Curse

JoeKnowMo · Aug 02, 2009, 07:09 PM // 19:09

I see mostly HB or UA being used in HM with WoH in there often as well. HB is used primarily for the big party heal while UA is used for the awesome rez mostly. Both elites also buff your party heals but take 3 slots (HB, GoLE, HP OR UA, Divine Healing, Heaven's Delight) to accomplish this effectively.

Do you think LoD in its current state is worth it in HM? If so, why does it see no play (or even discussion from the 'good' players on this board)? If not, what would you like to see changed so that it is playable?

Personally, I love the skill due to to bar compression allowing one to bring more prot and utility. However, healing 66 (@14 Healing) every 7s is weak in HM due to the AoE damage often arriving in much larger packets. I think it needs a buff so that it heals around 80-90 health @14 Healing. It would probably see more play and open up bars so players can move away from pure power healing.

Evasion Twenty · Aug 02, 2009, 07:18 PM // 19:18

I guess a buff would be better. It should be AoE heals, but idk

glacialphoenix · Aug 02, 2009, 07:23 PM // 19:23

Quote:

Do you think LoD in its current state is worth it in HM? If so, why does it see no play (or even discussion from the 'good' players on this board)? If not, what would you like to see changed so that it is playable?

I've run it in HM, so it's definitely viable. (Dasha Vestibule HM, PUGged it, no deaths except for the fellow who stood in the fire jet; also vanquished an Ascalon area with it.)

However, you realise that most PUGs take HB because of the powerheal, which LoD can't compare to since they nerfed it. I took it in Dasha because my fellow monk brought WoH, mostly heals, practically no prot; I needed a bar that would let me prot and party heal at the same time, and HB wasn't worth it.

I don't know what you mean by 'worth it', but it's definitely viable.

IronSheik · Aug 02, 2009, 07:38 PM // 19:38

I can't see a use for it over HP, sure higher energy, but if you're good with energy that isn't a problem.

Something that'd really make me take it over something else is the revert back to old recharge, more health, OR a 1/4 cast would be awesome.

sosycpsycho · Aug 02, 2009, 07:58 PM // 19:58

I have used it but it is not as good as other skills. I like HB if the group is either mostly mage or mostly melee to get the most bang out of it like above poster said for the power heal. I think in HM you will do better without party wide spells but much of this has to do with if you are with real people or NPC's.

maxxfury · Aug 02, 2009, 09:18 PM // 21:18

'Playing' around in NM if the other monks runs woh, ill take LOD.
And fire it off with a 40/40set.

I can see it been viable in HM, if you can balance your lod + kiss with their woh + patspirit (patspirit and kiss been interchangable ofc) so long as you can prot well.
In a dual hybrid situation ^

Any more than that as heals your likely not protting well.

but again Viable =/= optimal.

glacialphoenix · Aug 02, 2009, 10:39 PM // 22:39

^

Not optimal, no; last I brought it I packed it with - I think it was Breath of the Great Dwarf - because I was expecting to be set on fire fairly frequently. Ran it with 40/40; if you prot well it's possible to more or less keep everyone at the point where WoH is generally unnecessary. Yes, in HM.

I'll be the first to admit it wasn't the best, and it won't see the use that it, ah, used to get before it was nerfed, but it was a nice change from WoH or HB, though. XD

DarkGanni · Aug 02, 2009, 10:47 PM // 22:47

A good start to buff this elite is bring it's healing power on par with Heal Party.

Bristlebane · Aug 02, 2009, 11:45 PM // 23:45

I often take LoD, especially in areas where there's less spike and more degen to counter. In good ol' FoW, I like LoD much better than for example WoH. Not much spiking here, and it helps nicely against pesky Barragers and spiders.

If party brings Save Yourselves, or There's Nothing to Fear, LoD is an excellent skill to bring.

Pip Squeak · Aug 03, 2009, 02:07 AM // 02:07

LoD is nice in 4-man VQs but is considered by some as "powerless" compared to HB+Heal Party. The nice thing about running LoD is that you can have room for prots; in HB you basically have 5 slots occupied (GoLE, Dwayna's Kiss, Ethereal Light/Patient Spirit, HB, Heal Party) and 3 left for condition/hex removal/prot(s)/rez. With the LoD variant you just need 1 or 2 more heals and have more room for prots. Only weakness LoD has is it's recharge time and not as big party-wide heal.

JoeKnowMo · Aug 03, 2009, 03:31 PM // 15:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pip Squeak

The nice thing about running LoD is that you can have room for prots; in HB you basically have 5 slots occupied (GoLE, Dwayna's Kiss, Ethereal Light/Patient Spirit, HB, Heal Party) and 3 left for condition/hex removal/prot(s)/rez.

HBs also tend to run low on energy quickly because a Heal Party not preceded by GoLE is expensive. And the 1 prot a HB typically takes (PS) is also expensive. So they don't mitigate damage enough and end up pushing red bars and eventually run low on energy.

The UA build runs into a similar problem with few spots for prots/utility, although you don't have to bring a rez. And UAs tend to have problems with energy too. If you think you need a rez that badly, should you be running with one pip less of energy?

I vanquished Drakkar Lake with a guildie yesterday and we aggroed a huge mob of dwarves in the caves. The Dolyak Masters were healing the group well, the Gnashers were getting corpses before our MMs, and their melee and rangers were hitting us hard. The fight lasted a long time but I didn't run into any energy problems with my LoD build.

I'd like to see them change LoD to heal 80 health (@14 Healing) and/or a recharge reduction to 5s. It would be better for players if most monk pairs were WoH/LoD instead of HB/UA.

Improvavel · Aug 03, 2009, 05:21 PM // 17:21

There aren't many places where you would be degened or even resource exhausted to death - and even in those places LoD's job can be easily done with the divine favor party heals on a smiting monk, PwK and/or life on anything Rit and even TntF/fall back/para chants can catch some of it - if you are running WoH+WoH instead of LoD+WoH.

UA and HB are used mostly because the ease of use and not exactly for optimal builds.

wilson · Aug 04, 2009, 07:39 AM // 07:39

If I want party healing in PvE I bring Seed of Life. A Word of Healing hybrid running that nice little skill outclasses pretty much anything else you could possible come up with like Healer's Boon + Heal Party or Light of Deliverance. Always use the skill with your prot staff (or any other weapon with an enchanting mod) for maximum effectiveness.

JoeKnowMo · Aug 04, 2009, 10:14 PM // 22:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

There aren't many places where you would be degened or even resource exhausted to death - and even in those places LoD's job can be easily done with the divine favor party heals on a smiting monk, PwK and/or life on anything Rit and even TntF/fall back/para chants can catch some of it - if you are running WoH+WoH instead of LoD+WoH.

UA and HB are used mostly because the ease of use and not exactly for optimal builds.

You can get resource exhausted to death anywhere if you overaggro.

With the popular UA/HB combo, when overaggro happens, if foes don't die very quickly, the monks will probably run low on energy and allies start to drop.

The LoD or WoH builds can stay effective during the longer battles.

Given the focus on making good time in most (all?) of GW pve, being able to handle larger groups - unexpected popups, patrols that come in from afar to join the fray, and other overaggro caused by poor frontiliners - is the difference between survival and failure/rezzing.

I agree with others in the group picking up the party healing if you're lucky enough to be in such a group. That is rarely the case when you're doing the daily zaishen missions.

glacialphoenix · Aug 04, 2009, 11:52 PM // 23:52

Quote:

I agree with others in the group picking up the party healing if you're lucky enough to be in such a group. That is rarely the case when you're doing the daily zaishen missions.

I agree with this.

Also, LoD is, due to its longer recharge time, not as inherently spammable as Heal Party. Heal Party, on the other hand, is extremely expensive without GoLE, and VERY spammable in the sense that if you're panicked you can really just keep hitting that button 'til you run out of energy. In the case of a good monk it shouldn't matter, but many UA/HB monks aren't good monks - there was another thread somewhere complaining about how fast they collapse under pressure, which brings me to this:

Quote:

There aren't many places where you would be degened or even resource exhausted to death

Overaggro or no, if a monk has no dratted sense of energy management and just spams skills, you can say goodbye to your party in short order. Sometimes I think I'd rather see a monk run LoD as opposed to HB: firstly because it means the monk might actually have thought about it instead of just yanking the build off somewhere; secondly because I think it's far more probable that a bad HB monk will spam Heal Party 'til he's out of energy than a bad LoD monk will. I say 'bad' here because if the monk had decent notions of energy management, this wouldn't be an issue.

Also, if you need to have that party healing, LoD offers you space for that and prots, which I think somebody already mentioned.

laksa and curry · Aug 07, 2009, 02:41 AM // 02:41

LOD isnt that sucky. There are better skills out there we all know.

TS LOD will still work in HM I tried it but it will draw some nasty remarks from PUGs who only know about "HB 7 heals" build.

1st decription of LOD was heal party memebers for XXX amount affects only memebers with 80% or less health. 4 seconds to recharge.(Exact details maybe wrong but it goes something like this)
It was the leet skill in that time, every monk was expected to use it. In short it was as untouchable as HB.

Current description is heal party memebers for XXX amount regardless. 6 seconds to recharge.
IMO just as useful.

Fleeting · Aug 08, 2009, 08:06 AM // 08:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by laksa and curry

LOD isnt that sucky. There are better skills out there we all know.

TS LOD will still work in HM I tried it but it will draw some nasty remarks from PUGs who only know about "HB 7 heals" build.

1st decription of LOD was heal party memebers for XXX amount affects only memebers with 80% or less health. 4 seconds to recharge.(Exact details maybe wrong but it goes something like this)
It was the leet skill in that time, every monk was expected to use it. In short it was as untouchable as HB.

Current description is heal party memebers for XXX amount regardless. 6 seconds to recharge.
IMO just as useful.

I don't remember LoD having a hp percentage conditional back when it was being used for the Mo/E flag runner.

superraptors · Aug 11, 2009, 04:43 PM // 16:43

5 recharge old lod , only reason it was nerfed was 40/40 spam in pvp, keeping red bars above 80% easily which ultimately removed the need for rit party heals life + pwk

Yichi · Aug 11, 2009, 05:25 PM // 17:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fleeting

I don't remember LoD having a hp percentage conditional back when it was being used for the Mo/E flag runner.

The original skill had a 4 second recharge and would only heal party members under 80%.

It healed for a higher amount also, so 2 monks redbarring with LOD was way more than enough, even in hm. It got nerfed due to PvP reasons of every 2 monk team both having LoD.

snaek · Aug 11, 2009, 05:52 PM // 17:52

lod is better than hb's heal party or ua's divine/heavens. however, hb's heal party and ua's divine/heavens is sufficient enough to cover anything hm ever needs in terms of party healing + it provides a lot more. so why bother with lod when its overkill in terms of party healing but lacks in single-target healing which you would need moreso?

the only place i'd find for lod, is to make up for the lack of any kind of party heal on your other monk (i.e. woh).

woh heal/prot fusion + lod heal/prot fusion is still a formidible backline, as they can chain aegis among other synergies. however, its unlikely to get this in a pug as it requires more team coordination.