Curse

Faer · Oct 29, 2007, 10:40 AM // 10:40

[skill]Light of Deliverance[/skill][skill]Signet of Rejuvenation[/skill][skill]Dwayna's Kiss[/skill][skill]Protective Spirit[/skill][skill]Aegis[/skill][skill]Glyph of Lesser Energy[/skill][skill]Holy Veil[/skill][skill]Shield of Absorption[/skill]

Other than farming, I run that bar pretty much everywhere, from Istan to the Domain of Anguish (though I swap to a bar with less enchantment use for Mallyx). The only time I run something entirely different is when I want to run SoD or RC. However, in those cases, my partner monk is usually running the above bar (possibly swapping Holy Veil for Remove Hex or Cure Hex, depending on their preferences and the area).

elektra_lucia · Oct 29, 2007, 10:49 AM // 10:49

I like prot spirit on a healer because it lasts a long while with low attributes in prot.

Quote:

Signet of Devotion is at its very core a straight heal.

You could get this same effect by putting points into Healing Prayers and grabbing Gift of Health or Signet of Rejuvination, but slotting 2 attributes over 3 makes me much happier.

It's also a signet, which means that effects that target your spellcasting (Mark of Subversion is very common in PvE, for example) are ineffective.

I like the flexibility Signet of Devotion provides, and I've always been the skill's only fan.

It's terrible.

Grenths Entropy · Oct 29, 2007, 11:10 AM // 11:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

It's terrible.

It is not terrible at all, just i dont think its suitable for a Healing Monk

Stormlord Alex · Oct 29, 2007, 11:17 AM // 11:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grenths Entropy

It is not terrible at all, just i dont think its suitable for a Healing Monk

It's terrible.
It's a really weak heal with a 2 second casting time, and it doesn't even get a DF buff.
As a monk, I don't wanna waste 2 seconds in the heat of combat to push a red bar up by a pathetic amount.

the_jos · Oct 29, 2007, 12:19 PM // 12:19

I don't know what the original content of the first post was (now it's just a couple of skills) but some general advice from me:

There are two ways to play monk and both require a different kind of play.
The first way is pumping the red bars up again (aka healing).
The second way is preventing the red bars to go down (aka protection).
Both have a role in the game.

I prefer using protection, however, this is because I hardly monk in Normal Mode. And even less in pick-up groups.

The main difference between protection and healing is that protection requires you to focus on what is going to happen, where healing requires you to focus on what just happened.
When you just started, it's easier to pump red bars that went down up again than to determine who will get hit.

I think the best advice I can give is to learn to see what is happening on the playing field, not only staring at the the red bars.
Being able to predict who is going to get hit (try this with heroes if you have them) will give you a huge advantage, both healing and protecting.

bungusmaximus · Oct 29, 2007, 12:32 PM // 12:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_jos

The main difference between protection and healing is that protection requires you to focus on what is going to happen, where healing requires you to focus on what just happened.

Depends on how you play, under ideal circumstances I like to minimize the time that health bars aren't full, so it's perfectly possible to pre-cast a 1 sec cast heal when I see a hard hit coming. If you know there is a fire storm on the way it is wise to know when to hit LoD, time it wrong and it might only heal 2 people where it also could have healed 5. Of course pushing bars up works, but it might not be as efficient as actually healing with your brain.

Grenths Entropy · Oct 29, 2007, 12:41 PM // 12:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

It's terrible.
It's a really weak heal with a 2 second casting time, and it doesn't even get a DF buff.
As a monk, I don't wanna waste 2 seconds in the heat of combat to push a red bar up by a pathetic amount.

I am sorry but WHO would use this for a heal only? Like i said before its main purpose is to fuel Deny Hexes. A build with just sig of devotion is just stupid.
Its a skill for a prot monk not healing, and if u pre-prot well there is no heat in a battle and u have enough time to fuel deny to get rid of a hexed up ally.
But everyone has their opinion. and this is mine

Stormlord Alex · Oct 29, 2007, 01:11 PM // 13:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grenths Entropy

I am sorry but WHO would use this for a heal only? Like i said before its main purpose is to fuel Deny Hexes. A build with just sig of devotion is just stupid.

It's pretty terrible for that. Spending 2 seconds casting a useless skill every 7 just to get Deny on 2 hexes removed?

Divine Spirit is what you need. It even does something while it's up.

Avarre · Oct 29, 2007, 01:14 PM // 13:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grenths Entropy

I am sorry but WHO would use this for a heal only? Like i said before its main purpose is to fuel Deny Hexes. A build with just sig of devotion is just stupid.
Its a skill for a prot monk not healing, and if u pre-prot well there is no heat in a battle and u have enough time to fuel deny to get rid of a hexed up ally.
But everyone has their opinion. and this is mine

Why would you run a terrible skill to fuel another weak skill?

Why would you assume that you have the time to spend 2+ seconds preparing your deny hexes, while the hex that actually matters is heavily covered?

If you really want Deny, Divine Spirit is the way to go.

Simath · Oct 29, 2007, 01:42 PM // 13:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

If you're going hybrid... sure.
Then again, Light of Deliverance, despite its awesomeness, tends not to be recharged 100% of the time... and a Monk with both LoD and Heal Party can keep the party red-bars up from half a compass away. Not usually essential... but I found it VERY handy in Eternal Grove when we had to split the teams. The only real draw-back is the cost, since Monks need to go into their secondary class for energy management.

Yes, we've already determined Heal Party spam is the most effective way to monk. Oh wait....no it isn't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

Then again... I use herohench. They tend to cluster together in AoE nuker-spam and need major group-healing to stop them all snuffing it.

Learn to flag you heroes maybe?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grenths Entropy

I am sorry but WHO would use this for a heal only? Like i said before its main purpose is to fuel Deny Hexes. A build with just sig of devotion is just stupid.
Its a skill for a prot monk not healing, and if u pre-prot well there is no heat in a battle and u have enough time to fuel deny to get rid of a hexed up ally.
But everyone has their opinion. and this is mine

I know I like to take my sweet time to cast SoD to fuel Deny when there are spells such as Migraine, Panic, Backfire, and the likes on me. No need to rush I like seeing anti-caster skills on my effects monitor.

bryann380 · Oct 29, 2007, 02:27 PM // 14:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grenths Entropy

IMO a monk shouldnt bring a res, since your job is to keep People alive and not res them

I can't stand it when people say this. There may be times where foes do more damage than you can heal/protect and teammates die anyway. This is the point I was trying to make in another topic. And in situations where everyone but the monk(s) is dead, personally I'd want the monk(s) to bring the others back so they can continue the mission/quest with a small amount of DP. Killing monsters will slowly remove the DP anyway.

That's the problem a lot of players have in PvE. They think if most of the team dies just once, the mission/quest is an automatic failure... but that's a different subject for another time.

Back on topic, I strongly suggest monks in PvE should always bring a rez, especially for the example I gave above. It is possible to heal or protect with 7 skills instead of 8. My monk uses 7 all the time and does a great job at it too.

SotiCoto · Oct 29, 2007, 02:33 PM // 14:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simath

Yes, we've already determined Heal Party spam is the most effective way to monk. Oh wait....no it isn't.

Some people amaze me with their ability to say absolutely nothing and yet still convey it in words.
If you have a criticism to make then make it and stop beating about the bush. Heal Party isn't ideal (thanks to the energy cost), but it isn't worthless either. Your counter?

Quote:

Learn to flag you heroes maybe?

Do I look like a full 8-team management machine to you?
I flag the heroes... they cluster in a new spot... the nukers redirect slightly to one side or other and we're back to plan A. If I'm spending the time pratting around with all four individual flags then I'm not using my own build and we're essentially dealing with a 7-HH party.
So what do YOU do besides dish out hollow sarcasm?

Simath · Oct 29, 2007, 02:39 PM // 14:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

Some people amaze me with their ability to say absolutely nothing and yet still convey it in words.
If you have a criticism to make then make it and stop beating about the bush. Heal Party isn't ideal (thanks to the energy cost), but it isn't worthless either. Your counter?

Fair enough. My criticism? Here it is with no beating around the bush. Your bad at GW's.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

Do I look like a full 8-team management machine to you?
I flag the heroes... they cluster in a new spot... the nukers redirect slightly to one side or other and we're back to plan A. If I'm spending the time pratting around with all four individual flags then I'm not using my own build and we're essentially dealing with a 7-HH party.
So what do YOU do besides dish out hollow sarcasm?

I micromanage my heroes while you fail. That's what I do. That and laugh at you.

elektra_lucia · Oct 29, 2007, 02:50 PM // 14:50

You don't really need to micromanage heroes in PVE 99% of the time, to be fair.

Chthon · Oct 29, 2007, 04:28 PM // 16:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grenths Entropy

I can only partially agree with you here again. In NM PvE Healing is probably a better choice at least for most of it. But in HM Prot > healing. The eles hit for 200 dmg, and with the IAS of all foes skills like SoA and guardian are a huge pressure relief on the monks

I think you're generally pretty close to correct here. I think the overall damage signature for a large chunk of HM is still at a point where heal is more efficient, but almost all of it has big enough spiky patches that prot becomes very, very important, even for the parts where it's less efficient. And then there's a large another chunk of HM, quite possibly a majority, where prot is simply more efficient.

Anywho, the thrust of my comment was that we shouldn't be telling Mr. Just-Started-Monking-Want-Advice that "prot >>> heal" and he should be using this or that prot bar or even this or that hybrid bar when he's very, very far away from the point when that becomes true.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Oh dear. I could spend time picking this apart, but really... if you don't understand why certain things are better, and haven't actually examined them, just don't pretend you do?

Avarre, I think you know which category I consider you to be in. But since you've extended me the courtesy of only insulting me a little, I'll do the same for you.

Spazzer · Oct 29, 2007, 08:18 PM // 20:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

It's terrible.
It's a really weak heal with a 2 second casting time, and it doesn't even get a DF buff.
As a monk, I don't wanna waste 2 seconds in the heat of combat to push a red bar up by a pathetic amount.

This conversation will go nowhere. I already covered the pros and cons of signet of devotion as well as the strategies to circumvent them (see page 1).

Don't take trollbait. If you want to start a new thread about Signet of Devotion, go right ahead--but there's not much to discuss about.

Why does every thread turn into people quoting SotiCoto and turning them into flamefests?

elektra_lucia · Oct 29, 2007, 08:28 PM // 20:28

There is no strategy to cover the fact that Sig of dev is a bad skill. If you think it is good, you are no different than a heal breeze user.

Spazzer · Oct 29, 2007, 08:38 PM // 20:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by elektra_lucia

There is no strategy to cover the fact that Sig of dev is a bad skill. If you think it is good, you are no different than a heal breeze user.

Bind a key to cancel action, and there's no excuse in the world not to use it. Like I said, start a thread.

ShadowbaneX · Oct 29, 2007, 08:52 PM // 20:52

In GW:EN usually bring one healer (Dunkoro) and one Prot (Lina) for average (normal mode) adventuring. In most other areas I bring Ogden with a ZB Prot build and whichever hero. When I'm actually playing my monk I go heal and bring Tahlkora as SoR Prot. I don't play Hard Mode much, or when I do it's with other players so they've got their own bars.

My Monk:
Healing (12+3+1) DF (12+1)
[skill]Dwayna's Kiss[/skill][skill]Heal Other[/skill][skill]Heal Party[/skill][skill]Healer's Boon[/skill][skill]Glyph of Lesser Energy[/skill][skill]Divine Spirit[/skill][skill]Cure Hex[/skill][skill]Restore Life[/skill]

Not the best bar, but when you heal, you heal fast and big. I've found that by far my favourite Healing Prayer Elite is Healer's Boon. Light of Deliverance is nice, as is Word of Healing, but their non-elite counter-parts, Heal Party and Heal Other are just as good as they are while under the effect of Healer's Boon. For 15 energy you can cast GoLE, HP x2 healing your entire party for 252 health in 5 seconds, whereas LoD can heal everyone under 80% health for 85 in the same time span. Granted, 3 times as much energy, but I also just healed for 3 times as much. Samething for WoH. You can single heal one target for well over 300 with Heal Other/Jamei's Gaze.

What's more is that Healer's Boon also works for Dwayna's Kiss, boosting it to 140 points healed (with divine favour) and that sky rockets with enchantments or hexes on the target. You've got a healing Hex Removal that packs a nice heal (although it gets the half cast time it doesn't get Healer's Boon 50% bonus) and Divine Spirit to go with GoLE for additional energy maintence. I prefer restore life because it's easier to restore health then it is to restore energy (even though I usually bring Eve along). Having a res that restores 90%+ of someone's energy is very useful. Oh, and it also gets Healer's Boon half cast time...3 second res anyone? Anyone? Bueller? I tried to use Renew Life, as it gets the full effect from Healer's Boon (half cast time and 50% more heal) but it was just too expensive.

The only difference between my monk's bar and Dunkoro's bar is that Heal Party is replaced with Orison. Not the greatest heal, but a) Dunk can heal himself with it (and with their idiot AI sometimes that's needed) and b) I find that the heroess don't manage to use GoLE/Heal Party very well, which results in too much energy drain. They usually manage to do fairly well overall with big heals.

Tahlkora:
Prot 12+3+1 DF 12+1
[skill]Glyph of Lesser Energy[/skill][skill]Divine Spirit[/skill][skill]Shield of Regeneration[/skill][skill]Reversal of Fortune[/skill][skill]Guardian[/skill][skill]Dismiss Condition[/skill][skill]Blessed Aura[/skill][skill]Rebirth[/skill]

I pretty much use GoLE and DS as my energy management, so that's on all the bars. SoR for a big Prot so that if I'm pressed I can get to the person that needs Healing, I usually only bring one melee type, so that one gets Guardian (if the AI doesn't screw up) and with the quick recharge it can be cast on other targets that get aggroed. Then there's condition removal which my Healing build lacks, Blessed Aura so that Guardian, SoR and Divine Spirit last longer and Rebirth, which is usually disabled. Granted, that means it's usually a waste of a skill slot, but is something goes wrong, it's nice to have as a back up. Granted, all of my heroes are usually X/Mo for rebirth. If something goes wrong, I like to have all my heroes back rebirth because if something goes wrong (ie I die) I can make them run away. Occasionally, SoR will be subbed out for Divert Hexes, Restore Condition, but that's area dependant.

Ogden:
Healing 9+1
Prot 12+2+1
DF 9+2
[skill]Zealous Benediction[/skill][skill]Gift of Health[/skill][skill]Aegis[/skill][skill]Mend Condition[/skill][skill]Glyph of Lesser Energy[/skill][skill]Divine Spirit[/skill][skill]Deny Hexes[/skill][skill]Restore Life[/skill]

Occasionally I'll use a hybrid ZB Prot/Gift of Health build with Ogden, but this is usally in older campaigns where the Hench builds are useless and I need someone that can heal, remove hexes and conditions and do a bit of protection as well. This build has two solid heals in ZB and GoH, wide scale protection in the form of Aegis, condition and hex removal and my usual energy maintenance in GoLE and DS.

I fully admit that they're not the best bars, but they're usually more then enough to get you through any PvE experience save the elite areas. Mend Condition is in there pretty much because of it's fast recharge, although I've been thinking about swapping it our for Dismiss Condition.

I've also used Blessed Light from time to time in high hex/condition zones in hard mode.

Oh, and another thing, I usually find that when I'm monking and I've got an AI healer with me, that all too often we'll double heal a target. When running with another human monk I can easily PM them and say ("you heal the top half and I'll look after the bottom half"), or if they're to AI monks they'll just deal with it so that there's no overlapping of heals.

However you can't do this with the AI and quite frequently an injured party gets healed twice, which wastes energy. This is why I usually run healing with a prot hero, so there won't be as much waste in energy.

Anyway, best of luck with your new monk. It can be fun, but it can also be very frustrating if you've got idiot whammo types aggroing everything. Just keep patient, learn what works best for you.

Racthoh · Oct 29, 2007, 09:06 PM // 21:06

Signet of Devotion was decent on a boon prot bar because you were running 16 divine favor anyway and there wasn't much else at the time that was any good. Personally I've always found it to be a decent tool to teach a player to get their eyes off the red bars and watch the field. The two second usage is plenty of time to examine where everyone is positioned, and if need be, cancel SoD and pre-prot.