Curse

Song Rui · Sep 22, 2006, 12:14 PM // 12:14

flame more.

I never said Mesmers were useless. I said they were useless in pve. And I've already been over empathy. What elite would you use over SS anyway?

Surge is good but the recharge is bad when Rodgorts invocation will do alot more + burning.

Claudia Starlight · Sep 22, 2006, 12:27 PM // 12:27

...Energy surge? haha
Oh and that's one good thing about mesmer i guess, you don't have to rely on an elite to define your build... which could also mean that mesmer elites are no better than normal skills, but that really doesn't bother me

Anyway, you seem to imply that mesmers ARE useless, when they are NOT.
Every class has its use in different ways, that's why ANet made them anyway, or it's just a big waste of time and money and the game would be better off having only 2 or 3 classes.

Also, it's important to take into account the skill of the person who plays the mesmer. A monk would be considered *useless* if he only uses Orison of Healing and Vengeance to heal his often dead allies, no?

And surge is CHAOS based and will do solid 80 or 90 damage when used in the beginning of an encounter.

Rodgorts is flame based, try casting Rodgort on fiery enemies without the aid Winter.

Effigy · Sep 22, 2006, 12:46 PM // 12:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Song Rui

flame more.

I never said Mesmers were useless. I said they were useless in pve. And I've already been over empathy. What elite would you use over SS anyway?

Surge is good but the recharge is bad when Rodgorts invocation will do alot more + burning.

Funny how you choose to ignore any point that you can't argue with. I've already explained that mesmer skills do armor ignoring damage, which is more than I can say for Rodgort's. Against high level mobs, the AoE from RI will be dealing laughable damage and the 3 sec burning only amounts to 21 damage. Not to mention the 25e cost.

Give it up. You don't have a valid argument; you just keep making the same point over and over without any logical justification and you ignore feedback from anyone who has half a clue. You might want to review the following term:

trolling - n. 2. Posting derogatory messages about sensitive subjects on newsgroups and chat rooms to bait users into responding.

LightningHell · Sep 22, 2006, 12:59 PM // 12:59

I will slap anyone who says they will bring an Elementalist over a Mesmer for damage.

And I'm saying this as an Elly prime.

lightblade · Sep 22, 2006, 01:04 PM // 13:04

Backfire - AI does cast through Backfire...and very often...if you know which profession AI cast through Backfire a lot. Mesmer and Necromancers usually cast faster and a lot more than Monk and Elementists, thus will trigger Backfire a lot.

Empathy - it's a non-elite skill that can pretty much do damage to all.

And shutdown...appearantly OP never played with a good mesmer, that can shutdown 2 or even 3 enemies.

Avarre · Sep 22, 2006, 01:28 PM // 13:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Song Rui

Oh yeah go and make personal attacks. My spelling is fine. I did that earlier in the topic on purpose to test if people would argue the point or do what you just did. hah.

Essentially, in that case, you're trolling. My commendations, but it doesn't make you right.

A myriad of elites for PvE is better than surge. Unfortunately, to see the reasoning for this you would have had to read other parts of the forum that are buried after long debates with people that seem to think taking on the entire forum makes them smarter.

Ineptitude, Energy Drain, Expel Hexes, Mantras of Recall and Recovery are all examples of these.

yesitsrob · Sep 22, 2006, 01:38 PM // 13:38

To be quite honest, mesmers aren't that great in pve.... there's very little they can do in pve that another class cannot do simply by exploiting the terrible AI. eg. nuking. I don't need to shut down mobs with empathy and clumsiness when I could just shit a meteor shower on them which they all fail to move out of.

I like having a mesmer around to deal with bosses. Watrel's Spam, and shutting a boss down actually means something

Hollerith · Sep 22, 2006, 03:34 PM // 15:34

Ineptitude+Clumsiness can probably deal more damage than SS when the MS comes out. There are several different ways mesmers can spread Deep Wound. Degen can be spread to foes even easier (can have 3 foes at -8 before the first meteor hits).

Those are just offensive guidelines. Defensively, there's the easily spreadable blind, the snoozefest that Powerblock causes pve casters, along with the normal caster interrupts/screws.

At any rate, pve with henchies goes a lot smoother on my mesmer. I get far more masters than on my ele.

edit re: the ele: their damage sucks against anything other than cloth casters in pve.

the_jos · Sep 22, 2006, 06:02 PM // 18:02

A good mesmer can make killing the enemies easier.

Shutting down the monk (and remove Mark of Protection while the others keep attacking the enemy and wonder why it's health is going up....).

Degen all enemies that are not taking direct damage from nukers/tank.

Protect the backline with blinding skills (Ineptitude / epidemic)

Making life easier for tank (Sympathetic/Ancestor's visage on tank and melee enemies are shut down very fast). Also the blinding here.

Shutting down bosses or kill them faster.

All can be done by other characters (interrupt Ranger, curses /death (non-mm) Necro).
Interrupt Rangers are somewhat slower and cannot stop a cast like shame/guilt and Necro's have to take a somewhat less favored build, but it's possible.

I think the mesmer shines when he/she knows the enemies' skills and their counters.
And it's hard to constantly think about the right skills, while you can do most of PvE with a default set of skills on other characters.
My SS, boon-prot, Rit Lord, Barrager all have the same basic builds about 90% of the time. The only chars on which I keep shifting skills are my Sin and Me.
Perhaps the reason many people 'hate' Sin and Me is because you have to think about the build and most GW players seem to ignore that.

I once had a W, but found out I could finish the game faster and with less thinking than any other char (it was my 3th or 4th char).
No fun, so delete.

Song Rui · Sep 23, 2006, 06:57 AM // 06:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hollerith

Ineptitude+Clumsiness can probably deal more damage than SS when the MS comes out. There are several different ways mesmers can spread Deep Wound. Degen can be spread to foes even easier (can have 3 foes at -8 before the first meteor hits).

Those are just offensive guidelines. Defensively, there's the easily spreadable blind, the snoozefest that Powerblock causes pve casters, along with the normal caster interrupts/screws.

At any rate, pve with henchies goes a lot smoother on my mesmer. I get far more masters than on my ele.

edit re: the ele: their damage sucks against anything other than cloth casters in pve.

and then have to wait forever for them to recharge.

What are you guys on about? RI does tonne of damage + degen no matter wut.

TeeGee · Sep 23, 2006, 08:33 AM // 08:33

Mesmer makes enemies easier to kill...

Mesmer makes enemies deal much less damage to you...

Mesmer does a lot of armor ignoring damage...

Mesmer removes hexes from you...

Mesmer makes good PvE character...

Claudia Starlight · Sep 23, 2006, 09:52 AM // 09:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Song Rui

and then have to wait forever for them to recharge.

What are you guys on about? RI does tonne of damage + degen no matter wut.

No matter what what? It's fire elemental and only burns the enemy for like 3 seconds

-Conjure Nightmare recharges for 5 secs.. sure it's single target but it's -8 degen for 15 seconds with max Illusion
-Enemy spellcasters cast away while Backfired

Have you tried doing Nahpui and beating the mesmer boss last yet?

By the way, you still didn't state your purpose of making this thread, and you did not consider opinions that are valid.
A good critic acknowledges valid arguments instead of avoiding them.

EDIT: That is, if you made this thread for criticizing purposes.

NinjaKai · Sep 23, 2006, 07:51 PM // 19:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Song Rui

Finally. Someone who knows what they're talking about.

Why did you even bother making this thread? You aren't even taking in the feedback you've been given. Your just dismissing everything thats been posted. Stop wasting peoples time if you can't be bothered to listen what you asked for.

Icepic · Sep 23, 2006, 08:00 PM // 20:00

Song Rui, until about a month ago I also looked at the mesmer as usless in PvE. In my case it was a misconception that I based on nothing more than my unfamiliarity with them. I finally tried a mesmer and found it not only a lot more fun to play than I had expected, but I was able to move farther through the game faster than I did with my other chars (even when I was henching it). If you havn't already tried playing one give it a try. Maybe you will be pleasantly suprised like I was. As for the origional question, I think what makes the mesmer so good in PvE is the ability to fill so many rolls based on your needs for that zone/mission or group at the time.

NinjaKai · Sep 23, 2006, 09:31 PM // 21:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Icepic

I think what makes the mesmer so good in PvE is the ability to fill so many rolls based on your needs for that zone/mission or group at the time.

As the saying goes knowledge is power. If you have knowledge of the monsters in the area your enterting, attack types, etc. Like a good mesmer, i'm not you need to be smart to be a mesmer. But there is a definitive level of difference in performance depending on ones knowledge of the game.

capblueberry · Sep 23, 2006, 09:33 PM // 21:33

i personally consider them a better damage dealer then an ele just cuz of the aoe that ele's rely on

Lady Lozza · Sep 23, 2006, 11:14 PM // 23:14

You know somewhere around here is hidden a skill called mantra of flame, I'm sure also find one called mantra of flame-bait too if we looked hard enough.

LightningHell · Sep 24, 2006, 01:05 AM // 01:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Song Rui

and then have to wait forever for them to recharge.

What are you guys on about? RI does tonne of damage + degen no matter wut.

Clumsiness has 10 recharge.
Ineptitude has 20 recharge.

In contrast...

Meteor Shower has 60 recharge.

Song Rui · Sep 24, 2006, 06:37 AM // 06:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

Clumsiness has 10 recharge.
Ineptitude has 20 recharge.

In contrast...

Meteor Shower has 60 recharge.

except that ms isnt your main damage dealer. RI is. You also have fireball, meteor and immolate....among others. They are high damaging, and much more dangerous than ineptitude and clumsiness.

Anyway.

backfire, ai dont always cast through it.

energy surge = pitiful damage on a long recharge. RI does a tonne more.

SnipiousMax · Sep 24, 2006, 07:55 AM // 07:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Song Rui

wtf? eles do decent damage in pve already. what are these people talking about?

I stopped reading at this point.

Since a Warrior can outdamage an Ele blindfolded, with an arm and a pinky toe tied behind their back, you've destroyed your credibilty by implying that they are 'teh damage dealers of choice'. You've obviously ignored much of what has been said in the forums of late, much less this thread. Look at something through the eyes of someone that thinks the only things a party needs is a warrior with 7 defensive skills and mending, a Elementalist with Echo and Meteor Shower, and a monk with heal breeze... and you'll miss alot of what Mesmers have to offer. Unfortunate for you that you will never experience the most of what this game has to offer, and it's pointless to argue this further, as you've made it clear you'll not have any intrest in listening to anyone.