Curse

ZenRgy · Sep 29, 2010, 03:35 PM // 15:35

It's a great emergency function. It's like rebirth, but elite with additional benefits. It doesn't outshine HB/WoH/any decent monk elite with a competent backline, but this is more pug friendly and caters to the heal party/seed of life spam that is PvE monking.

Age · Sep 30, 2010, 01:22 AM // 01:22

I didn't know the complete change to this skill untill I read mines description.I can see why SC would want it as it is light version of HB to bad it doesn't cover protection as well.

Essence Snow · Sep 30, 2010, 03:34 AM // 03:34

When I can take cons that give me a 100% instant tele rez...I'll agree that HB is more useful. Since I can gain almost all of HB's benefits via cons...I see no reason to take it.

Lanier · Sep 30, 2010, 04:08 AM // 04:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Essence Snow

When I can take cons that give me a 100% instant tele rez...I'll agree that HB is more useful. Since I can gain almost all of HB's benefits via cons...I see no reason to take it.

Oh, and you typically go about activating cons whenever you PvE, do you? Im not talking about speed clears, im talking about general PvE where players arnt going to waste x amount of k on cons. How many times do you use cons when you are vqing an area?

I miss the old days when the upper end of the playerbase agreed that bringing a rez on a monk was a waste of a skill slot... Really, leave the rezzing to your midline. Monks should be focused completely on keeping the party alive. That means 8 skills that are unmatched in keeping the party alive, and since HB is completely superior to UA in keeping people alive, HB > UA on a monk. Of course, I would still go with WoH or ZB or LoD usually, but yea...

Essence Snow · Sep 30, 2010, 04:14 AM // 04:14

I think a better question would be: When was the last time you healed while VQing? Most of the time I let h/h do that while I run a more leader oriented build. Even with full human team it is generally not that hard to keep them alive. Its not like they'll die depending on whether or not I'm running HB. If an area, or group, proves this wrong, chances are I'll be using cons anyhow so.....

Lanier · Sep 30, 2010, 06:43 PM // 18:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Essence Snow

I think a better question would be: When was the last time you healed while VQing? Most of the time I let h/h do that while I run a more leader oriented build. Even with full human team it is generally not that hard to keep them alive. Its not like they'll die depending on whether or not I'm running HB. If an area, or group, proves this wrong, chances are I'll be using cons anyhow so.....

Well i guess it all comes down to personal preference then. I enjoy healing more than dealing damage.

LifeInfusion · Oct 02, 2010, 01:43 AM // 01:43

I used LoD but it doesn't pack the punch it used to since most HM mobs spike for 250 when people are without prots. 66 at 14 Healing prayers with 6 cooldown is efficient though (same as 12 Healing Heal party and most health per heal http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Party_healing) and it doesn't have the 20-30 effective cooldown you get from having to rely on Glyph of lesser energy, Leech signet, Power drain, or Auspicious Incantation.

The nice part of HB monks and LoD monks is you don't need earshot like with Divine Healing.

I find I let people die more often when running UA because
A. less room for prots on the bar (10 to 12 +1+1 DF to get +50% or above UA so less prot in general)
B. less energy to work with
C. less problems with 3-6 second res
D. laziness to chase people running outside of my aggro bubble
E. try to avoid enchant stripping from mobs

a bit of numbers, assuming Superior DF on DF +1 headpiece and normally 14 Healing...

UA:
8 DF , switching to +1+3 headgear for the cast) 12 DF: +51%
9 DF--> 13 DF: +54%
10 DF --> 14 DF: +57%
11 DF --> 15 DF: +60%
12 DF --> 16 DF: +63%

What benefits most is Divine Healing, Heaven's Delight which would pump out:
12 DF: 51*1.51=77
13 DF: 54*1.54=83
14 DF: 57*1.57=89
15 DF: 60*1.60=96
16 DF: 63*1.63=103

Healer's Boon with Heal party at
13 Healing: 69*1.5 = 103
14 Healing: 72*1.5 = 108
15 Healing: 75*1.5 = 113
16 Healing: 78*1.5 = 117

If you are nuts on energy and run Heal party with UA:
14 (12+1+1) Healing Heal Party with 16 DF (12+1+2) UA = 117 (same as 16 Healing Heal party) so to match that you need a superior healing rune. Then you have 0 prots on your bar which leads to ultimate devastation since you have 3 pips of regen and a 15 energy skill that can be used every 30 seconds.

14 (12+1+1) Healing Heal Party with 14 DF (10+1+3) is more realistic since you can spec 8+1 in prot, You get 113 once again.

So probably for Heal party on UA
12+1+1 Healing
10+1 DF normal, 10+1+3 DF for UA recasts
8+1 Prot for prot spirit , SoA, aegis, etc.

Believe it or not I've seen UA monks with Glyph of lesser energy, Heal party and Ethereal light on their bar...people treat it like Healer's boon when it is not. Even when I ran LoD hybrid and arcane mimicry-ed a UA so that my LOD healed for 98, the energy loss is pretty heavy. Basically I had the power of a Healer's Boon Heal party with ~12 healing prayers.

At the same time:
14 Restor Protective was Kaolai = 80 Health on 25 cooldown
12 Restor Protective was Kaolai (N/Rt) = 70 Health on 25 cooldown, can be precasted

Xenomortis · Oct 04, 2010, 01:48 PM // 13:48

There's a reason why one shouldn't run Healer's Boon or UA when you lack the heavy protection given by ER Eles and Save Yourselve's, Life Infusion.
Both Healer's Boon and Unyielding Aura bars suffer from a lack of adequete protection, UA more than HB. At best, you can cast the odd Prot Spirit and cut heavily into your energy.
I've explained before when I consider UA or HB to be a decent choice to take and I've explained why in that situation, I consider UA to be the superior choice.
Also, Heal Party is a viable choice on the UA bar, but they will need GoLE or Auspicious Incantation to fuel it. They most certainly should not try to spam it however and simply use it if a large party heal is needed and Divine Healing and Heaven's Delight are on cool-down.
Etheral Light on the other hand is stupid. Pack DKiss instead.

A nice feature on the res from UA is that it can stop a bad situation accelerating. Typically, when someone dies you either leave them until the mob is defeated and run the risk of the mob overwhelimg your weakened team, or you have someone cut into their casting time (effectively removing them from play) by casting a resurrection skill. UA can res the player with minimal cost and prevent a bad situation from becoming worse. That simply pushes it over the top in my view.

LifeInfusion · Oct 05, 2010, 02:47 AM // 02:47

the issue is, with 2 monks + ER ele/paragon...that's 3/8 already used up just for defense. ER eles don't do damage, paragons do minimal damage in HM outside of spear attacks which do about +17 to +20. Maybe on a one monk team I can see a pure heal bar.

I dislike how the shift from hybrid bars has made monks into pure redbar.

EDIT: Spear of fury is +30...38...40 damage

Cuilan · Oct 05, 2010, 10:35 AM // 10:35

ER's bring and spam Great Dwarf Weapon for the assassins, rangers, dervish, and warriors.

Xenomortis · Oct 05, 2010, 10:32 PM // 22:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

the issue is, with 2 monks + ER ele/paragon...that's 3/8 already used up just for defense. ER eles don't do damage, paragons do minimal damage in HM outside of spear attacks which do about +17 to +20. Maybe on a one monk team I can see a pure heal bar.

An ER Ele replaces a monk backliner. Paragons are largely redundant. 3/8 on pure defence is overkill. A single ER with a monk speccing HB or UA is a decent choice (but I'm not sure if it's more stable than dual ERs).
It is possible for a team to run with a single ER Ele as the only backliner if they bring a decent amount of damage mitigation on the midline.

Lanier · Oct 06, 2010, 03:49 AM // 03:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

I dislike how the shift from hybrid bars has made monks into pure redbar.

Metagame shifts are wierd like that... but being meta doesn't mean its the best option available. Although pure redbar is fine when combined with a pure protter, rit spirit protter, or ER protter, hybrids are so flexible that I really think they are the best bet in the majority of parties. Three heals is plenty for redbarring and that leaves 5 skills for prots, removal skills, and energy management.

Age · Oct 07, 2010, 01:02 AM // 01:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

An ER Ele replaces a monk backliner. Paragons are largely redundant. 3/8 on pure defence is overkill. A single ER with a monk speccing HB or UA is a decent choice (but I'm not sure if it's more stable than dual ERs).
It is possible for a team to run with a single ER Ele as the only backliner if they bring a decent amount of damage mitigation on the midline.

I say a Monk can do it better and this is the Monk forum leave the Eles out of here and Necro.

Xenomortis · Oct 07, 2010, 11:43 AM // 11:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

I say a Monk can do it better and this is the Monk forum leave the Eles out of here and Necro.

I know what your biased and misinformed opinion is. You've thrown it around enough and it's no more credible than it's ever been.
However, when the topic of my original post was regarding using a Monk in a team setting where solid defense was provided*, I believe I'm justified in clarifying when people question it. Especially when their conclusions they make are based on a false interpretation.

*Ok, I didn't list ST Rits along with SY and ER, but nevermind that.

maxxfury · Oct 07, 2010, 01:31 PM // 13:31

Ideally id want 2x ER infuuuzer (or 1x ER infuuuzer and 1x AP monk) w/Sy added onto a frontliner and a weakness source...for 8 man areas....

Id probably only really want a UA or HB for the 12 man areas..for the huge amount of hp the party heals can deliver x12 people! and the insta/quicker res...for the situations you have to face like the degen rooms in urgoz ect.

I just cant see why you would need a redbar monk for anything but party/pressure mop up...when you already have THE spike heal on an ER infuuzer (which is like a woh hybrid on roids...)

The res is nice...but you shouldn't need to res often enough to warrant it...for me at least...

Xenomortis · Oct 07, 2010, 02:33 PM // 14:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxxfury

I just cant see why you would need a redbar monk for anything but party/pressure mop up...when you already have THE spike heal on an ER infuuzer (which is like a woh hybrid on roids...)

The lack of anything other than a big spike heal hurts. Constant heavy pressure is a real pain for an ER since they're forced to pretty much spam infuse and when it's time for ER to be reapplied, there's a real risk of something bad happening.
Monks with UA or HB don't have that problem. Unfortunatly they have the even bigger problem of being more or less helpless when their energy drops (which happens very easily if they're not economoical) and that they cannot save the team if the players putting prots up die unless the battle has already been won - an ER Ele can and so can a WoH Hybrid to an extent.
You lose a lot of raw power when switching to a UA monk in this situation, but you can make some gains by doing so.
Alternatively slotting some cleaning and anti-pressure healing like Blood Bond on the frontline alleviates a lot of problems, making UA and HB less desirable.

Edit:
This is something that you may not really appreciate until you try running an ER build in something like Slaver's Exile or Urgoz/Deep. Here, Monks can make a decent case (and it's very easy to take one in a 12 man area, harder in an 8 man).

Age · Oct 07, 2010, 03:18 PM // 15:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

I know what your biased and misinformed opinion is. You've thrown it around enough and it's no more credible than it's ever been.
However, when the topic of my original post was regarding using a Monk in a team setting where solid defense was provided*, I believe I'm justified in clarifying when people question it. Especially when their conclusions they make are based on a false interpretation.

I would say nothing can protect like we can and if I want to be biased in the Monk forum I will and I am not misinformed.

maxxfury · Oct 07, 2010, 04:29 PM // 16:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

The lack of anything other than a big spike heal hurts. Constant heavy pressure is a real pain for an ER since they're forced to pretty much spam infuse and when it's time for ER to be reapplied, there's a real risk of something bad happening.
Monks with UA or HB don't have that problem. Unfortunatly they have the even bigger problem of being more or less helpless when their energy drops (which happens very easily if they're not economoical) and that they cannot save the team if the players putting prots up die unless the battle has already been won - an ER Ele can and so can a WoH Hybrid to an extent.
You lose a lot of raw power when switching to a UA monk in this situation, but you can make some gains by doing so.
Alternatively slotting some cleaning and anti-pressure healing like Blood Bond on the frontline alleviates a lot of problems, making UA and HB less desirable.

Edit:
This is something that you may not really appreciate until you try running an ER build in something like Slaver's Exile or Urgoz/Deep. Here, Monks can make a decent case (and it's very easy to take one in a 12 man area, harder in an 8 man).

That was pretty much what i was gettin at ^ tho no, i havent run Er in slavers my self ^ so i cant commen on that part

but that why i had (monk in brackets for when 2 spike heals dont cut it with the pressure)

why take a monk, unless you need the party/pressure healing? obviously some areas you DO need the pressure mop up... tho i think there is a case for an AP monk who can keep SOL up 100%, aegis up 100% ect as a viable pressure 'healer' instead of UA/HB. Personally i really only enjoy playing AP on a monk these days...*sigh..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

I would say nothing can protect like we can and if I want to be biased in the Monk forum I will and I am not misinformed.

Its the SPELLS! not the monk..and any class that can afford the energy for them can use them as well with a monk 2ndry...and with SUPERIOR energy managment, like a ER that has all but INFINITE energy and can use the SPELLS more often, with less drawbacks...and when you add in a free infuze (with a self heal for the health sacrifice afterwards when you cast ANYTHING..) you have a much better platform to use prots prayers from...

And NO divine favour doesnt make up for the sheer brute force an ER brings with godly energy for abusing prots, especially 10e ps + sb and prot bond's maintained cost...and the infuse abuse..

Tho ill say no more on this as it wont register past the bias..

Coast · Oct 07, 2010, 04:51 PM // 16:51

ua is le best

maxxfury · Oct 07, 2010, 04:55 PM // 16:55

feel free to elaborate :P