl 20s in the Gate of Madness with breeze on.I have been using the LoD Stanced Infuser although I replaced it with gift of health and it works good.I have even with no res on my bar.I will agree with you on that about builds as PvP builds work in PvE.

I don't see any place in PvE or PvP where you would use release enchantments it like a lot of Monk skills.

Darkpower Alchemist · Jul 31, 2007, 02:41 PM // 14:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

Energy wise, it's a waste. Sure, if you were on vent, you could tell your SoD to prot you up for an RE, but then what. He spends at the very least 15 energy on you, and you spend 5 energy, so 20 energy, to perform a party heal that could easily have been done better by the mediocre Heal Party. It's a quaint idea, just seriously unviable when better (economically energy-wise) can be taken. It'd be easy to pull off; it's not too complex, it's just not worth it.

This is an argument I take rather seriously. To claim that a skill is an unviable waste of energy says alot. And I would tend to disagree with this statement, as it is more opinion than fact.

[skill=big]Heal Party[/skill]

At 15 energy and 2s to cast, this is more about being out of the line of sight of a solid interupter than it being totally more effective. Also, as Healing Prayers has fallen out of favor, would the primary monk be carrying this spell anymore on a regular basis?

[skill=big]Light of Deliverance[/skill]

To be quite frank, this is just an elite version of Heal Party. Not saying that's bad, but to make out like it is the best thing since sliced bread isn't exactly being fair and unbiased. The energy cost and casting/recharge times are awesome for the no energy management having monks who are forced to use their secondaries to run any/all bars of reference or valid use. However, once again, this makes a Healing Monk build to have to needed in order to make this 1 skill usefull. An infuser with this on its bar makes it worth while, I imagine.

[skill=big]Release Enchantments[/skill]

This, however, isn't a waste of energy in any case you can make against it. For the equivalent amount of energy and recharge of the valued elite, LoD, it gives a great partywide heal from the DF line, which every monk invests in but hardly ever uses a skill from. I'm not saying it's a replacement, but it certainly is useable and not anywhere near a "waste". Let's not get so caught up in what you are most comfortable with, so as to denounce the usefulness of something you are not familiar or comfortable with. I don't say it's the greatest, but I can say it is effective when applied properly.

Snow Bunny · Jul 31, 2007, 05:50 PM // 17:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkpower Alchemist

This is an argument I take rather seriously. To claim that a skill is an unviable waste of energy says alot. And I would tend to disagree with this statement, as it is more opinion than fact.

At 15 energy and 2s to cast, this is more about being out of the line of sight of a solid interupter than it being totally more effective. Also, as Healing Prayers has fallen out of favor, would the primary monk be carrying this spell anymore on a regular basis?

To be quite frank, this is just an elite version of Heal Party. Not saying that's bad, but to make out like it is the best thing since sliced bread isn't exactly being fair and unbiased. The energy cost and casting/recharge times are awesome for the no energy management having monks who are forced to use their secondaries to run any/all bars of reference or valid use. However, once again, this makes a Healing Monk build to have to needed in order to make this 1 skill usefull. An infuser with this on its bar makes it worth while, I imagine.

This, however, isn't a waste of energy in any case you can make against it. For the equivalent amount of energy and recharge of the valued elite, LoD, it gives a great partywide heal from the DF line, which every monk invests in but hardly ever uses a skill from. I'm not saying it's a replacement, but it certainly is useable and not anywhere near a "waste". Let's not get so caught up in what you are most comfortable with, so as to denounce the usefulness of something you are not familiar or comfortable with. I don't say it's the greatest, but I can say it is effective when applied properly.

It's a waste of energy. It's not just my opinion, it's the math. You honestly, except in cookie-cutter builds like Urgoz/Deep/DoA do not need more than 1 party heal in a monk. LoD just works really well, being semi-spammable and costing 5 energy.
In pvp, Aegis is often chained. It's chained so that it's more effective. Sure, RE only costs 5e. But to get good healing out of it, you have to invest at least 15e. i actually tried to use RE the other day. It doesn't work well at all, with consideration to the energy required.
Stop trying to defend this skill....there's a very good reason it's not used.

Bloodied Blade · Aug 02, 2007, 02:53 AM // 02:53

I have to agree with Snow Bunny here. RE really is a waste of energy due to how much you have to spend in order to get a decent amount of healing from it.

RE is cheap, but despite being cheap, it doesn't justify the 15+ energy needed to get a noticeable effect out of it.

OS T · Aug 17, 2007, 11:38 AM // 11:38

ye.re is waste of skill in the bar,I always use pure healing and pure prot so I dont mix up heal and prot,since thats gonna be more effective..and guys dont even think about taking healing breeze,its so bad,I agree, COP can be good in skill bar,have only used it in the old boon prot in pvp before they nerfed MOR and some toher..

I think All protters should bring aegis and rebirth and gole,atleast all monk should have ressurect,not ress sig..im talking in pve now ofc..

Zodiak · Aug 17, 2007, 03:56 PM // 15:56

BLARGGFLJCLJGLJGADNC'NSCKHD!!!!

"yum cookies"

didnt even notice it was under Divine Favor

Stormlord Alex · Aug 17, 2007, 04:00 PM // 16:00

Zodiak... Uh...
Release Enchantments at 0 Divine only heals for 5 per enchant...
Do you want a cookie?

Zodiak · Aug 17, 2007, 04:32 PM // 16:32

Fine :P

Monk/X

16 Divine Favor
12 Healing Prayers
X Protection Prayers

[skill]Vigorous Spirit[/skill][skill]Restful Breeze[/skill][skill]Watchful Healing[/skill][skill]Shield of absorption[/skill][skill]Release Enchantments[/skill][skill]Glyph of Renewal[/skill][skill]Divine Spirit[/skill][skill]Renew Life[/skill]

4 x 37 Health (at 16 divine favor) = 148 Health for every player
8 x 148 = 1184 Health over 8 Party Members
1184 Health + 126 Health(health from Watchful Healing ending prematurely)
= GRAND TOTAL heal of 1310 for 10 energy

Not to Mention that I dont even KNOW if the Divine Prayers Bonus kicks in for every player or not

The Glyph of Renewal + Divine Spirit combo can be maintained to reduce the spells to 1 energy cost, I do it all the time except with Selfless Spirit to reduce energy cost to 0 with another build.

Sustainable mass party heal build

Glyph of Renewal>Divine Spirit

Vigorous Spirit>Shielding Hands>Restful Breeze>Watchful Healing>Release Enchantments, Glyph of Renewal is recharged by then, repeate as needed. This skill chain just cost you 5 energy to execute

Cookie now plz?

Faena · Aug 23, 2007, 08:03 AM // 08:03

So you would completly waste your bar to be able to do a single thing ? you need 9.75 seconds to cast your only useful spell. Sure it is a Huge group heal, but do you really think your team would be much safer if you were able to keep casting normal heals/prot on it ? And all this is still ignoring the fact that it is a chain of 5 1second cast spells, that can be easily interrupted (not viable in PvP, and even in PvE you don't know what will happen).

On the other hand, LoD is a one skill slot. It allows the caster to have a lot of versatility.
Monks need to be able to quickly forecast or react to foes actions. Being bound to cast a tedious chain of spells is not what any monks should do. It would just mean the death of your whole team.

Your build may work on a low level area where mobs deal low slow damage, but in any high level areas, you will just be useless.

Oh, and by the way I don't understand how a 148 health for whole groupe every 15 seconds (glyph recast) with a 10 seconds casting time can seem appealing to anyone ? It is basically 2 LoD ...

Explanation on the number of seconds :
5 x 1second + 0,25second + 6 x 0,75second (aftercast) = 9.75

Oh and maybe bring SH in spite of SoA, faster cast time.

ender6 · Aug 23, 2007, 07:41 PM // 19:41

RE as it currently stands is gimmickie at best. A waste of energy, a waste of a skill slot, inefficient overall. I'm shocked to see that someone (rather anyone) considers this an amazing skill. I suppose to each their own.

If RE was altered to give the health bonus as enchants expired for a cetain duration of time it would be a worthy skill to consider. Sort of like the Paragon skill finale resotration.

my .02