Curse

maxxfury · Jun 10, 2009, 11:44 PM // 23:44

So, in another thread there was some talk about taking:
2x Prot spirit over 1xprot spirit +1x spirit bond.

What is the general thoughts on this?

Personally if i know there IS at least one copy of prot spirit in the team, and preferably 2 copies i like to run Spirit Bond instead( i think mainly due to playin monk often in pvp *shrugs*) Due to the massive prot boost it gives when overlaped with PS and what it does alone also isnt weak.

Obviously, i'd take PS if i didnt know there was a another copy around or didnt expect it to be used well.

But generally, IF there is already a PS on the other monk(and maybe a midliner) do you take YET another copy? or slot Spirit bond?

/just pondering the thoughts on this Thankyou

So other than 600 ect...IS there a place for SB?

Killamus · Jun 11, 2009, 12:06 AM // 00:06

There really isn't a need for SB in PvE, aside from the farming builds for it. I find that unless you're facing something rather strong, it's... Uncommon? For stuff to hit above 60. If you have decent healers, PS will reduce the spikes and make it quite easy for your healers to keep up. I usually run 2-3 PS's in the party, just because enchantment removal seems to come hand-in-hand with heavy damage.

However, because of SB's small recharge, and large energy, most heroes (Exempt: N/Mo) will run out of energy due to spamming it, even if you're not taking over 60 damage consistently. I've also found they don't pair it with PS quite well, usually choosing one or the other.

tl;dr, it's not a bad skill. If you're a human. Otherwise stick it on a N/Mo healer if you want it.

zelgadissan · Jun 11, 2009, 01:09 AM // 01:09

Spirit Bond doesn't take the edge off the wtfpwned of HM bosses like Protective Spirit does. Personally I love SB and run it on my NM monk build - lots of stuff hits right around 60 to make it the perfect prot spell - but in HM, Spirit Bond should only exist in farming.

Chthon · Jun 11, 2009, 01:21 AM // 01:21

Depends. In the situation of characters that have to live within energy bounds, and so will use 10e skills judiciously, (like monks) 2x PS is much better. Protecting two allies from the wtfpwn is better than protecting just one. However, in the case of ER eles, who can spam 10e skills on recharge, you've got the potential to get PS+SB both on anyone who's getting hit. And that basically turns every party member into a part-time 600-tank.

Helix Dreadlock · Jun 11, 2009, 01:24 AM // 01:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killamus

There really isn't a need for SB in PvE, aside from the farming builds for it. I find that unless you're facing something rather strong, it's... Uncommon? For stuff to hit above 60. If you have decent healers, PS will reduce the spikes and make it quite easy for your healers to keep up. I usually run 2-3 PS's in the party, just because enchantment removal seems to come hand-in-hand with heavy damage.

However, because of SB's small recharge, and large energy, most heroes (Exempt: N/Mo) will run out of energy due to spamming it, even if you're not taking over 60 damage consistently. I've also found they don't pair it with PS quite well, usually choosing one or the other.

tl;dr, it's not a bad skill. If you're a human. Otherwise stick it on a N/Mo healer if you want it.

wrong. SB is extremely useful in HM as the enemies can hit for over 100 damage.

maxxfury · Jun 11, 2009, 01:25 AM // 01:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by zelgadissan

Spirit Bond doesn't take the edge off the wtfpwned of HM bosses like Protective Spirit does. Personally I love SB and run it on my NM monk build - lots of stuff hits right around 60 to make it the perfect prot spell - but in HM, Spirit Bond should only exist in farming.

Ahhhh VERY good point!...i tend to mess around in NM! and use more SB there!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

Depends. In the situation of characters that have to live within energy bounds, and so will use 10e skills judiciously, (like monks) 2x PS is much better. Protecting two allies from the wtfpwn is better than protecting just one. However, in the case of ER eles, who can spam 10e skills on recharge, you've got the potential to get PS+SB both on anyone who's getting hit. And that basically turns every party member into a part-time 600-tank.

And thats pretty much my reasoning for liking SB in general.

Tho abusing AP+selfless cuts the 10e to 5s making it much more managable.

Axel Zinfandel · Jun 11, 2009, 01:27 AM // 01:27

a pretty neat, niche trick in PvE is to cast SB then Aura of Faith. It's absolutely insane

From wiki: Casting Spirit Bond first, followed by Aura of Faith, will increase Spirit Bond's healing and then decrease the damage received. Do not cast Aura of Faith first, however, or it will reduce the incoming damage before Spirit Bond checks if it is over 60 (resulting in significantly fewer heals from Spirit Bond).

Lets say you get hit with 62 damage. AoF would reduce it to 31, and you'd get healed for 200 geddemn health.

Granted, not that useful or practical, but still interesting haha

_Nihilist_ · Jun 11, 2009, 01:42 AM // 01:42

I like them both on my bar. I'm spoiled.

glacialphoenix · Jun 11, 2009, 02:58 AM // 02:58

I use both.

Frankly, I think if I trusted the other monk, it'd be PS + SB, if not, 2 x PS.

Wish Swiftdeath · Jun 11, 2009, 03:35 AM // 03:35

2x PS, it's PvE, most people run 300 health there anyway

Jaigoda · Jun 11, 2009, 03:42 AM // 03:42

It depends on the area. For general HM, one copy of PS should be enough and if I have space for another hard prot I'd bring SB. That is, if I'm actually bringing monk heroes. But considering SB doesn't get as much use out of low prot and PS has high duration at low spec, I'd probably take 2 PS's if I'm running Sab/Discord.

Either way, this discussion is kinda crappy because it all depends on the area and what team you're running.

maxxfury · Jun 11, 2009, 03:51 AM // 03:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaigoda

Either way, this discussion is kinda crappy because it all depends on the area and what team you're running.

a thread on guru asking a legitimate Question looking for legitimate replies and discussion?....well im not bitchin about something so..guess i shouldnt have bothered eh?

Of course like most things, depends on your team, bars, areas yada yada.

But the general question of "Is there a place for SB in pve?" id say is a fair question! especially compared to most of the crap around here.
And astonishingly enough, got some pretty non troll worthy replies!

faraaz · Jun 11, 2009, 08:00 AM // 08:00

I would say, SB in PVE finds a use on bars like the Ether Renewal Infuser...but not so much on a regular monk, no...

Prot spirit + Dwayna's Kiss takes care of any in coming damage a char might take...SB is fun to preprot with but unnecessary, strictly speaking.

caeleth · Jun 11, 2009, 08:02 AM // 08:02

I personally love SB. Especially in HM since most melee hits will be in the 60-120 range which means that SB will negate pretty much all of it whereas PS would still be letting up to 60dmg a hit through.

PS has two uses in PvE - DP and bosses. So if it's an area with no insane dmg bosses and I trust my team I'd choose SB over PS. If either of the above two are present you're kinda stuck with PS...

Ideally though: healer takes PS (because you don't need to spec high in prot for a decent return on PS) and prot takes SB.

Two or more copies of PS is generally wasted since unless your monks are pretty decent they'll be throwing it up on the same targets (you'd think PS would be recognizable, but yea...) or just go spam crazy and dump it on anyone taking damage. In HM this'll just end up in more deaths since one of those monks should've been healing the damage that gets through but can't since he wasted all his energy spamming PS.

Haxor · Jun 11, 2009, 03:00 PM // 15:00

When I play a mainly prot-oriented bar, I'll have both. If I play a hybrid, just prot spirit. Especially when playing with pugs. Most of them have the field awareness of a mildly retarded brick, so it's good to preprot them and turn them in to a temp-tank.

Jaigoda · Jun 11, 2009, 05:54 PM // 17:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxxfury

But generally, IF there is already a PS on the other monk(and maybe a midliner) do you take YET another copy? or slot Spirit bond?

I was mostly responding to this, which is why I said that it depends on your team setup and where you are. Almost (note: almost) every skill has a place in PvE anyway, so that's a pretty moot argument.

Also, whether or not Guru has lots of decent discussions doesn't really affect whether this discussion is actually very useful.

Burst Cancel · Jun 11, 2009, 05:57 PM // 17:57

In HM, PS will prevent more damage, despite the fact that SB will usually prevent more damage per hit from normal enemies (damage packets generally need to be over 140 for PS to be better on a per-hit basis, assuming 600 max health and 9~11 prot spec). The issue is that SB runs out in 10 packets or 8 seconds, whichever comes first, whereas PS will cover the target for a good 17~20 seconds.

That said, I generally don't find it profitable to run two copies of PS, because people often end up casting it on the same target.

bungusmaximus · Jun 12, 2009, 10:20 AM // 10:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haxor

When I play a mainly prot-oriented bar, I'll have both. If I play a hybrid, just prot spirit. Especially when playing with pugs. Most of them have the field awareness of a mildly retarded brick, so it's good to preprot them and turn them in to a temp-tank.

That would be a reason for me not to take it, SB doesn't work too well when 3 people ball up in some AoE spell. That's why prot in bad pugs fails hard to begin with, the monk will burn through all energy because there's usually too many people taking too much damage. Groups like that are better served with superpowered party healing.

dark4190 · Jul 06, 2009, 11:34 PM // 23:34

I'd take the two Prot Spirits over the Spirit Bonds. PS does something SB doesn't. It prevents damage. It can make a devastating 400dmg skill do only 53dmg. Spirit Bond in that same situation doesn't come close to keeping someone alive. In all the cases that Bond would be useful, PS can do a better, longer, more effective job. true it doesn't heal. But it doesn't wear off after an X amount of attacks and can keep someone alive for a GUARANTEED 9-10 hits.

It's too good of a skill. It makes anyone a tank. I ALWAYS take PS on my healer builds. I don't care if I've only got 8 in prot, for those 13 seconds its working, it's doing a wonderful job

maxxfury · Jul 06, 2009, 11:46 PM // 23:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by dark4190

It's too good of a skill. It makes anyone a tank. I ALWAYS take PS on my healer builds. I don't care if I've only got 8 in prot, for those 13 seconds its working, it's doing a wonderful job

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