Curse

reaper with no name · Sep 22, 2010, 02:57 PM // 14:57

Many bad monks still prefer pure redbarring over prot. For those sorts of players, skills like HB and UA look like a godsend. And since these monks often end up with a lot of dead players as a result, the instant rez of UA makes it doubly attractive. Also, prot requires more skill than pure healing, and as we all know, most PUG players have a low skill level.

As for why good monks would ever run it...well, it's one of the few things monks can do better than ER healers (though to be honest, in most areas I can't imagine an ER healer needing to resurrect people in the first place).

Warrior Babes · Sep 22, 2010, 04:29 PM // 16:29

well, ua is usefull in speedclears, prots are not, because.. u should have enough with Seed of Life.
UA goes rly well with ''speedy'' tactics, like.. Running past mobs, must someone die.. instant full res. or just on places where dieing/res up is faster then running around.

WoH and HB are still nice in normal pve.. rolling trough the campaign
but saying UA is for bad monks is kinda..

Lanier · Sep 22, 2010, 04:56 PM // 16:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warrior Babes

well, ua is usefull in speedclears, prots are not, because.. u should have enough with Seed of Life.
UA goes rly well with ''speedy'' tactics, like.. Running past mobs, must someone die.. instant full res. or just on places where dieing/res up is faster then running around.

WoH and HB are still nice in normal pve.. rolling trough the campaign
but saying UA is for bad monks is kinda..

So wait... you are saying that UA is good because it is used in speed clears? Uh, ok then. Anyway, I don't think we should base how good a spell is on how it performs in a niche section of the game that is focused soley on speed anyway.

Anyway, In my opinion, HB > UA always. The monk's job isn't to rez anyway and rezzing is the only advantage UA has over the alternatives. That said, I wouldn't say HB is very good either. Unless I am rolling with a dedicated healer or protter as a hero of mine, I tend to prefer using hybrid bars or ones with mostly prots. WoH, LoD, and ZB are my favorite elites, and choosing between them is dependent on what area im playing in. Typically, I prefer ZB because I can then use gift of health as my secondary heal (RoF is then my spot heal). If using WoH, then ill slot in patient spirit as my secondary heal and sig of rejuvenation as a tertiary/cheap heal. LoD I usually run with patient spirit and one of the expensive spike heals. Then I fill the rest of my bar with prots, removal spells, and usually gole.

DigitalFear · Sep 22, 2010, 05:01 PM // 17:01

I don't like UA myself. I'd rather go ZB/RC prot or HB/WoH heal.

If you're good you should not have dead party members thus UA is inferor to HB in most cases as a healing prayers augment. The hct buff is actually very helpful.

I'm more of a fan of Prot though. A good prot mitigates so much more damage than a simple heal. Use RC if there's a lot of conditions for a ton of redbar/condition removal and ZB when there are not.

Arrogant Bastard · Sep 22, 2010, 05:22 PM // 17:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warrior Babes

well, ua is usefull in speedclears, prots are not, because.. u should have enough with Seed of Life.
UA goes rly well with ''speedy'' tactics, like.. Running past mobs, must someone die.. instant full res. or just on places where dieing/res up is faster then running around.

WoH and HB are still nice in normal pve.. rolling trough the campaign
but saying UA is for bad monks is kinda..

Speedclears use plenty of prots.

Warrior Babes · Sep 22, 2010, 06:05 PM // 18:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanier

So wait... you are saying that UA is good because it is used in speed clears? Uh, ok then. Anyway, I don't think we should base how good a spell is on how it performs in a niche section of the game that is focused soley on speed anyway.

Quote:

haven't touched my monk in ages but I see UA is all the rage these days.

k so lanier, i did just quote the OP.. i dont think he is talking about canthan missions either. so i just explained why UA is better then the other monks stuff in sc...

Quote:

Speedclears use plenty of prots.

talking about the monks here.. srsly
Guild Wars Forums - GW Guru > The Hall of Knowledge > The Campfire > Monk > The UA hype: is it better than WoH, HB?

if ur talking about bonds, they are overrated.. >>

BLOODGOAT · Sep 22, 2010, 06:20 PM // 18:20

Pop cons and UA is awesome. Get it up to 72% healing bonus (19 DF) and swap out to a Healing headpiece and enjoy Patient Spirit healing for ~300, Heal Party healing for ~150, Dwayna's Kiss healing for ~400 (on an appropriate target, of course), and the like.

Sure, the energy management might not be as nice. But it's PvE, just bring Selfless Spirit and don't worry about it.

Arrogant Bastard · Sep 22, 2010, 07:07 PM // 19:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warrior Babes

k so lanier, i did just quote the OP.. i dont think he is talking about canthan missions either. so i just explained why UA is better then the other monks stuff in sc...

talking about the monks here.. srsly
Guild Wars Forums - GW Guru > The Hall of Knowledge > The Campfire > Monk > The UA hype: is it better than WoH, HB?

if ur talking about bonds, they are overrated.. >>

You should really verify that speedclears with monks don't use any prots before you attempt to insult me, because now you just look like a re-tard.

Also, bonds aren't overrated.

own age myname · Sep 22, 2010, 08:26 PM // 20:26

If you're a good monk, the -1 pip doesn't even matter. That's why UA > HB.

Milennin · Sep 22, 2010, 08:39 PM // 20:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by own age myname

If you're a good monk, the -1 pip doesn't even matter. That's why UA > HB.

If you're a good Monk your teammates don't die...

own age myname · Sep 22, 2010, 08:42 PM // 20:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Milennin

If you're a good Monk your teammates don't die...

PUGs have a tendency to go Leroy/overextend/get spiked without prots. With guildies/friends it doesn't matter, because UA and HB are equal in terms of that. But might as well have a "oh shi-" button. Because energy is rarely a problem.

Milennin · Sep 22, 2010, 08:43 PM // 20:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by own age myname

PUGs have a tendency to go Leroy/overextend/get spiked without prots.

Who actually still PUG's these days anyway.=p

own age myname · Sep 22, 2010, 08:44 PM // 20:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Milennin

Who actually still PUG's these days anyway.=p

FoWSC. I rarely play GW1 anymore, so idk if it's still popular. But that was my main form of PUGs.

Sankt Hallvard · Sep 22, 2010, 08:56 PM // 20:56

What's the point of playing unless you pug?

Lanier · Sep 22, 2010, 09:41 PM // 21:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sankt Hallvard

What's the point of playing unless you pug?

this a serious question? like really? with the way pugs act nowadays, im kind of surprised people still pug at all.

ZephyLynx · Sep 22, 2010, 11:38 PM // 23:38

For the vast majority of the time, prot > heal, prevention is better than the cure. This is only magnified in Hard Mode. Who cares if you can throw a 400-500 point heal if a single prot spirit can reduce the damage to 40-60. Guardian alone is better than half of the healing line. In Hard Mode, the AI casters hit for 40-60 damage on a squishy character just by wanding. You can half that with just Guardian. Red barring is not too useful if your teammates are just going to get hit again.

That being said, you still need some form of red barring, smaller heals with utility, like dismiss condition is what I prefer. I almost always run some form of hybrid bar, because I can actively prot with something called field awareness. An instant rez is nice, but keeping your team members alive in the first place is much better. Too many conditions? Bring Restore Condition or Life Sheath. Too many hexes? Bring Empathetic Removal or have both monks bring Remove Hex or another fast recharging hex removal or even Expel Hexes.

Learn to pre-prot and analyze your team. In pugs, find the over-extenders, and pre-prot them. Check out the team builds before you go in. If you see an ele with Sever Artery, ask him/her to change or leave that group. There is no need to bring UA for just an instant rez. If you want boosted heals, use HB. Very few prot skills have synergy with UA.

Sankt Hallvard · Sep 22, 2010, 11:45 PM // 23:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanier

this a serious question? like really? with the way pugs act nowadays, im kind of surprised people still pug at all.

It's a serious question. If anything pugs are better now than they were.

As opposed to pug monking I don't see much incentive. If you monk in some farming setup or speed clear operation, doesn't it get freakishly boring? And if you monk with friends/guildies, doesn't it get just too easy? (assuming your guild is somewhat decent) If you have that many friends I would assume taking the next step(pvp) would be the answer. Just curious.

Chthon · Sep 23, 2010, 02:40 AM // 02:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anime Divine

lol glaive can do hm its just not called glaiveway just frost way

frostway != glaiveway. Frostway adds a THIRD backline character completely dedicated to damage prevention (the Soul Twister) to compensate for the complete lack of damage prevention in the HB+UA backline. This is essentially an admission that the all-redbarup HB+UA backline is a failure in HM; if it wasn't, why spend another valuable character slot helping them keep people alive?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meridon

UA is the one skill that almost never leaves my bar as monk. Not because of the rez, but because it synergizes with 75%+ of all monk skills. It works great in almost any situation, with any build. HB makes you are pure redbarrer with little room for utility. UA has practically the same amount of redbarring potential, with lotsof room for utility.

The -1 e-regen is equivalent to multiplying all your skill costs by 1.25. For straight heals, and even a fair number of skills with a significant healing component, the healing boost is worth far more than the added cost. For skills that are not heals (or have a healing component that is largely secondary) you've actually got a pretty nasty anti-synergy. For instance, you're paying the equivalent of 12.5e for PS and Aegis, with no benefit to show for the extra cost. The further you stray from an all-redbarup build, the more this hurts you. Which leaves you in a predicament: all-redbarup builds are bad, but a UA hybrid works against itself worse and worse the more you hybridize. The best solution tends to be just not using UA.

LifeInfusion · Sep 23, 2010, 02:55 AM // 02:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanier

this a serious question? like really? with the way pugs act nowadays, im kind of surprised people still pug at all.

PUG monking with prots is probably the most diverse role I've played. If you play a frontliner or midliner it isn't the same as playing backline. That's because what *other* people do matters much more than what you do and learning to manage energy and pre-prot is harshest on the monk (selfless spirit is a cop out).

But honestly, when the 5 or so people that I ever see online it's hard to do anything wit rea live players so PUGing is the way unless I go hero/hench.

ZephyLynx · Sep 23, 2010, 03:02 AM // 03:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meridon

UA is the one skill that almost never leaves my bar as monk. Not because of the rez, but because it synergizes with 75%+ of all monk skills. It works great in almost any situation, with any build.

What 75%? UA for a heal boost is only good on direct healing skills. That is most of the Healing Prayers line, Heaven's Delight/Divine Healing, Dismiss Condition, and pretty much nothing else.

Edit: I guess UA can be used for Watchful Spirit and Watchful Healing, but hardly anyone uses that. The small heal from Shielding Hands and Shield Guardian would also be boosted. Shielding Hand's heal is too small to matter, and most monks don't use Shield Guardian (10 energy).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

The -1 e-regen is equivalent to multiplying all your skill costs by 1.25. For straight heals, and even a fair number of skills with a significant healing component, the healing boost is worth far more than the added cost. For skills that are not heals (or have a healing component that is largely secondary) you've actually got a pretty nasty anti-synergy. For instance, you're paying the equivalent of 12.5e for PS and Aegis, with no benefit to show for the extra cost. The further you stray from an all-redbarup build, the more this hurts you. Which leaves you in a predicament: all-redbarup builds are bad, but a UA hybrid works against itself worse and worse the more you hybridize. The best solution tends to be just not using UA.

Chthon hit it right on. In general, prot > red barring, and UA does more harm than good for almost all prot skills.