Curse

Taki · Apr 27, 2007, 08:43 PM // 20:43

Everyone should be familiar with the Mesmer/Pve plight at this point. It has been said many times in the past that the solution to making mesmers more useful/popular in pve is to make pve more challenging. Assuming this was true, would Anet really want to expend so many resources and forgoe other development to make that kind of wide-scale change, for one profession? And for one profession in only one side of the game, given that they are widely accepted, established, and generally excel in the other side?

Obviously not, right? Besides, even if these changes were implemented what do you tell the masses that would complain that the game was now too hard or impossible to play? How would deal with the others that find the changes not challenging at all, just a major frustrating exercise in monotony - monsters take longer to kill but are as exploitable as ever - making the game just drag on longer instead of being anything close to enjoyable? What would the ratio be between these two groups and the number of players who are actually satisfied by the update and just how many players would the game lose for good because of it?

So it should come as no surprise that nothing was done for nearly two years. But now we have GW2 coming up with no major updates to the GW series and a need to retain the interest of players during this period, especially with so many high-profile alternatives soon to be released. Simply put, GW2 will fail without the support ($$$) of it's predecessor's loyal playerbase and willingness to spread their love of the game to others.

Enter Hardmode. With this update everyone has a huge amount of time to invest in all three campaigns while they wait for GW2. Many players should (and do) feel that mesmers now have a place to shine in pve. Also, players who feel it is too dificult can still mostly enjoy the game as they did before. Those who find it the ultimate level of tedium may hopefully decide to give pvp a harder look, considering they can tolerate the sorry-ass excuse for filth called people they will encounter as both teammate and foe or put aside real life to overcome the time commitment hurdles necessary in higher level pvp.

So hardmode serves both as 'fix' for mesmers in pve and as the first of updates attempting to keep Anet in good graces with the playerbase until the release of GW2. What more could you ask for in the meantime to maintain a minimum level of interest in the game? Keep in mind that Anet has already told you where to put your ideas of auction houses.

Mordakai · Apr 27, 2007, 08:50 PM // 20:50

While I agree with many of your points, why did this need it's own thread?

This should be merged with the existing Mesmer and PvE thread, where this exact issue (mesmers and hard mode) is currently being discussed.

As for Mesmers in Regular mode, hell, I've taken my IW mesmer through most of Nightfall with Heros and Henchies. It's really not that hard... (and the parts that I needed to take down bosses like Varesh, I made special counter builds).

Nekretaal · Apr 27, 2007, 09:26 PM // 21:26

This belongs in one of the many mesmer threads, or the gaile started Mesmers & SOul Reaping Thread, or in the hardmode thread.

As for Mesmers, as mobs get more damgerous, shutdown is more useful, as mobs get more armor, armor ignoring damage is more useful.

However, many mobs are in zerg-sized groups, so a Mesmers single target shutdown is pretty worthless against these mobs, which turns the mesmer into an "only useful sometimes" character, and as the strategy for killing mobs gets more precise, then shutdown becomes a lot less important... Meaning that the Mesmer is still an entirely unessessary character in PvE. Once you figure out that all you need to own a grawl uglyodyke really fast in hard mode is a single enchantment remover on a single character, you can replace anti-caster shutdown in the area with something that will better keep your party alive or complete the area faster.

Then there's the fact that mesmer style shutdown isnt all that useful. The first character who runs into a mob of roaring ethers and ruby djinn will get spiked to death by several characters at once and the mesmer cant do anything to prevent this. A Ritualist however, can use shelter and Xinrae's weapon and both survive the spike while giving the henchies enough time to score kills before the next spike. Mesmers dont have a Xinrae's weapon type skills that would allow them to provide the type of shutdown that actually works in pve.

Then there's the matter of the primary which is great, but allows all other classes to use mesmer skills as well as mesmers. Its no wonder that few Mesmers but a lot of secondaries carry Sympatheitic Visage and its clone, which is one of the few Area of effect shutdowns the mesmer does have.

kazjun · Apr 30, 2007, 01:03 AM // 01:03

Still don't see why you'd bring a primary mesmer rather than a secondary mes. Almost any other class can go mesmer and bring a more useful primary attrib.

Calluette Hanuette · Apr 30, 2007, 02:25 AM // 02:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by kazjun

Still don't see why you'd bring a primary mesmer rather than a secondary mes. Almost any other class can go mesmer and bring a more useful primary attrib.

Well, I disagree with this. A mesmer imitate most classes, even do some better.<Other then monk classes and I'm not sure about paragon, haven't tried...>
- Elementalist? Fastcasting makes the class much more useful in my opinion. Who wants to wait that long for one spell? When mesmers can cast two spells in the same time as elementalists one spell, even if its 5~20 damage less then the pure elementalists per spell, when they come out twice as fast its alot more damage then an elementalist.
- Dervish? Well, you can add in some useful mesmer spells in with the scythe skills and self-healing. The ones that need hexes? Add them yourself in almost no time, and boom, problem solved. Oh, don't forget illusionary weapon. :.
- Warrior? Good Illusionary weaponry builds can beat down most warrior's builds, in pve you can use warrior's defensive skills with a mesmers skilsl to create builds that work amazing.
- Ranger? Well, mesmers can make very nice builds with illusion. And I've found that beast mastery can work very well with mesmers, you can add hexes as well as conditions with arrows. Oh, interruption works extremily well with me/r's too.
- Necromancer? Fast Casting can beat out soul reaping with proper energy management. Ofcourse, we can't mm but thats later useless compared to other builds.
- Ritualist? Fast casting channeling builds works so very well. A new sort of FC nuker can be made, as well as a spike using channeling. The only problem is that your spirits won't last as long as a ritualist, but you can find ways to get out of that.
- Assassin? Faster deadly arts~ ~.~ Add more hexes, it works well.

You can also illusionary weapon your way through. Very quick crippling daggers on the things trying to get to the monk can save your monk, or another squishy. Even yourself. You can disrupt using assassin skills as well. And somehow..siphon speed has saved my life while I was testing out me/a... >>;
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Even in hard-mode, a mesmer primary can be much better then other primaries. However, a mesmer is better put to use not imitating other classes and using mesmer-stlyed builds.

Pat_vaynard · Apr 30, 2007, 04:05 AM // 04:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by kazjun

Still don't see why you'd bring a primary mesmer rather than a secondary mes. Almost any other class can go mesmer and bring a more useful primary attrib.

I wager I could outplay you on any primary class with a mesmer secondary as my mesmer with any secondary at my hands. My point being skill is a major factor that varies between mesmers in this game, that is primarily the problem in PvE, but they mention pve only skill buffs for GW:EN so all will be well in time...

Nkah Sennyt · Apr 30, 2007, 05:05 AM // 05:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

While I agree with many of your points, why did this need it's own thread?

This should be merged with the existing Mesmer and PvE thread, where this exact issue (mesmers and hard mode) is currently being discussed.

I concur - please continue this discussion here. Closing this thread, as merging threads tends to break the forum.