Curse

laksa and curry · Aug 12, 2009, 12:40 AM // 00:40

Which skill do you guys prefer after the 6/8 buffs?

I prefer SOA still.

The idea of swapping it for SH have crossed my mind so what do you guys reckon?

zelgadissan · Aug 12, 2009, 12:50 AM // 00:50

If you're good, SOA since there's a high chance of it reducing more damage. However, if you find yourself slacking off on your field awareness and catch yourself in an "oshit" moment, 1/4c with a steady reduction and a little top-off at the end will probably be more useful.

Eddie Frenzy Spam · Aug 12, 2009, 01:32 AM // 01:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by zelgadissan

If you're good, SOA since there's a high chance of it reducing more damage. However, if you find yourself slacking off on your field awareness and catch yourself in an "oshit" moment, 1/4c with a steady reduction and a little top-off at the end will probably be more useful.

Actually the only time it will reduce more damage is if you find a target takes a lot of spike damage within the first 2 or so seconds of it being put on the target and generally pre-protting with an SoA can be incredibly risky due to the amount of enchant strips at the moment.

Whereas SH can reduce a lot of simple Warrior train damage and any other damage coming a targets way for a longer amount of time and then you have to take into consideration the heal at the end of SH.

So while SoA is still better in certain situations, SH will reduce more damage in MORE situations, therefore making it the more viable choice.

zelgadissan · Aug 12, 2009, 02:27 AM // 02:27

Fair enough, I think I was leaning towards a PvE perspective and you were leaning towards a PvP perspective. In the world of deep strips like Rend, PoD, and the occasional Shatter Storm, I'd probably run SH as well.

Gift3d · Aug 12, 2009, 04:42 AM // 04:42

i think the only reason they buffed shielding hands was for the synergy with semi-unnerfed boon prot. i still prefer soa no doubt.

Burst Cancel · Aug 12, 2009, 04:53 AM // 04:53

Do the math and decide for yourself: @14 prot, SoA and SH return roughly equivalent health at eight packets (180 vs. 183); after eight, SoA quickly outstrips SH (225, 275, 330, etc.).

Prior to the update, SoA was the easy choice. In any situation where SoA was worse than SH (six packets or less, or <=100 damage prevented), SH wasn't worth using anyway. The new 47-point heal on SH makes SH competitive all the way up to 183 damage prevented, and gives significantly better gains at the low end; for some perspective, realize that it reaches the same efficiency as Patient Spirit at just four packets.

On the other hand, SoA has a unique effect that will save you in mass focus-fire or DoT situations where no other prot can even come close.

Racthoh · Aug 12, 2009, 05:36 AM // 05:36

The downtimes of the two leans me towards Shield of Absorption still. The after heal doesn't really appeal to me since it comes at the end. By that point the target will have already received heals and probably back into the range where a party heal will kick them back to full, creating situations where the Shielding Hands heal isn't taken to full effect.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

Do the math and decide for yourself: @14 prot, SoA and SH return roughly equivalent health at eight packets (180 vs. 183); after eight, SoA quickly outstrips SH (225, 275, 330, etc.).

Shielding Hands hits 167 at the 8th packet (15 * 8 = 120, 120 + 47 = 167) but either way it's the hit where Shield of Absorption is stronger. However also consider how many packets of damage the target would have to take where the prot isn't considered a waste. If you consider a 14 specced prot bar running say an 11 specced Gift of Health that's a 114 point heal (not including the Divine Favor bonus since all three spells would get it naturally). It would take Shielding Hands to the 5th packet of damage to become more effective than Gift of Health. You could even consider a 14 point Reversal of Fortune hitting for the full 76, effectively reducing 152 damage making it equal to the 7th packet on Shielding Hands. In theory if you could hit that ceiling reliably on boss fights with every cast.

Dismissing the Reversal of Fortune calculation and you're looking at a skill that is only going to be stronger on the 6th and 7th packet when put against Gift of Health and Shield of Absorption. The 1/2 faster cast use is there but its weight depends on the individual's ability to observe the battlefield.

snaek · Aug 12, 2009, 05:48 AM // 05:48

pve = seed of life
8v8 = soa
4v4 = sh

Grammar · Aug 12, 2009, 01:30 PM // 13:30

SoA is still better, because in any situation where SH would outperform SoA, another skill on your bar could have done the job just fine (usually a spot heal). In contrast, nothing else on your bar can do what SoA does.

Swahnee · Aug 12, 2009, 07:37 PM // 19:37

For me SoA is still better in PvE (especially in HM etc..) because the monsters like to hit the same characters a lot, so the break-even point between the two skills is reached with ease. In PvP i think that SH could be better for the reasons posted above.

maxxfury · Aug 13, 2009, 10:41 PM // 22:41

From Exp. damage soon hits 0's with soa which is something shielding hands CANT do.

Especially in Hm if you have a guy taking point and trying to hook up some agro(like warrior doing a corner pull ect) as they get focused and its WAY easier with soa to keep them from assploding.

Winterclaw · Aug 13, 2009, 10:46 PM // 22:46

One on one monk and the other on the second monk.

superraptors · Aug 13, 2009, 10:50 PM // 22:50

single packet of damage - shielding hands
multiple packet of damage - soa
both if you feel like it

Burst Cancel · Aug 14, 2009, 12:49 AM // 00:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

Shielding Hands hits 167 at the 8th packet (15 * 8 = 120, 120 + 47 = 167) but either way it's the hit where Shield of Absorption is stronger. Dismissing the Reversal of Fortune calculation and you're looking at a skill that is only going to be stronger on the 6th and 7th packet when put against Gift of Health and Shield of Absorption. The 1/2 faster cast use is there but its weight depends on the individual's ability to observe the battlefield.

According to wiki (http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Shielding_Hands), your numbers are wrong; SH prevents 17 per hit, giving us 8*17+47 = 183.

Apply that to the rest of the comparison and you get:
<4 packets: Gift
4-8 packets: SH
9+ packets: SoA

As I said, pre-buff SH was strictly inferior because SoA became better at ~100 damage prevented, so in any situation where SH was a better choice than SoA, you wouldn't be using either one. That's not the case anymore; SH now occupies the 4-8 packet range, which is something of a sweet spot when considering the ~8s duration on both SH and SoA.

But again, as I also stated previously, SoA has a unique and potentially very powerful effect. While SH can be matched somewhat by spot heals (WoH goes all the way to 213, after all), SoA can't really be replaced by anything.

laksa and curry · Aug 14, 2009, 01:17 AM // 01:17

Hmmm.. why not make room for both lol. BTW what do you guys think is there enough room for the both?^^

Swahnee · Aug 14, 2009, 07:42 AM // 07:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by laksa and curry

Hmmm.. why not make room for both lol. BTW what do you guys think is there enough room for the both?^^

Definitely yes in PvE..you can run a standard two monk backline, where one of them has SoA, the other SH, two copies of Aegis, one WoH, one PS (maybe the other monk could carry SB), a party heal like Seed of Life, etc.. if you don't run any HB/Heal Party build which forces you to waste space to power Heal Party, IMHO you would have enough space to carry both SoA and SH..

Racthoh · Aug 14, 2009, 08:26 AM // 08:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

According to wiki (http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Shielding_Hands), your numbers are wrong; SH prevents 17 per hit, giving us 8*17+47 = 183.

I have no idea why I was using the 12 spec reduction and the 14 spec heal. Oops.

Mr Emu · Aug 20, 2009, 06:03 PM // 18:03

you also have to consider that some of the reduction of SoA will be wasted once it zeros out the damage. ofc, that point is usually into the SoA range anyway

paranon · Aug 20, 2009, 06:24 PM // 18:24

In PvE it very much depends on how awake i am.. semi-asleep i will always go for shielding hands on a hybrid bar as i can just shove it on someone who is getting hit by multiple targets and it will reduce enough damage for me to keep them alive with woh and patient spirit, and give me enough time to move them away or disable the enemies.

If it is past 5pm then SoA all the way, if you use it on a target who is taking heavy damage then for the last 5-6 seconds of SoA they basically become an invinci tank, which definitely gives you enough time to do something about the damage they are taking.

If i am in an area that has lots of pressure or not many melee mobs, then i will often take seed of life, say what you will about it, if you put it on a target that is taking lots of hits, but not large packets, then it will keep them, and the rest of the team, topped up with health for 5 seconds, which, in a large fight, provides a welcome break and an opportunity to regain energy.

With regards to taking both, unless you know the other monk i wouldn't necessarily trust them to use whatever you gave them right, so in pug groups i always try and use a build that functions on its own, so i am not relying on others for prots and heals that aren't there.