Curse

the_jos · Dec 22, 2006, 12:29 PM // 12:29

Quote:

Mesmers are still the best interupters, even though all classes have interupts none can match the mesmers ability to interupt.
.....
Most people who play as a mesmer or (the_jos: are?) generally more knowledgable than people playing the melee classes.

Sorry, but I partly disagree with you when looking at PvE, Sophitia.

I play both Mesmer and Ranger and when I really need an interrupt build, I take Ranger most of the time.
With 3 interrupts, you can almost spam them if you want, at 5 or 10 base energy (with high expertice, you hardly run out of energy).

In PvE, it's more or less knowing your enemies and how they use their skills.
Most of the time, with a little counting and looking at the enemy, you know when they cast.

For example, the blinding rangers and shock/aftershock ele's at Glint's are both very interruptable when done right.
The only spells/skills I have difficulties with are the 1 second or below ones and areas with enemies I have not faced before.

Of cource, mesmer can do this better and faster (specially interrupting the ones with low casting time) , but this requires more energy and longer cooldown.
It could also be that I'm not playing my mesmer to the max, of cource

I think you are right about the knowledge part.
Without the knowledge and experience I gained as a Mesmer, I would have never become a better interrupt Ranger.

If I want pure interrupts, I take Ranger.
If I want complete character shutdown or disable them severe, I take Mesmer.

Maliel · Dec 22, 2006, 02:40 PM // 14:40

Yep, I hate to admit it, but rangers are better suited for spamming interrupts, especially in PvE.

I think, some proffessions like mesmer and assassin, haven an endgame where they bloom, an area called PvP.
That's where a mesmer stands out. Like Jos said: complete character shutdown.
In PvE you are just support, like it or not. There your job isn't to interrupt that enemie cause you can, but because it's needed to protect the group. A ONE time shot.

You won't be able to interrupt a Dryder continuesly... you will have to interrupt the heavy blow (Liquid Flamer or MS or something), the ranger will take care of the rest. But you did 100dmg or got 16 nrg...the ranger did maybe 30 dmg. That is where the interrupting power of a mesmer in PvE lies.

Hmmm, fuse the ele nrg and the ranger interrupting spamming with the mesmer and yeah, you would have one powerfull proffession there. /grin

pingu666 · Dec 23, 2006, 12:01 AM // 00:01

most parties would rather have another necro (one MM, one SS) or monk, those who dont know eles would want another ele, or rit (yay some else who can heal!)

paragons have also got some indifference in pve ive noticed.

biggest advantage mesmers have in pve is clothing

. i just need a nice looking good stat domination cane for mine.

most of the scary damage in endgame nf is melee, so i should look for a melee shutdown build, mostly so they dont tear the team a new one...

and sometimes i interupt some bad guy hexed with backfire, because s omething like meteor shower is nasty to the group :S

Thom Bangalter · Dec 23, 2006, 11:47 AM // 11:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maliel

Yep, I hate to admit it, but rangers are better suited for spamming interrupts, especially in PvE.

I think, some proffessions like mesmer and assassin, haven an endgame where they bloom, an area called PvP.
That's where a mesmer stands out. Like Jos said: complete character shutdown.
In PvE you are just support, like it or not. There your job isn't to interrupt that enemie cause you can, but because it's needed to protect the group. A ONE time shot.

You won't be able to interrupt a Dryder continuesly... you will have to interrupt the heavy blow (Liquid Flamer or MS or something), the ranger will take care of the rest. But you did 100dmg or got 16 nrg...the ranger did maybe 30 dmg. That is where the interrupting power of a mesmer in PvE lies.

Hmmm, fuse the ele nrg and the ranger interrupting spamming with the mesmer and yeah, you would have one powerfull proffession there. /grin

Actually, they can also disable the skill for 20 seconds (rangers, that is). and they can spam barrage, which is a lot more powerful in a pve area than anything a mesmer has to offer.

Maliel · Dec 23, 2006, 11:48 AM // 11:48

Quote:

paragons have also got some indifference in pve ive noticed.

Hahaha, you just made me think of something.

Mesmers, assassins, Paragons.... Stockings, short skirts, full blown out ..., well you know what.

The only exception to this I can think of is ele. (Were they viewed upon the same way at the start?)
It's like they gave those proffessions sexy armor, just to be able to join a group? haha

But before I go offtopic, I still think some proffessions are created solely for PvP.
Meh, I don't care really, there is enough fun to be had in PvE even without pugs.

And Thom, mesmers can disable a skill for up to 30 seconds with simple thievery now, just that it is random. Or how about Visions of regret(E)? For 5...17 seconds, target foe takes 30...102 damage whenever that foe uses an adrenaline Skill. Heavy dmg to warriors.

We are good at short damaging spikes, and maybe not as good with skill stuff as rangers but we sure make up for it with the dmg dealt or the nrg stolen. And maybe you can spam barrage, but that's not the job of a mesmer to deal continues dmg. Like I said short powerfull spikes at the right time.
When an ele comes along and spams some AoE dmg, your barrage will fall into nothingness.

To each his own I guess.

Thom Bangalter · Dec 23, 2006, 12:12 PM // 12:12

Eles were better early on because monsters didn't scatter due to AoE.

I don't care about visions of regret or arcane thiever or simple thievery; I want things dead. Savage shot mitigates a specific damage source and you are able to do sustained aoe damage. certainly not to the point of an ele, but then eles can't interrupt all that well. they also have to maintain energy to keep up pressure.

I don't care about spike damage in pve. at all.

pingu666 · Dec 23, 2006, 06:25 PM // 18:25

females get nice armour, male paragons run around with there painted nipples or with a collar that would make the fonz quietly weep.

elonian male legging/skirty thing disapears in water tho. which is amusing and disturbing in equal measure.

spikes have there uses in pve, the endgame area of nf especialy, because of call of torment.

paragons are better than most people would actully think.
stand your ground and watch yourself at a decent level can give the team +40al for a long period of time, nearly sustained aswell. extra 40al cuts damage in half, plus go for the eyes is pretty nice.

mostly sustained damage is what u want in pve, hence the popularity of barrage. did get bored of stabbing 2 on my kb tho

Maliel · Dec 23, 2006, 06:29 PM // 18:29

*sigh*
Thom...
It's people like you I hate. Stop being so damn dry and serious and for once say something positive.
Look at the post above you, and notice the small POSITIVE stuff.

/sarcasm
*adores you* Yes, you are great, yes you are always right, yes, i'll go run away cause I can't respond anymore...
/end sarcasm

You are like someone I know and like parrots you all say the same thing when you have no options left anymore:
I could care less.

If you care more about barrage then arcane thievery, then what are you doing here anyway? Someone stepped on your toes while you were playing a mesmer or ele? Or did some screw up a mission?

I'm out of here. *rolls eyes* Sorry.

Terra Xin · Dec 24, 2006, 12:05 PM // 12:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

Actually, they can also disable the skill for 20 seconds (rangers, that is). and they can spam barrage, which is a lot more powerful in a pve area than anything a mesmer has to offer.

The only skill aside from the pet that can cause skill disability for the ranger. And its designed to deal crap damage. ooo Barrage, yay?

You come off like an ass... I can tell.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

I don't care about spike damage in pve. at all.

It would be clear that this thread has nothing to do with you then. By the time you manage to hit targets with barrage, the mesmer has already taken out one or two targets in a short time for you.

upier · Dec 24, 2006, 01:22 PM // 13:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terra Xin

The only skill aside from the pet that can cause skill disability for the ranger. And its designed to deal crap damage. ooo Barrage, yay?
You come off like an ass... I can tell.
It would be clear that this thread has nothing to do with you then. By the time you manage to hit targets with barrage, the mesmer has already taken out one or two targets in a short time for you.

why did you have to bring barrage into this?
currently i am farming xp on my messy and the best way to do it turned out to be - me/r with barrage + 3 ranger heros/hench with spirits + mm necro with reasonably high blood for orders. 1 arrow normally does a lovely 50+ damage and that can actually be sustained - not like surge/pain where you hit for a lovely 100ish and then wand for the next 30 secs.
so by the time the messies skill recharge to be able to take down a second target - the ranger will finish of the group. slow and easy takes the cake.

pingu666 · Dec 24, 2006, 05:48 PM // 17:48

terra, wheres the damage come from?
id guess ud need todo 500damage vs a lvl 20 to assure a kill
i can see, energy burn, power burn? the single target one, spiritual pain, guess we could echo one

80+80+106+106=372 (added up in my head, maybe wrong)
other stuff is conditional isnt it?

Bai · Dec 24, 2006, 06:40 PM // 18:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by pingu666

terra, wheres the damage come from?
id guess ud need todo 500damage vs a lvl 20 to assure a kill
i can see, energy burn, power burn? the single target one, spiritual pain, guess we could echo one

80+80+106+106=372 (added up in my head, maybe wrong)
other stuff is conditional isnt it?

Do you mean Power Spike?
Ineptitude and Clumsiness? That's 200+ right there just with 16 Illusion Magic. I don't think that counts as conditional in PvE beacause the monsters just mindlessly attack you without caring what hexes are on them.

Every class has it's pros and cons and its pointless just to argue about them because it's like saying that Rangers are better than Mesmers because they have Barrage. Mesmers weren't built to cause AoE damage. Try going to the Elementalist section of the Forums and arguing it with them there.

I still think Mesmer interrupts are more useful, IMO..because you don't have to calculate the flight time that the arrow needs to hit the target. Mesmer interrupts are probably more accurate when they are far away from the enemy being interrupted. The only problem with Mesmer interrupts is that the majority of the interrupts are used for spells, and that the recharge is somewhat long.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

Eles were better early on because monsters didn't scatter due to AoE.

I don't care about visions of regret or arcane thiever or simple thievery; I want things dead. Savage shot mitigates a specific damage source and you are able to do sustained aoe damage. certainly not to the point of an ele, but then eles can't interrupt all that well. they also have to maintain energy to keep up pressure.

I don't care about spike damage in pve. at all.

A caster with no energy is basically dead. A warrior with blind from Ineptitude is basically dead because they can cause no damage.

Terra Xin · Dec 24, 2006, 09:04 PM // 21:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by pingu666

terra, wheres the damage come from?
id guess ud need todo 500damage vs a lvl 20 to assure a kill
i can see, energy burn, power burn? the single target one, spiritual pain, guess we could echo one

80+80+106+106=372 (added up in my head, maybe wrong)
other stuff is conditional isnt it?

Backfire will normally strike casters 3 times in PvE, and no, they aren't smart enough not to cast. Monks will cast when they are under threat, or they'll stand there and take the damage, while the other casters will damage because they will otherwise stand there and die. In PvE, Backfire isn't conditional, it will strike.

When you stack this spell with what you listed above (and btw your maths is right) then damage is what damage is dealt.

Empathy will strike attackers foremost on a constant basis, you can easily get over 200 damage when attacking an off-target (thanks to the buff). Along with its quick recharge, this capability can be applied to more than one target. Casters naturally attack less frequently because they cast spells, which impedes Empathy's ability to deal damage.

Keeping in mind that every piece of damage a mesmer deals is untyped, so you don't have to worry about armour.

I'd rather echo Empathy than Spiritual Pain. Its not that I don't like the damage from SP, but I can deal more damage upon two targets with Empathy, and it's worked for me plenty before.

charlote · Dec 26, 2006, 02:43 AM // 02:43

mesmers will never DIE!, god they dont need buffs eaither

there a nifgtmare to monks and many other spellcastes

i will never delete my mesmer even though i would get bored of it

cause she is my best character

Winstar · Dec 26, 2006, 11:09 PM // 23:09

Don't know about pve, but in pvp there are probably in the top tier of frequently used classes.

*Darcy* · Dec 30, 2006, 01:33 PM // 13:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terra Xin

These threads don't really prove anything but to prove the threadmaker wrong. That's all.

This thread started in mid-November. The OP (Siddious) was concerned that he was seeing less mesmers in PvP. After being reminded that the testing of the new professions introduced two weeks previously would affect PvP teams for at least a month or so, he agreed that his concerns might be premature.

And here we are at the end of December with mesmers back in view on observer mode. The superior versatility of the mesmer profession will always win out in the end.

drupal · Jan 01, 2007, 04:28 AM // 04:28

Since I always loved to play my other Chars with Mesmer as secondary I created a primary Mesmer a week ago. If you speak from PvP, no, the Mesmer isn't dying

In PvE? Yep, they're rare.

LightningHell · Jan 01, 2007, 07:11 AM // 07:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bai

A caster with no energy is basically dead. A warrior with blind from Ineptitude is basically dead because they can cause no damage.

In PvP, no, they're not dead, but they're not currently a threat. For example, an Ele could Draw Blind away. The Blind would end, nonetheless, making it only a temporary refuge.

In PvE, they're most definitely not dead. You want things DEAD, the real DEAD as quickly as possible.

octaviancmb · Jan 18, 2007, 05:26 PM // 17:26

The Mesmer is a complicated profession, and their primary attribute isn't very useful for the first parts of the PvE game in either Prophecies or Factions. These two problems result in a low population in PvE. A low population doesn't, in and of itself, imply any problem with the profession.

If the profession were less complex, more people would play it, but I'd enjoy it less.