Curse

delphwind · Jun 17, 2011, 06:38 PM // 18:38

My wife and I had planned on playing GW2 and wanted to get a taste of the game first, so we got the trilogy from the NCSoft store and jumped into GW.

So far we really like it, we've been through most of Prophecies as a W/R and a E/Me but have been running into some real problems. We hate admitting defeat and being forced to run back to town and hire a group of mercs, but it's getting to the point now that nearly every quest we do requires that we do so

We decided to finally do some research and found that each class has some pretty key skills that make it viable in PvE to run without a merc group. So we started some new characters in Factions.

We fell in love with the lore and surroundings of Factions and decided to make a good run of it and leave Prophecies behind for a little while.

We researched some information and ended up with an A/Mo and a Mo/E

The following is our strategy and we are hopeful that it will get us through the vast majority of the PvE game without the need of mercs/heroes.

A/Mo:
Maintaining Vigerious Spirit and Live Vicariously while focusing on Critical Strike and running the skill Critical Eye for the energy gains/crit.

Attributes will look SOMETHING like this:
Dagger Mastery 11+1+2
Critical Strike 12+1
Healing Prayers 6

Mo/E:
Running with a Smite/Prot build and maintaining Zealot's Fire on the assassin and spamming Reversal of Fortune, Shielding Hands, and Guardian. These skills will hopefully keep her alive along with her Vigerious Spirit, and Live Vicariously buffs while also doing some decent AoE damage through the use of Zealot's Fire.

Attributes will look SOMETHING like this:
Smite 12+1+2
Protection 11+1
??? (Maybe Earth for the knockdown and AoE damage, or Healing Prayers for some extra heals when we get into a pinch)

So far we are level 9 and it is working pretty well, I toss Zealot's Fire on her, she Shadow Steps into the fray of mobs, I toss Shielding Hands and Guardian on her and begin my smiting routine, OR if there is heavy damage, spam Reversal of Fortune until enough of the mobs are dea and her Vigerous Spirit and Live Vicariously buffs can heal her well enough that I can help finish the rest of the mobs off.

The few times I get mobs on me I usually just drop a few AoE spells and they scatter to the wind and we pick them off one by one.

Will this setup be enough to run the majority of the game without Mercs? Or will be have to admit defeat again at some point in our teens?

Feedback?

Thanks!

Essence Snow · Jun 17, 2011, 06:49 PM // 18:49

If you mean duo as in just 2 of ya'll in your party...then I am afraid the setup will not be enough.

If you mean duo as ya'll 2 and henchmen/heros....then yeah you'll be fine.

There are definately some skills that synergize well between melee and smite monks.....Strength of Honor (soh) being the 1st one that comes to mind, Judge's Insight, smite hex/condition,...etc.

It actually should be possible to truely duo most of the game using Shadow Form tank/farmer and a Bonder.....It would be very slow for most things though.

delphwind · Jun 17, 2011, 07:12 PM // 19:12

I mean duo as just us, NO henchmen, or heroes.

As I am at work, my researching skills are limited. What does Strength of Honor, do, and what is a "bonder"?

We are not concerned with speed, we just want to be able to run content without the amazingly annoying henchmen (god they are stupid sometimes)

jackinthe · Jun 17, 2011, 07:39 PM // 19:39

unfortunately, a lot of the game is based around full team play.
unless you want to end up running something like a 600/tank with a bonder, you will need to add henchmen, or heroes that you can customize if you make it to nightfall or eye of the north

halfies · Jun 17, 2011, 07:52 PM // 19:52

as everyone above says, trying to not use heroes and henchmen is gonna be slow, and require alot of time optimizing builds. what are your objections to using henchies? just out of interest

tcratty · Jun 17, 2011, 07:53 PM // 19:53

later in the game you are going to get owned you will find that heros are your friends not like them stupid henchies you can get in town there are missions/quests that you will have to keep NPCs alive and in nighfall missions require that bring certain heros with or you cant even do them

Spiritz · Jun 17, 2011, 07:56 PM // 19:56

Ok - if you have played other mmo`s then forget everything as gw is a cut above the rest and uses diff tactics.
Firstly as duo you will fail - not thru lack of experiance but 2 things - nf missions may require a certain hero and without it wont allow access and the other is - many foes have either pbao ( point blank area of effect ) and will cause dmg without needing a target - eg get too close and you will get singed , also loads have pbaoe enchant stripping which will remove your bonds/enchants easily - dervishes.
The reason ( most will disagree but wth ) we have heros/hench is because the game was designed as pick up group and if players were unable to team up then h/h can be used ( way i see it lol ).
Im judging youre faily early into the game but as you progress you will understand things a lot better and see gw in a new light ( sometimes its a hard light lol ).

halfies · Jun 17, 2011, 08:16 PM // 20:16

apart from the heroes for NF im sure it would be possible to do all of GW duo. but it would take alot of knowledge of enemies bars, the proper counters, and the options available. doing it all with an assassin and a monk with limited skill choices would require experience which it sounds like you dont have, and i mean no offence when i say that.
if you want to duo it all make that your aim, but you should probably get few elites unlocked and all the missions done at least once. also using the wiki to check monsters skill bars is essential, and i would recommend going to www.gwpvx.com to see some of the bars that are in common usage, at least that will tell you what skills are overpowerd, and which skills are useless.
also, i know its my second post, but w/e i decided to be more in depth

Lillium · Jun 17, 2011, 08:21 PM // 20:21

Guild Wars is a team based game. While it is possible to run about with some very specific builds as just 1-4 players/heroes, you're not going to be managing that anytime soon. Much less as new players. Not to say don't try it, but: Don't try it.
Like most games, it will be more enjoyable if played the way it was intended to be played. In the case of Guild Wars, that means bringing around a team of heroes and/or henchmen. Try to not think of this like a game like WoW or Rift, but more like Dragon Age Origins or Neverwinter Nights 2.

Also, this is probably in the wrong forum section. This topic really isn't about monk builds. (Although monks are what you would abuse to go through most things as a small party.) >.>

Martin Firestorm · Jun 17, 2011, 08:22 PM // 20:22

You're not going to like GW with just the two of you--way too frustrating. Work with the henchmen, trying differnt combinations until you find one that works best for you. You can flag them (check the wiki for details) to get them to stay in a particular place, which may reduce their stupidity. When you get heroes you can change their builds and flag them individually, instead of as a group, which will help more.

delphwind · Jun 17, 2011, 08:25 PM // 20:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by halfies

what are your objections to using henchies? just out of interest

Using henchmen, to me, feels like I am doing something wrong, if I cant do it as a duo (my wife and I) then we are doing something wrong. I am not opposed to using gimmik builds or taking forever to complete a mission due to lack of damage or whatever.

Also, the henchmen are generally dumb as bricks, they constantly run around like chickens with their heads cut off, and more often then not, INTO other groups causing near group wipes. I have yet to use Heroes and am not sure if their AI is better or not.

delphwind · Jun 17, 2011, 08:39 PM // 20:39

I am at work so my responces are kinda slow..

Thanks for all the responces .. I think I cna wrap them up in one post though.

We did come into this game with knowledge from WoW, Rift, EQ etc. and fully understand that parts of the game will be nearly impossible without a group, but as complete idio... new people we are getting owned by the most basic of fights and are requiring henchmen to get us through. After my initial research I realized out class and skill choices were WAY wrong so we decided to do some reading and thats when we came up with the aforementioned classes.

I am in no way opposed to grouping, it just seems like at this stage in the game people are either stuck in town chatting, or in an established guild already .. I have no desire to join a guild on a cold invite (which I have gotten far too many times so far).

So that leaves us playing as a duo until GW2 comes out, which we fully intend on finding a good guild and solid group that fits our playstyles.

It is good to hear that heroes are a bit more intellegent but from what I have read you do not get them until the Nightfall expansion .. such a shame

I appologize for this post getting so off-topic, I did not expect it to go so far away from the "Monk Build" discussion.

Robin Hood Uk · Jun 17, 2011, 09:15 PM // 21:15

If your failing as a duo, it isn't you doing anything wrong. As mentioned, the game is balanced around the maximum party size. If your in a 8-man party area, and theres 2 of you, of course you will be overwhelmed.

It might suffice with two of you now, as the monsters will have very limited bars using only a few skills, and no elite skills.

Once you progress in the game, not only will you encounter more foes at a time, they will utilize different elements and professions, so instead of maybe facing only assasins, ritualists and elementalists, you will have mesmers shutting down your monk, warriors cutting through your low armor and necromancers removing all your enchantments. That is pretty hard to counter with just two people.

Not to mention the foes will start doing way more damage that vigorous spirit/live vicarously heals for, plus there will be use of elites that are considerably stronger than basic skills.

What your trying to do is like going into a current tier raid on wow with just a fury warrior and a priest - it's not really going to work too great, and if it does, it won't be worth the effort.

TL;DR: You will hit that brick wall you asked about

halfies · Jun 17, 2011, 09:37 PM // 21:37

you should join a guild like KISS or TIG, as sad as it makes me to advertise for them. they are at least friendly and used to new players. also, just adding henchmen is a good way to do it, if you set up your team with a good variation of back mid and front liners , you should be able to roll all of factions nm with hench. and if you have eye of the north you should definitely do that as soon as its available for you, to get some heroes whose bars you can set your selves since that will almost certainly be better than henchmen

Mouse at Large · Jun 17, 2011, 09:39 PM // 21:39

This is a pretty mature game, so it's daunting to start out at the bottom rung of the ladder

My advice is to read wiki and here so frustration won't get the better of you. I know it's tempting to go through and learn everything yourself, but you do risk some very annoying situations.

Bite the bullet and use the NPCs (henchies and eventually heroes). It's a much more playable game if you do

The Guildless · Jun 17, 2011, 09:46 PM // 21:46

Quick tip: If I'm not mistaken, henchmen follow the party leader (please someone correct me if I'm wrong), so it might be wiser to let the non-melee character be the party leader so they less tend to run in enemies. The downside is, if the melee character runs off too far, the henchmen might not catch up in time to heal etc.

Not sure if it'll help or not, but it's something to keep in mind.

Demon of FIRE · Jun 17, 2011, 09:54 PM // 21:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by delphwind

Also, the henchmen are generally dumb as bricks, they constantly run around like chickens with their heads cut off, and more often then not, INTO other groups causing near group wipes. I have yet to use Heroes and am not sure if their AI is better or not.

I wouldn't say the AI is better, but being able to customize the skills allows you to pick skills they will use well. Also you can use flagging to position your heroes away from danger and you can even change their stance (Don't attack (something like that), Guard and attack).

delphwind · Jun 18, 2011, 05:29 PM // 17:29

So we decided to run through Nightfall first to get the heros, and I have to say, they are quite a bit more useful than the henchmen.

If we run through the Nightfall campaign can we still go back through all the content we missed in Prophecies and Factions?

BTW we made a E/P and a R/W and with Koss and Dunkoro with us we are cleaning house ..

Thanks for all the advice, it's really put this game into a different perceptive for me!

P.S. Holy Shit Nightfall really throughs you right into the fire, these quest dont pull any punchs lol

Tommy's · Jun 18, 2011, 06:10 PM // 18:10

Yes you still can go back to the other campaigns

Once you reached a certain point in the game (which is quite soon) you are able to take some quests to take your characters to the other continents. After that, there is a big boat on the map which can take you to the other continents in the game any time.

And like others have said, this game is build around full parties (being it 4,6,8 or 12 depending on the area). In normal mode (as opposed to Hard Mode, but that will be of later matter to you

) you can bring down these numbers really well, but there is not really a reason why I could advice you that. After a small time of gameplay you'll learn how heroes work and you learn what to do to avoid them from running into other groups etc. One tip: Put them on guard mode (unless its a dedicated healer, then put it on avoid combat). You can switch mods by pressing on the little number in a red square in front of your heroes name, and then on the right I believe you see 3 option: attack - guard - avoid combat.

Hope that helps

thetwistedboy · Jun 18, 2011, 07:34 PM // 19:34

If you are using henchman and heroes, you aren't doing anything wrong. It's sad, but GW was built as a social PuG game but that aspect died years ago. Henchman were originally added to fill places in a group. You're missing a monk? Add a henchman. Heroes were introduced because henchman had fixed bars and were simply not good enough in endgame and elite areas.

As mentioned, Guild Wars is balanced around the max party size. If you have two people and can't find any people to join you, you are supposed to add heroes to fill your groups' weaknesses.

Duoing Guild Wars is going to be a massive pain for you because of the variability of the enemies in each area.

If you want to, you can probably think of heroes as pretty new players that use whatever build/equipment you tell them to, do whatever you say, and have beyond godlike reflexes.