Curse

Stuart444 · Jun 29, 2008, 11:49 AM // 11:49

Just started a monk yesterday, and today I just did the first mission and the first attribute quest.

In both of those, the NPCs just had to run ahead while my energy was low >_< ended up dieing a bit in the first mission as well.

Also it's taking time to get used to this new control scheme which for me is:

Skills 2 - 4 on numbers, skills 5 - 7 as R, F, C in order and skills 1 and 8 are set as my mouse side buttons.

This is also currently my skill bar:

[My current build;OwAT0sXBpBkkRWJ1jASFplgGBA]

the protection skills I bought on my own obviously, since I had them unlocked for heroes on my other characters ^^

if anyone has advice/tips to make me a better monk, do tell please :) just because it's hard to learn, doesn't mean I'll give up ^_^

EDIT: for some reason, it doesn't say what my secondary profession is, my secondary profession is Elementilist and yes I do have GoLE which I bought straight away >_>

also dont start the whole dont bring rez/bring rez debate since some people bring them, some dont, I prefer having one than not having one personally

NightOwl · Jun 29, 2008, 01:08 PM // 13:08

It's been a long, long time since I monked pve, so take it with a grain of salt.

Energy management. With that bar, you don't have any. As I recall, going /me is much better early on for keeping the energy bar up (my pve monk is still /me, for that matter).

You're trying to do too much. Pick healing or prot, and go with it. In general if you're trying to do both in pve, you're shorting yourself on being good at either. As soon as you've got enough skills, set up for just one of them.

I recall people showing math to demonstrate that Breeze is pretty crappy, but I used it a fair while in spite of that and found it useful until better skills showed up. I'd say this though, be cautious with it. Try not to waste regen on overhealing, and save it for when someone is taking enough damage that your regular heals can't keep 'em up, then stack it with your normal healing.

Mend Condition is pretty handy, imo, in plenty of maps that aren't too condition heavy, such as early on. Getting a heal for one condition is better than having potential heal when there aren't any more conditions around.

I can't recommend a specific starter build, but there are plenty around on here that I'm sure you can dig up.

Oh, and don't bring a rez.

lol

maxxfury · Jun 29, 2008, 01:08 PM // 13:08

[Dwaynas kiss] for [Healing Breeze] -a no brainer
[Glyph of lesser energy] for [Resurrection chant] -personal choice i guess

Cebe · Jun 29, 2008, 01:28 PM // 13:28

You'll save yourself a lot of energy if you only heal people when they actually need it (less than ~80% Health). For example, don't bother healing up little bits of splash damage from players who have already moved out of the AoE which was causing it. Keep your eye on who is being hit on and protect them as necessary. Pre-casting Protective Spirit on key members (like a warrior who goes running on in ahead of everyone else) can help to minimise the amount of healing.

I agree with maxxfury on the skill change ideas. Healing Breeze isn't good because it doesn't heal when you want it to, it's just general healing-over-time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NightOwl

Oh, and don't bring a rez.

I'd ask the group if they want you to bring a res first, if playing with Humans. If Hero/Henching things then you could probably do without. Never go into a mission with other humans without telling them you have no res imo.

theonetheonlybruce · Jun 29, 2008, 01:52 PM // 13:52

1) drop the prot skills they are just a energy skink atm and starting you dont need them
2)focuse your atts in healing with left over in divinity
3) healing breeze is not that bad of a skill regardless of what anyone says as long as u use gole befor hand (note later game you will need change)
4)hers my suggester bar [build=OwYT043AZSjoB8uBZAkolYTDNCA] this is what one of my heros run but assuming you dont have woh or patient trow in any 5 costing energy skills and have fun when i started i just spamed hb on people (not great idea but hey it worked to get me trough profacies) and used cheap skills when i needed to like i said above just fill up healing then divinity

Crystal Lake · Jun 29, 2008, 02:21 PM // 14:21

Monks are my favorite profession, and yes, there was a lot to learn. You certainly have to play different from other professions, because you don't focus so much on fighting as watching what kind of healing a particular member needs. Not always easy in the heat of a battle.

That said, what I put on my bar depends on the particular mission/quest at hand, and who the other team members are. Your bar as is now takes a lot of energy and I figure your monk isn't at a high level yet with much energy to spare, and also you probably don't have a lot of skill choices either. That said here's my 2 cents with what you have now:

In stead of [aegis] I would bring [guardian]. Aegis is good for places where is going to be a lot of group knock which will interrupt your team, or group attacks where the team takes a lot of damage. Otherwise the high energy cost and long recharge makes Aegis not as useful. Guardian works fine for most cases. I use it on warriors, for instance, who are going to take the brunt of the damage at first - or for anyone who looks like they are taking a beating. [protective spirit] is also good for the heavy damage takers.

I do have a lot of different builds for different places and situations, so it's hard to post one particular build as good for everything - because in my experience no such build exists. I do look on these boards and PvxWiKi for ideas and builds, especially when you get into the harder areas where a team really depends on you to help keep them alive.

As far as rezs are concerned, a rule of thumb is if you don't bring one with you, you will need it, and if you bring one you probably won't use it.

And no matter how many posts and how many people tell you that [rebirth] isn't useful, it has saved many rear ends and several hard missions I went on from completely tanking.

Experiment and have fun!

Gift3d · Jun 29, 2008, 02:26 PM // 14:26

You don't seem to be a fan of having energy.

Healing Breeze only has one good use in the entire world of Guild Wars. 55 monk farming. As a healing skill, it is H O R R I B L E.

Shielding hands is also a pretty bad skill. Basically your one and only healing skill was Orison, that's probably why everybody was dying.

N1ghtstalker · Jun 29, 2008, 03:45 PM // 15:45

great skills for monk are
For healing:
[dwayna's kiss]
[word of healing]
[glimmer of light]
[patient spirit]
[healer's boon]
[orison of healing]
[cure hex]

for prot
[reversal of fortune]
[zealous benediction]
[dismiss condition] (can be used on a healing bar too)

for e-management
[glyph of lesser energy]
[waste not, want not]

could have forgotten alot but those are the ones i mainly use

BL1ZZARD · Jun 29, 2008, 04:18 PM // 16:18

O.o healing breeze is terrible

Jenn · Jun 29, 2008, 04:39 PM // 16:39

The best thing you can do as a monk is read the skill descriptions and think about what it will actually mean when you apply them.

I see you have healing breeze, and maybe it reads to be an okay skill (100+ hp over time) but what it doesn't take into account is how much damage you will take in those 15 seconds it is up. It means barely nothing, especially when you get later in the game. The argument of it counteracting degeneration is a bad one. With something like Dwayna's Kiss or Words of Comfort, it is half the energy but will heal at least the same, or twice as much as what you'd be getting from healing breeze.

Like a few others have said, there is no energy management in your bar, and you would probably prefer to have some. There are a few popular options for this:
Signet of Rejuvenation

Glyph of Lesser Energy (only recommended if you have 10energy spells on your bar like Protective Spirit)

Selfless Spirit (Kurzick Skill)

And a couple others that have been mentioned.

Darkpower Alchemist · Jun 29, 2008, 05:58 PM // 17:58

Ok, now that everyone has said what you're doing wrong, I will tell you what you're doing right. You asked for help and that is the testament of a person who wants to learn.

As for your build, it's basicly what a guy starting prophecies 2 years ago would run with before he hit the desert. Their are plenty of better skills to use as the game has broadened and evolved into what it is today, but the question then becomes what do you have access to?

Shielding hands and healing breeze are not bad in the sense of staying off the hand of death, yet Breeze is limited while shielding hands is quite solid even if not prefered. If you are just in prophecies currently, then my advice is use:

[skill]Heal Other[/skill] as this skill will make up for not having an elite like WoH that as has been advised. I have no problem with you using protection/healing hybrids. The problem is you're implementing the wrong skills currently. I agree that aegis is awesome, yet in a 4-6 man team dynamic, it is overkill. Guardian rules in small team settings. Patient spirit is solid if you have access to it, but that's another story. If you're patient, when you're level 15 or so, you will have the attribute points to make hybrid builds.

[skill]Protective Spirit[/skill][skill]Heal Other[/skill][skill]Reversal of Fortune[/skill][skill]Mend Ailment[/skill][skill]Guardian[/skill][skill]Divine Boon[/skill][skill]Channeling[/skill][skill]Remove Hex[/skill]

In the arguement of no res/res think like this. If you're ressing, then who the heck is healing? I carry a res upon request, or if the guys I'm with have wiped previously. Yet, I usually leave ressing to others when I'm playing monk.

The build I prefer is:

[skill]Protective Spirit[/skill][skill]Shield of Absorption[/skill][skill]Signet of Rejuvenation[/skill][skill]Word of Healing[/skill][skill]Dismiss Condition[/skill][skill]Cure Hex[/skill][skill]Aegis[/skill] with the last skill depending on what I'm doing and who I'm with. My hero MM is a hybrid build using Blood Ritual and Aegis in his build, so that makes things a ton easier. Aegis is best used in a chain scenario in order to keep the pressure off in physical altercations. As we all well know, diverting damage is much more proactive than simple bars go up healing. It's just bars go up healing between level 1 and level 14.

horseradish · Jun 29, 2008, 07:54 PM // 19:54

What's with the anti-prot bullshit?

Healbots suck because they're redundant. Honestly, you need (at most) three heal skills. Bringing skills like [Protective Spirit] and [Shield of Absorption] certainly helps more than a 4th or 5th heal.

You definitely have the basic template down, so /congrats on that.

Try to bring another heal and [Signet of Rejuvenation]. Perhaps remove Healing Breeze and Shielding Hands for that, and replace [Aegis] with [Guardian]. I'm assuming you're still in Shing Jea, so you won't have a full party until later. Once you have access to 7 other party members, bring Aegis.

Div · Jun 29, 2008, 09:05 PM // 21:05

Unless you're running with ursans/SY and consumables, pure healing bars are stupid.

Tearz1993 · Jun 29, 2008, 09:11 PM // 21:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

Unless you're running with ursans/SY and consumables, pure healing bars are stupid.

But Riverside told me Patient Spirit can replace RoF

Gun Pierson · Jun 29, 2008, 09:29 PM // 21:29

Ok some controversial advice here that you might wanne try out. Don't waste your time healing or protecting or with a hybrid build in pve, signet smite is what you need. No energy problems, fast targetting. The healer/prot henchies will take care of the heal/prot part. Attack is the best defence in PvE even if you're a monk.

mantra of inscriptions + bane signet + castigation signet (if you have eotn) + banish and try to get signet of judgement as soon as possible. Spear of light does a lot of dmg if executed well.

Keep the healing/protection stuff for pugs or pvp, unless you really like to prolong stuff in pve.

EDIT: Healing breeze is indeed not a good direct heal spell, but you can have some fun using Healer's Covenant and Vigorous Spirit with it.

horseradish · Jun 29, 2008, 11:05 PM // 23:05

^ the OP is looking for help with a his build, which doesn't include Smiting Prayers.

It's less troublesome with henchies though.

Age · Jun 30, 2008, 12:37 AM // 00:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by theonetheonlybruce

1) drop the prot skills they are just a energy skink atm and starting you dont need them
2)focuse your atts in healing with left over in divinity
3) healing breeze is not that bad of a skill regardless of what anyone says as long as u use gole befor hand (note later game you will need change)
4)hers my suggester bar [build=OwYT043AZSjoB8uBZAkolYTDNCA] this is what one of my heros run but assuming you dont have woh or patient trow in any 5 costing energy skills and have fun when i started i just spamed hb on people (not great idea but hey it worked to get me trough profacies) and used cheap skills when i needed to like i said above just fill up healing then divinity

That is great for heros but no a real persons bar yes all AI can spam healing breeze like there is no tommorow.

The skill bar is about 40% of what makes you a good pve Monk it is know weather or not what the other players are using and what runes they have.Then there is positioning as full healing you are are in the very back but as hybid you can be midline and it is good to get whole view of your party this means pulling the mouse up and zooming out and clicking on the map to kite with.I do agree with what Celestial Beaver said about resses although in my exprience dealing with most pugs who can be 11 yr olds it is best to bring one.

theonetheonlybruce · Jun 30, 2008, 12:44 AM // 00:44

ok lets all remember hes starting monk when you 1st start you gotta make do with what you have an a straight forward easy healing build is gonna work and as he progresses he will improve and go hybrid if he wished be ok suck as the build i gave above beat 2 campaigns with it so must work

Rhamia Darigaz · Jun 30, 2008, 03:53 AM // 03:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by NightOwl

You're trying to do too much. Pick healing or prot, and go with it. In general if you're trying to do both in pve, you're shorting yourself on being good at either. As soon as you've got enough skills, set up for just one of them.

Oh, and don't bring a rez.

lol

ignore that first paragraph, hybrids>pure prot>pure healing if the word "efficiency" has a positive connotation to you(unless, as someone already said, you're running ursan or whatnot)
and despite the OP's request to refrain from res debates, theres really no debate, dont bring one on a monk. so listen to the second paragraph

Quote:

Originally Posted by theonetheonlybruce

ok lets all remember hes starting monk when you 1st start you gotta make do with what you have an a straight forward easy healing build is gonna work and as he progresses he will improve and go hybrid if he wished be ok suck as the build i gave above beat 2 campaigns with it so must work

wat

-Lotus- · Jun 30, 2008, 05:31 AM // 05:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by theonetheonlybruce

1) drop the prot skills they are just a energy skink atm and starting you dont need them
2)focuse your atts in healing with left over in divinity
3) healing breeze is not that bad of a skill regardless of what anyone says as long as u use gole befor hand (note later game you will need change)

this is evidence that this person is an idiot. ignore him.

anyways, for a monk in PvE (with a rez, as you requested) would be:
[RoF][WoH][Shield of Absorption][Prot Spirit][Glyph of Lesser Energy][Remove Hex][Dismiss Condition][Rebirth]
-Never use rebirth in battle
-dont waste energy, characters at 90% health are fine
-this follows the basic monk template, a few skills can easily be switched while having a similar effect.

in general you want:
-RoF
-Large heal (thats usually Word of healing)
-spall prot (Shield of absorption or shielding hands)
-large prot (prot spirit or spirit bond)
-condition removal
-hex removal
-2 optionals (this can be a small heal, another small prot, energy managment, resurrection, utility, or PvE skills)

plenty of people in PvE will attempt to tell you to play pure healing bars. ignore them. pure healing bars and pure prot bars are terrible. the effective difference of heal/prot skills from around 14 to around 11 is almost nothing and if you pack a bar with just healing or protection skills your skills are going to be redundant. why do you need 5 skills that make red bars go up?

Edit: and about healing breeze, the same rule goes for all degen/regen skills: they suck. regen/degen is capped at 10 pips which equals to 20 HPS/DPS, which isnt so great, and it usually takes quite a bit of energy to max out regen/degen. healing/damage packets are always more effective.