Curse

Paperfly · Oct 15, 2006, 06:25 AM // 06:25

Quote:

I think that part also holds true for SS nec. But how come they get accepted into groups?

...because a SS necro can genuinely out-damage every elementalist in the game with ease (they don't even need to echo it). The word's gone around just enough that they can get into groups (though their acceptance still isn't automatic).

Additionally, necromancers are the most powerful class in PvE to such an extent that people are willing to take chances on them. It's unfair, but there you go.

Valkyries · Oct 15, 2006, 11:04 AM // 11:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paperfly

...because a SS necro can genuinely out-damage every elementalist in the game with ease (they don't even need to echo it). The word's gone around just enough that they can get into groups (though their acceptance still isn't automatic).

Additionally, necromancers are the most powerful class in PvE to such an extent that people are willing to take chances on them. It's unfair, but there you go.

QFT

@OP

The problem as what most people said is that Mesmers are a complex class.... and people simply don't understand them. So they just reject them because they don't understand what they do. Its funny, whenever I play my Mes Im the one dishing out more damage than the Warriors but no one ever says boo. No one ever says anything about Mesmers because they don't see it. They don't notice that those Mobs are all completely blind.... they don't notice that the boss can't get their spells off because they are being interupted. People are ignorant for the most part and if you aren't wielding a sword/Axe + Shield or making pretty meteor looking things fly off the screen then its no good.

The thing about SS is people KNOW what a Necro does. You most likely are either SS or MM if you are Necro (I said most likely before someone chews my head off).... so people know what kind of power SS does. People don't know what kind of power a Mesmer can bring unless they have one themselves. New/early levels mean more noobs who know nothing, which explains why you can't get groups there but CAN in the late missions.

Trakata · Oct 18, 2006, 09:54 PM // 21:54

My first character was a Mesmer. Back then I never had any problems with groups but we've gotten an influx of ingnorance in GW and now I have trouble grouping for anything.

Not all newbs are noobs, remember that.

Franco · Oct 18, 2006, 10:22 PM // 22:22

Same most people in pve never heard of Ineptitude, E-surge, Migraine, but with necros most people know what a SS,MM or battery necro is, which are the most builds used in PvE.

LouAl · Oct 18, 2006, 10:28 PM // 22:28

It is basic human reaction - the confused mind says no

Think back on all the RPGs you have ever seen...what classes did they have? Warriors, elementalists (mages/wizards/whatever), Rangers/elfs/etc, Necromancers, Monks/healers, but, but, but, what about the mesmer? That is a big part of the problem, that people don't know where mesmers fit or what mesmers do or why they should give them a second look. They see a mesmer invite and think "how would this person help the group? well they...umm, they do something I am sure...whatever, screw it. I'll pick that fifth elementalist and we'll head out..."

Now, it is correct that when you get to later mission you will get more invites as a mesmer and it is for a few reasons. 1) There are fewer people and groups want anyone and everyone so that they can set out with a full group 2) They have had some experience in a group with mesmers that did just fine 3) They have fought against some of the high lvl mesmer mobs and been totally and completely worked over by them

@OP, you should have been a little less rude to Legolas Ravenwood. Legolas' first point was telling everyone to back off you and your FoW armor

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legolas Ravenwood

It seems that a few people should read properly before judging or questioning others.

and Legolas' second point answered the exact question you asked in your first post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legolas Ravenwood

My point is that every class is looked over, but the Mesmer is looked over without knowledge. People don't take time to remember what the Hexes do...

Dean Harper · Oct 19, 2006, 12:05 AM // 00:05

The problem with most people in this game is that they dont take the time to learn what each profession is about, especially the mesmer. All ppl want to see is ppl killing enemies, and the mesmer isnt about that. The mesmer is about waiting on the sidelines until it is most beneficial to strike, at which point, they have an incredible impact on the enemy. Whether it be loss of enery, loss of health, or hexing the enemy so they cant do something. Many people take these powerful attributes for granted, since they dont understand them, and therefore dont invite mesmers to their party. Of course, most of the time, only one mesmer is needed in a group. However, the mesmer dominates in pvp, and really isnt meant for pve, though it can be done. Overall, anyone who does not like the mesmer, will not invite them into a group becasue they are "a stupid profession that cant do anything," or just doesnt know what they do and why they do it is a noob, and needs to learn this, or they will be ridiculed in the later game and in pvp.

Mared Text · Oct 19, 2006, 11:26 AM // 11:26

Or maybe everyone knows what mesmers can do and they realize that having another warrior, elementalist, monk, or necro is better. I'm sure it makes you guys feel all warm and fuzzy to claim that people don't want you in their pve group because they don't know what the memser is capable of, but the fact is that even after people learn what the mesmer can do they still don't want you in their group.

For the most part mesmers are all about disrupting and disabling the enemy, if there was actually an enemy in pve that was so tough that it couldn't be defeated through straight up brute force I'm sure that mesmers would serve a roll, however, since pve has no enemy of this kind there is really no need for the mesmer at all when you can just add more brute force to your group.

PvP is an entirely different story for mesmers.

Cirian · Oct 19, 2006, 12:04 PM // 12:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mared Text

For the most part mesmers are all about disrupting and disabling the enemy, if there was actually an enemy in pve that was so tough that it couldn't be defeated through straight up brute force I'm sure that mesmers would serve a roll, however, since pve has no enemy of this kind there is really no need for the mesmer at all when you can just add more brute force to your group.

Anet clones Wila the Unpleasant and scatters her throughout Nightfall...

Fixed.

I find the group takes less damage with a good mesmer around, but then they can dish some AoE damage with Shatter Hex and Cry of Frustration too - not to mention the hex cleaning they do.

I've only ever had good experiences playing the mesmer in PvE and if people don't take them, well... their loss. Maybe mesmers need flashier spell effects

Hmm... come to think of it, Shatter Hex's effect is rather underwhelming considering it's a 126 damage "nearby foes" sized blastwave that bypasses armour... how about something like this?

Boom!

One thing I loved about Dark Age of Camelot (where that screenie comes from) was that the spell effects looked as good as the damage numbers

I miss that with mesmer magic

jesh · Oct 19, 2006, 07:40 PM // 19:40

Yeah, I think that would land mesmers some more PuG invites.

Funny I've made that suggestion before, but never found a picture like that. =P

*Darcy* · Oct 19, 2006, 11:26 PM // 23:26

Occasionally my mes will get invited into a PUG and I will accept because I have nothing better to do at the time. I love it when the mission/quest is finished and the group starts commenting something similar to "I don't know why people say that is a hard mission/quest."

Xandreus · Oct 20, 2006, 12:44 AM // 00:44

i think mesmers are really underrated, they can shutdown most different enemies one way or another and can help things move along a lot faster. I didn't find it too hard taking my mesmer through factions pve, and people seemed to be pleased of what it was able to do. I just hope that more people can become more receptive to it.
the problem is most parties like a similar setup with 2 warriors and 2 monks and specific things like nukers and SS's, which dusnt leave much room for mesmers. But if u can find a slot for one your mission/run/quest will be a lot easier, IF the mesmer knows what to do.

Aleks · Oct 20, 2006, 01:36 AM // 01:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darl

Actualy, all GW: P missions can be hencied

(i have not finished GW:F yet, so i cant tell you if all of them can be hencied, but the ones up to the joining of a faction are easy to do with your loyal NPC friends).

People dont pic mesmers, because they dont know what they do, and when they do something, its not as noticable as when a warrior smacks someone with a big hammer, or a meteor hits the target.

Also, when compairing mesmers to necros:
if you were an idiot, would you
A: Pick the person who can make the enemy healthbar purple, and have some purple sparkle around you
or
B: pick the person who can make the enemy healthbar purple, and have a vast undead army
?

Congrats, you have shown your unintelligible ignorance. I don't think I even need to say anything.

Purple health bar...? Dude..... I can tell you are new to the game. I suggest you get aquainted with the mesmer profession before deciding to post. Remember, if you don't know something for sure, you should always look it up first!

I'll show you the ropes. I am generally very nice towards people who just bought guild wars.

Paperfly · Oct 20, 2006, 08:33 AM // 08:33

Quote:

Congrats, you have shown your unintelligible ignorance. I don't think I even need to say anything.

Nope, he's just conclusively proven that his use of light irony is too sophisticated for you.

And even if you weren't wrong (and you were, oh so very wrong), that statement would've been unnecessary.

Dragannia · Oct 20, 2006, 10:44 AM // 10:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aleks

Congrats, you have shown your unintelligible ignorance. I don't think I even need to say anything.

Purple health bar...? Dude..... I can tell you are new to the game. I suggest you get aquainted with the mesmer profession before deciding to post. Remember, if you don't know something for sure, you should always look it up first!

I'll show you the ropes. I am generally very nice towards people who just bought guild wars.

Uhm. Purple Health bar...degen? You know, the Illusion line and all.

*Darcy* · Oct 20, 2006, 10:56 AM // 10:56

@OP

Newer players don't look for mesmers because, as Cirian said, they don't have flashy spell effects. They would rather recruit a class that is obviously doing something. This is exacerbated by even a low-level mesmer with only basic skills being able to hench all that area's quests, so they don't hang around for long.

As you go through the game and encounter players who have been exposed to mesmer foes and PvP, you find invites coming very quickly.

The bad-mouthing of mesmers has two main causes: 1) player tried a mesmer character and couldn't learn to play it and 2) player got wiped out by a mesmer.

the_jos · Oct 20, 2006, 01:24 PM // 13:24

There is one reason for the dislike of mesmers that I have not read about (could be that I have missed that one).
Mesmers shine when it comes to shutting down or heavy damaging a single target.
And GW mobs tend to stick together, so many people want to have AoE damage.
Of cource, there's E-surge and the various scatters, but that's not where mesmers are at their best.

The only time I've been asked to join a team was on the Aborstone mission Masters attempt, they wanted Ineptitude (and I added Epidemic to make them even more happy) to shut down the Oni.

And, you really need to know your skills with mesmer, more than other characters.
For example, on my mesmer I have only Vizunah Square and Raisu Palace open for masters. My Monk, Ne and R where able to get masters on these missions quite easily, but I still have to figure out the best way to play those missions with my mesmer.
I know it's team effort, but I'm still not happy with the domination or illusions builds I've used up to now.

JoeKnowMo · Oct 20, 2006, 10:34 PM // 22:34

AoE dmg works best in PvE in the majority of situations, especially in disorganized pugs. For example, Barrage > Punishing shot in most of PvE. 'Nuff said.

I think the ignorance about the Mesmer class gets overstated. I think ignorance is part of the reason for the discrimination, but many players who are aware of what the Mes can do will still pick another profession just based on damage output. Also, as Jos said above, the Mesmer builds need to be situational, and I can't tell how skilled players are until we've started the mission. I know what an SS, or MM, or tank, or nuker, or boon prot, etc. is running. Do I know what the mes is running? Even if they say "E-surge mes" or "Ineptitude mes" or "Shutdown Mes" that really doesn't tell me much about the rest of their bar.

Gururian · Oct 30, 2006, 03:00 AM // 03:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeKnowMo

Do I know what the mes is running? Even if they say "E-surge mes" or "Ineptitude mes" or "Shutdown Mes" that really doesn't tell me much about the rest of their bar.

Well, now you can thank A-Net for adding that little control-click on the skill bar to call your build. All you need to do is ask. On the topic.. I made a mesmer 8 days ago, second one since my first char(that was a mesmer), and I've had no trouble whatsoever finding groups for absolutely anything in Tyria almost completing every mission and bonus. IMO.. Mesmers are dominate in PvP and one of the best in PvE. Depending on the person of course.. My advice, for the people new to mesmers. Look at your skills accordingly before choosing your build if you want to be the most effective.