Curse

horseradish · May 26, 2008, 11:52 PM // 23:52

If there's a wipe, more than likely your group is better off dead.

In any difficult mission or farming area, you're better off with skilled players, and the only way to know is through your guild/alliance and friend's list.

I agree, monking for PUGs can be a fun challenge, but compromising your skill bar is not worth the trouble. You'll probably never see them again anyways. Their idiotic opinions don't matter.

Bront · May 27, 2008, 12:27 AM // 00:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by horseradish

Divine Spirit has the potential to save more energy, but spamming skills is not smart, and it's unavailable for 3/4ths of a minute, a long time even in PvE.

The idea of the LoD build is to spam LoD. You should be able to cast LoD 2-3 times while under the influence of DS, as well as another spell or two.

The build mentioned had only 2 10 energy spells, one of which I might have suggested dumping for an E-management skill anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

There is really no need of e-management if Aegis is used sparingly.I still would use a res especially when pugging.Bront not eveyone plays as a /E.Foci swapping is the best form of it e-man..

DS is a DF skill, and wouldn't require you to play as a /e. And if you aren't using skills from any other secondary, it doesn't hurt to be a /E.

And Item swapping can be good E-management, but you eventualy can dig yourself a hole you can't regen out of in long battles. Better to have some e-management than not.

horseradish · May 27, 2008, 12:44 AM // 00:44

LoD should not be spammed. Every skill on a monk's bar is important. One must be smart about every skill because your energy is more precious than anyone else's. Pressing 1 on recharge is not smart.

Unless 3+ people need health right now or there's a lot of pressure damage, I won't touch it. The point of bringing party heals is to save time. To spam LoD is to waste time.

Grammar · May 27, 2008, 01:16 AM // 01:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by horseradish

Every skill on a monk's bar is important.

Absolutely. And to be honest, I kind of forgot that while running WoH. All I did was map WoH to one of my mouse buttons and spam it as much as I could with my dual 20/20 set.
Since dropping WoH for LoD, I've rediscovered how amazing Dwayna's Kiss, Dismiss Condition, and Cure Hex are in PvE. My increased usage of those three skills have completely make up for the loss of WoH (especially the ridiculously good Dwayna's Kiss). Add Patient Spirit or RoF in there, and I don't even miss WoH.

When LoD was first nerfed and WoH massivly buffed (Oct. or Nov. I believe it was), I was the one on these boards who spoke out against WoH, saying that it was redundant with Kiss. In the following months, I backed down on that and acclimated myself to using WoH, becuase it was the best elite left in PvE. After making this change, I began to see my monking skills decline; I got lazy with my prots, and found myself using the other skills on my bar less and less.
Now that I've removed WoH, I find myself protting better and using my entire bar more. Adding an incredibally energy efficient party heal to the mix is just the icing on the cake.

In a nutshell, I think I'm going to resurrect my claim from half a year ago: WoH is redundant with Dwayna's Kiss in PvE.

horseradish · May 27, 2008, 03:55 AM // 03:55

I remember doing a couple missions, and not even using WoH.

It has it's place, but it's not a favorite of mine, and it's certainly not necessary in PvE.

imho, the WoH buff should have gone to another worthless elite (Glimmer perhaps, with adjusted health points of course

)

fenix · May 27, 2008, 04:13 AM // 04:13

Best HERO LoD monk bar that I've found is;

LoD, Patient Spirit, Dwayna's/Heal Other, Guardian, Prot Spirit, Dismiss Condition, Cure Hex, Glyph Lesser

Very strong bar, energy is good (can be tight with Heal Other), can prot well, etc.

Edit:

If you're a human monk, change Prot Spirit to Spirit Bond for the better prot.

Age · May 27, 2008, 09:23 PM // 21:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bront

The idea of the LoD build is to spam LoD. You should be able to cast LoD 2-3 times while under the influence of DS, as well as another spell or two.

The build mentioned had only 2 10 energy spells, one of which I might have suggested dumping for an E-management skill anyway.

DS is a DF skill, and wouldn't require you to play as a /e. And if you aren't using skills from any other secondary, it doesn't hurt to be a /E.

And Item swapping can be good E-management, but you eventualy can dig yourself a hole you can't regen out of in long battles. Better to have some e-management than not.

You really don't need DS as in the recharge it is good with Deny Hexs but that is about or your Glyph of Renewal Monk.I never dig my self in hole and DS would help me out of it.

Burst Cancel · May 27, 2008, 11:03 PM // 23:03

The utility of Kiss is build- and area-dependant, obviously. Ergo, WoH isn't strictly redundant; in the vast majority of cases WoH will be a significantly stronger heal than Kiss. The question is whether it's "stronger enough" to be worth the elite slot.

Frankly, I don't see LoD, at 5/1/6 and [email protected], to be a superior option in HM PvE anymore. I far preferred its old incarnation with the 80% conditional.

Grammar · May 28, 2008, 05:58 AM // 05:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

The utility of Kiss is build- and area-dependant, obviously. Ergo, WoH isn't strictly redundant; in the vast majority of cases WoH will be a significantly stronger heal than Kiss. The question is whether it's "stronger enough" to be worth the elite slot.

Frankly, I don't see LoD, at 5/1/6 and [email protected], to be a superior option in HM PvE anymore. I far preferred its old incarnation with the 80% conditional.

Not entirely redundant, I know, I was merely overstating for dramatic emphasis.

The real question is, as you said, is WoH "stronger enough" to be worth the elite slot when non-elite skills like Kiss and Patient are available to you.
In NM my answer is a resounding no. But I haven't quite made up my mind about HM. Whichever one I leave behind in HM I ultimately end up missing at some point. That said, WoH is definitely better than LoD for those moments when everything goes to hell on you, which are typically the moments you want to build you build for, so you may have a point.

*waits for someone to post an insane [Arcane Mimicry] build and say "why not use both?"*

A Leprechaun · May 28, 2008, 11:28 AM // 11:28

Does Healers Boon improve the heal from LoD?
If so:
[arcane mimicry] -> [Healer's [email protected]] + [Light of [email protected]] = party heal of 99 every 6 seconds.

Lol, sorry had to take the Arcane Mimicry bait, I'm not much of a monk ^^.

~A Leprechaun~

Lourens · Jun 02, 2008, 06:18 PM // 18:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Leprechaun

Does Healers Boon improve the heal from LoD?
If so:
[arcane mimicry] -> [Healer's [email protected]] + [Light of [email protected]] = party heal of 99 every 6 seconds.

Lol, sorry had to take the Arcane Mimicry bait, I'm not much of a monk ^^.

~A Leprechaun~

[Healer's [email protected]][Glyph of lesser [email protected]][Heal [email protected]] I less energy intensive and heals a little more and doesnt require a second monk to steal something from

Age · Jun 02, 2008, 10:31 PM // 22:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

The utility of Kiss is build- and area-dependant, obviously. Ergo, WoH isn't strictly redundant; in the vast majority of cases WoH will be a significantly stronger heal than Kiss. The question is whether it's "stronger enough" to be worth the elite slot.

Frankly, I don't see LoD, at 5/1/6 and [email protected], to be a superior option in HM PvE anymore. I far preferred its old incarnation with the 80% conditional.

I would say you will still see the Healers Boon being used in HM.

Rathgar · Jun 04, 2008, 06:06 PM // 18:06

Quote:

... Cast glyph then PS or Aegis, and you've saved 20 energy. ...

Let's keep the math correct. You save 15 not 20 because it cost you 5 energy to cast Glyph. This is still a great energy save (three 5 energy skills worth).

-Lotus- · Jun 04, 2008, 07:25 PM // 19:25

the build in the OP is baed.

not taking RoF on a human monk is just rediculously stupid. it "heals"(kinda) more than either of the heals on that bar.

horseradish · Jun 04, 2008, 10:51 PM // 22:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rathgar

Let's keep the math correct. You save 15 not 20 because it cost you 5 energy to cast Glyph. This is still a great energy save (three 5 energy skills worth).

Well, 20 gross. 15 net.

Grammar · Jun 05, 2008, 06:06 AM // 06:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Lotus-

the build in the OP is baed.

not taking RoF on a human monk is just rediculously stupid. it "heals"(kinda) more than either of the heals on that bar.

RoF isn't that great in NM PvE. Kiss and Patient Spirit are both superior to RoF in that setting because they're much more reliable and heal for larger amounts a vast majority of the time (if not 100% of the time, depending how you're specced). Normal spot heals are just much more efficient in NM PvE, where RoF is very unlikely to trigger for its max amount very often.

RoF is much stronger in HM PvE, but it remains a toss up as far as efficiency goes. Patient Spirit heals for 114 @14 healing, while RoF "heals" for a max of 116 @10 prot. Also, Kiss heals for 123 @14 healing with 2 enchantments.
Since RoF is more likely to trigger for its max amount in HM, it's definitely justifiable to drop Kiss or Patient Spirit for it, depending on personal preference.

Personally, I never drop Kiss, because it's just a ridiculous skill in PvE (NM and HM), but I usually drop Patient for RoF in HM, because the delay on Patient is much more dangerous there.
This is what I've been using for my heals lately:
NM: LoD+Kiss+Patient
HM: WoH+Kiss+RoF
Obviously, the removers and the prot stuff is the same for both.

MasterSasori · Jun 06, 2008, 06:17 PM // 18:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Lotus-

the build in the OP is baed.

not taking RoF on a human monk is just rediculously stupid. it "heals"(kinda) more than either of the heals on that bar.

That's not entirely true for RoF. RoF is mildly useful in PvE normal and decent in PvE hard mode.

RoF usually ends up prevent a normal attack or something worthless. It really shines as a "oh shit" prot in GvG, not in PvE.

Red bars go up is an acceptable strategy in PvE and this is what Kiss and Patient does.

If you end up needing RoF alot in PvE, you may be doing something wrong.