Curse

Loli Krasivaya · Feb 03, 2008, 04:10 AM // 04:10

I love monking, but I'm starting to realize now that it's because I worked through most of the game with friends/guildies/pugs.

Now that I'm trying to H/H my way to some reputation in GWEN, I'm second guessing my favorite profession.

How on earth do you monk for H/H? I can't get them to attack the same target without attacking it myself and calling it (thus aggroing in many cases), they'll have something almost completely killed and then start fighting something else despite how often I call targets, they huddle together and often get owned by aoe, despite my flag commanding, it's seriously impossible to get anything semi-difficult done with H/H it seems.

Is there a trick I'm not getting? I'd love some advice.

It just seems so much easier to H/H with damage classes :X

neoflame · Feb 03, 2008, 04:14 AM // 04:14

CTRL-SHIFT-whatever calls a target without attacking it. But yes, they tend to get owned by AoE.

Siirius Black · Feb 03, 2008, 04:14 AM // 04:14

I usualy go as heal and h/h with attack builds.
You pretty much leave it at that. You can still mark targets by calling it and they will attack it. you too even if u are healing your party.

Biostem · Feb 03, 2008, 04:16 AM // 04:16

It basically comes down to "tricking" the heroes to engage, then you yourself pulling back to stay out of harm's way.

You can use shift+ctrl+click to target w/o attacking, you can set your warrior in aggressive, (risky, but an option), or get at least 1 melee person to spearhead the attack.

You can keep a flatbow handy and use pulling tactics from a safe distance, (to to say you'd actually pull enemies 1 by 1, but that you'd use the extra distance to allow you to aggro in safety).

It is tough, since you basically have to initiate the action, but keep at it and you'll find something that works.

holababe · Feb 03, 2008, 04:29 AM // 04:29

If a pull is required i flag the heroes a LONG way back, because they have a tendency to shift around and then use a longbow to pull.

When we're fighting i target call via ctrl-clicking, since I can usually kite away easily. Even if I do take a few hits, healing touch or ethereal light is usually the right strength to heal me.

JoeKnowMo · Feb 03, 2008, 06:30 AM // 06:30

A melee hero with a speed boost set to aggressive can be sent in ahead of the group but it's a waste of a slot, imho.

I prefer a combination of the other 4 options:
- Have minions attract AoE damage.
- Flag h/h back, prot yourself and take the initial damage from a mob and then unflag heroes.
- Put several interrupts or quick recharging ones (Power Return) on your heroes to shut down casters. Use Aegis to limit physical AoE damage.
- Re-flag heroes when you see AoE damage coming.

Amy Awien · Feb 03, 2008, 08:15 AM // 08:15

Position your crew before a fight and try to take their movement into account; all caster henchies will stay more together then a mix of, say, casters, warrior and a paragon.
You can use flags and hero control panel to let a hero 'pull', or position them in such a way that the tanks will draw attention. Then calling targets and using the hero control panel lets you select their target, most of the time they'll obey, if not immediately.

Kwan Xi · Feb 03, 2008, 08:43 AM // 08:43

In Normal Mode you could go Smiting and take Mhenlo/Lina or a few Monk Heros and have them Heal/Protect instead.

ShockValue · Feb 03, 2008, 09:07 AM // 09:07

get 20 minions rolling and it doesnt matter much after that. Only the first couple of fights are difficult.

Zahr Dalsk · Feb 03, 2008, 09:41 AM // 09:41

I move near the enemy and then CTRL+SHIFT+SPACE to have heroes/hench engage them in combat. I then prot/heal the hero/hench. Sometimes I run a Mo/A smite knockdown rape build that focuses on quickly killing bosses, monks, ritualists, and other important targets and use the normal party number of healers (1 hero hybrid monk or an NRt or a RtMo restoration, and 1 or 2 hench monks; whereas when I do normal hybrid monk or a RtMo restoration ritualist I would have a single hero to support).

Winterclaw · Feb 03, 2008, 03:54 PM // 15:54

Make you you have them set to defensive instead of agressive (or passive). I think they tend to respond a little better in that mode.

Loli Krasivaya · Feb 03, 2008, 05:24 PM // 17:24

This is amazing advice

Thanks so much

I don't have a chance to try it out until tomorrow, but now I have a reason to go get Olias :X

Thanks<3

The Color Of Hope · Feb 03, 2008, 11:42 PM // 23:42

i had the same problem so i was thinking about going attack, how does this build look?

smite = 14 12+1+1
earth = 12
the rest in prot.

1. Defender's zeal
2. Judge's Insite
3. Ebon Hawk
4. Stoning
5. Ash Blast
6. optional
7. Vengence
8. Rebirth

optional would either be gliph of essence or gliph of sacrifice
both for rebirth & vengence

you could take out vengence also but i really like resing ppl then killing them.

masta_yoda · Feb 04, 2008, 07:22 AM // 07:22

i flag all h/h away before i aggro and only send olias[MM] so that the minions get all the aggro then i unflag and pound the targets

Joshie0808 · Feb 05, 2008, 04:27 AM // 04:27

I have been hero/henching all my monking life, and yes, you have to attack to get H/H to actually start fighting.

I generally call a target and have my character attack them when im not healing, this is because the AI seems to attack whoever you are targeting, regardless of if someone else is almost dead and healing.. or blah. Normally, i get just within aggro range, call the target, and this causes the AI to run toward the enemy group, aggroing but leaving me in the back. Or I flag my heroes and hench back, pull with my Poisonous Nevermore Flatbow ^^, and runnn.

The major problem is that when you do flag, heroes and hench get decimated by AoE in Hard Mode, because they are all standing on one spot. I mitigate this by setting myself up as a Heal Party + Healer's Boon monk. (Heroes using Heal party = heroes with no energy).

I also dont take any melee Heros and hench with me, because they tend to run toward enemies and 'stick' to them, when you want to pull back or move the fight to another location. tanking is generally done by minions.

Setting your heroes to defensive ensures a much higher rate of survival also.
Also, if you have problems getting your heroes to 'kill something off completely', I find that bringing 3 SF eles sure does the trick ^_^.

I have hero henched my way 95% of the time and gotten two elite skill hunter titles and all 3 protector titles (and beat EotN) on my monk.

And if you really want to attack, you dont need any smiting skills, heck you just set yourself up as a normal healing/prot monk..take out your elite. Bring ursan blessing.

Healthy tips:
You see an enemy using meteor shower/Savanah heat/maelstorm/sandstorm.. manually move your henchies somewhere else using a flag, then unflag.

Also, (Normal mode only.. ) all caster henchies and heroes tend to run if a melee enemy is attacking them, so they like, run around in circles, regardless of whether they're close to death or at full hp. This makes them all useless as they're not doing their job, so when possible, I body block the attacker, and have them hit me, stick a SoA on myself or something, and do the tanking myself. (Note: Normal mode onlyy!)

Some things you have to note is that planning ahead is really crucial for monk H/H. Heros hench with a human monk does signifigantly less damage than a group with AI monks + other hench + human damage dealer. For example: one particularly stupid mob with Coventina the matron in it (annoyingly hard to kill monk boss in Ring of Fire mission), I easily smashed to pieces on my elementalist, but had extreme difficulty on my monk because the H/H could never do enough damage to kill her. So then I brough along BHA, and the boss went down in seconds. Its just knowing what your up against and setting up your heroes to fight that.

If you plan on Hero/Henching a lot: pay attention to skills heroes use and dont use. Spirit Light weapon is a great Resto elite. Unfortunately, heroes like.. NEVER use it. T_T. So i bring weapon of remedy instead. Or if Diversion or backfire is spammed on the wrong target. Disable it, lock hero onto enemy monk and click it yourself. Find builds that heroes use exceptionally well. Sab's Triple necro team (i cant find the guru link so i have to use PvX :T) http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:Te...Necro_Vanquish is amazingggg. Or say, 2 or 3 SF eles.

Also, runing and putting insigna's on your heroes that you tend to use more often make an amazing difference.
Its just getting to know how your AI works and how to use that to your advantage.

Hope this helped a fellow H/H monk.

In my opinion:
best heroes are:
Ele ones, necro ones, and i guess a BHA ranger.

While monk heroes > monk henchies, you dont really need the extra healing power as you are the monk yourself (which should more than make up for it).

Henchies I never leave without:
-Monk ones
-Herta in NF

Henchies you should never leave with:
All the assassin ones
Derv ones
Mesmer ones (can interrupt/shutdown well.. but run out of energy too quick)

lorinton · Feb 07, 2008, 06:03 AM // 06:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshie0808

...

Find builds that heroes use exceptionally well. Sab's Triple necro team (i cant find the guru link so i have to use PvX :T) http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:Te...Necro_Vanquish is amazingggg. Or say, 2 or 3 SF eles.

...

Henchies I never leave without:
-Monk ones
-Herta in NF

Henchies you should never leave with:
All the assassin ones
Derv ones
Mesmer ones (can interrupt/shutdown well.. but run out of energy too quick)

I appreciate your detailed description of monking with heroes and henchmen. I'll try a few of your tips. Interesting how we can have such different experiences with the AI though.

I rarely attack to initiate combat. I shift-ctrl-space to set my desired target and flag the team in proximity of the target or drag the target into the party after aggroing them if it isn't safe to fight at the target's location. The fighting starts up fine.

I couldn't get my NRt to use [wiki]Signet of Lost Souls[/wiki] so I had to switch to [wiki]Signet of Spirits[/wiki] and make a few other changes to Sab's build for it to be effective.

I never take the monk henchmen because they always run into battle and get themselves killed.

I don't normally take an assassin henchman but do sometimes for variety and they do OK with sufficient attention from protection spells. I'm having success in NM lately with a mesmer henchman in EotN. I do have a Paragon playing a partial battery role that may be helping the energy problem. I'm still not convinced its a good use of a henchman position but its fun to have some variety.

I prefer bonding with H/H as it provides more time to observe the battle and make appropriate adjustments to H/H target, position and skill use.

«Ripskin · Feb 07, 2008, 06:17 AM // 06:17

If you can't get the necros to use lost souls.. then you must've red circled it out.

cataphract · Feb 07, 2008, 08:56 AM // 08:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshie0808

The major problem is that when you do flag, heroes and hench get decimated by AoE in Hard Mode, because they are all standing on one spot. I mitigate this by setting myself up as a Heal Party + Healer's Boon monk. (Heroes using Heal party = heroes with no energy).

My Dunkoro disagrees.

As for the OP's question - Protective Spirit is your best friend in HM.

In most cases, HM isn't that big of a deal, but bad spawns, buffed mobs and insanely buffed bosses can ruin your whole day. There is no general build for every map, but I found that having 2 prot monks (me as ZB, Tahlkora either RC or DH), an HB Dunkoro and a MM can go a loooooong way of making monking easier. First and foremost - prot the MM, flag him to take aggro and then flag him back so the minions body block and absorb the onslaught.

I too am second guessing my choice of a monk as a primary character. As of lately, I have started playing my ele in HM. Compared to monking, it's a walk in the park. I'm basically cutting through mobs like a hot knife through butter. All that got me thinking would I have saved myself from unneccessary grief and hardships associated with monking. Just mindless spamming of a few skills - go in, nuke the crap out of them, repeat until you've killed everything. H/H as an ele is 5 times easier than as a monk. But then again, having maxed everything in GW:EN and having 28 maxed titles on my monk, I really can't get myself to abbandon the monk. Currently, I'm taking a break from all the GW:EN farm-fest titles and HM overkill. I just do not feel like the saviour of the world of Tyria anymore. My monk is depressed and it shows - she has been eating candy and drinking like there's no tomorrow. Nowadays the only joy she finds in fireing rockets and sparklers. Oh, how the mighty have fallen.

lorinton · Feb 08, 2008, 05:19 AM // 05:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by «Ripskin

If you can't get the necros to use lost souls.. then you must've red circled it out.

Nope. I didn't pay attention to the MM, that hero may have used it. The NRt healer was always out of energy and the signet was never used. Thinking about it, perhaps its the result of avoid combat vs. guard. Guard was bad for other reasons though. The NRt hero is much, much easier to keep alive when on avoid combat.

shru · Feb 19, 2008, 05:29 AM // 05:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by lorinton

Nope. I didn't pay attention to the MM, that hero may have used it. The NRt healer was always out of energy and the signet was never used. Thinking about it, perhaps its the result of avoid combat vs. guard. Guard was bad for other reasons though. The NRt hero is much, much easier to keep alive when on avoid combat.

Setting a hero to avoid combot will result in the hero not targeting an enemy for anything. You'll have to set them back to guard to have them cast skills like SoLS.