Curse

Omniclasm · Nov 30, 2007, 04:58 AM // 04:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magikarp

so? isnt that what FC does????? it makes you cast spells FASTER. you really have no argument at all do you? do you want to stir up trouble? i dont understand your reasoning, and moreso, why you can't drop something so trivial.

You can stop at anytime, can you not?

But yeah...I am pretty sure that this thread needs executed.

Avarre · Nov 30, 2007, 05:05 AM // 05:05

This discussion should have ended a long time ago. Preferably, when I posted my article.

Mesmers are relatively ineffective in PvE. You are welcome to use them, and can still do well and have fun, but don't delude yourself into thinking you're as useful as another class could have been, no matter how good a player you are.

Magikarp · Nov 30, 2007, 05:13 AM // 05:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

This discussion should have ended a long time ago. Preferably, when I posted my article.

Mesmers are relatively ineffective in PvE. You are welcome to use them, and can still do well and have fun, but don't delude yourself into thinking you're as useful as another class could have been, no matter how good a player you are.

contradiction??

and ow? i play mesmer, and know lots of mesmers that are great in pve, especially HM. i dont understand why having a mesmer on a team, specialized for a certain area is such a bad idea. i've never had a problem fufilling my role as a mesmer in a team, and neither have any of the other good mesmers i've seen.

Str0b0 · Nov 30, 2007, 05:57 AM // 05:57

Well I think right there is one reason why a mesmer in PvE is kind of pointless. They have to spec for certain areas. As a general rule mesmers are very very specialized in what they do. You don't have a lot of general utility out of them. In PvP this ain't so bad. It makes sense since you know you will be facing a small number of enemies. You can specialize and be e denial or melee shutdown or whatever the FotM mesmer niche is. In PvE, you have to face a much larger number of enemies of various classes and skill sets in various ratios. You could encounter very caster heavy groups which means a mesmer specced for melee is going to fail badly. Granted the enemies in a zone aren't randomized but suppose you are going through multiple zones with differing enemy skill sets? Now you're much less effective than say a necro with SS and enfeebling blood. In HM especially you can forget e-denial and even in NM that's a sketchy proposition at best. Mesmer's have nice interrupts which have good utility anywhere but rangers can do it better because they can apply conditions. Heck a ranger mesmer with epidemic can hit one caster target in a clustered group with BHA and spread dazed to all the rest. I'm not saying that mesmers can't do PvE period I'm just saying from a party perspective I'd rather take one of the other classes because they w ill h ave general utility regardless of where we end up whereas the mesmer has to spec for the areas.

Magikarp · Nov 30, 2007, 06:10 AM // 06:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Str0b0

Well I think right there is one reason why a mesmer in PvE is kind of pointless. They have to spec for certain areas. As a general rule mesmers are very very specialized in what they do. You don't have a lot of general utility out of them. In PvP this ain't so bad. It makes sense since you know you will be facing a small number of enemies. You can specialize and be e denial or melee shutdown or whatever the FotM mesmer niche is. In PvE, you have to face a much larger number of enemies of various classes and skill sets in various ratios. You could encounter very caster heavy groups which means a mesmer specced for melee is going to fail badly. Granted the enemies in a zone aren't randomized but suppose you are going through multiple zones with differing enemy skill sets? Now you're much less effective than say a necro with SS and enfeebling blood. In HM especially you can forget e-denial and even in NM that's a sketchy proposition at best. Mesmer's have nice interrupts which have good utility anywhere but rangers can do it better because they can apply conditions. Heck a ranger mesmer with epidemic can hit one caster target in a clustered group with BHA and spread dazed to all the rest. I'm not saying that mesmers can't do PvE period I'm just saying from a party perspective I'd rather take one of the other classes because they w ill h ave general utility regardless of where we end up whereas the mesmer has to spec for the areas.

i understand 100% what you mean, but all im saying is that if you play the game a lot, you learn what's where, and thus how to counter the things in that area. heavy caster areas are really easy for mesmers, with ints, cast time extenders, and even FC maelstrom ect. necros using enfeebling is just as effective on a mesmer too, and regardless, necros really only excel at anti melee. sure they have SS, and a few spells that trigger on this or that, but other than MMs, its pretty much hex-heavy, wait out the enemy to kill themselves. mesmers, while being harder to play, more specialized, and possibly a generally more challenging choice over the necro, still functions great as a pve class if used to it, and even other classes full potentials.

again, its class design is its downfall in pve, and while not as superpowered as say a necro or ele, it has a great primary role in all forms of play, and can take the form of any caster if need be. i still say "go for it", make a mes, see how you like it, if you dont, you deffinitly won't be the first! :P

Chicken Ftw · Nov 30, 2007, 06:15 AM // 06:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magikarp

contradiction??

and ow? i play mesmer, and know lots of mesmers that are great in pve, especially HM. i dont understand why having a mesmer on a team, specialized for a certain area is such a bad idea. i've never had a problem fufilling my role as a mesmer in a team, and neither have any of the other good mesmers i've seen.

No contradiction. You're useful, but not as useful as another class'd be. I gave up on explaining why back in the "Why so few mesmers in PvE" thread, because it seems people either comprehend it by now or just won't, ever.

the_jos · Nov 30, 2007, 12:37 PM // 12:37

Quote:

and ow? i play mesmer, and know lots of mesmers that are great in pve, especially HM. i dont understand why having a mesmer on a team, specialized for a certain area is such a bad idea. i've never had a problem fufilling my role as a mesmer in a team, and neither have any of the other good mesmers i've seen.

It's not about bad idea or not being able to play a role.
The question is, can we replace the mesmer by an other profession and be at least as efficient as with the mesmer.
I think the answer to that question is yes in most cases.

This does not make me (or any other experienced mesmer) a bad player or a burden to the team.
Not at all.
However, I do have to admit that when I would use my knowledge on other caster professions, I most probably come with builds that would assist the team the same or better in PvE. And if a team needs interrupts, I run ranger without doubt.
If I want to play as efficient as possible, I take my para (don't have warrior) and compose a team of warriors/para's/rangers with 2 monk backline.

But that's theory.
It's a game, it's not only about how efficient you are.
For me, playing the mesmer offers fun.
It was the profession that thought me most about game mechanics and the various types of foes (and counters) there are.
Playing mesmer with groups is also fun for me.
Sometimes you almost hear them think "how did that foe die" or "we usually have a lot of problem here, why not this time".
That's something not only a mesmer can do, but because of FC, people have less time to notice what is going on

Magikarp · Nov 30, 2007, 02:11 PM // 14:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_jos

It's not about bad idea or not being able to play a role.
The question is, can we replace the mesmer by an other profession and be at least as efficient as with the mesmer.
I think the answer to that question is yes in most cases.

This does not make me (or any other experienced mesmer) a bad player or a burden to the team.
Not at all.
However, I do have to admit that when I would use my knowledge on other caster professions, I most probably come with builds that would assist the team the same or better in PvE. And if a team needs interrupts, I run ranger without doubt.
If I want to play as efficient as possible, I take my para (don't have warrior) and compose a team of warriors/para's/rangers with 2 monk backline.

But that's theory.
It's a game, it's not only about how efficient you are.
For me, playing the mesmer offers fun.
It was the profession that thought me most about game mechanics and the various types of foes (and counters) there are.
Playing mesmer with groups is also fun for me.
Sometimes you almost hear them think "how did that foe die" or "we usually have a lot of problem here, why not this time".
That's something not only a mesmer can do, but because of FC, people have less time to notice what is going on

one of the better post in this thread, and i guess i have to agree after really thinking about it so... realistically. i guess the fun, and sport of playing mesmer clouded my rationality of whether or not i, or any other mesmer, was filling a crucial spot, or just a spot.

i still team with mesmers in both pugs and of course guild groups, because they get a bad rap, and i still loves em', and while im the warrior in almost 99% of groups, i'll always love HEVortex in HM lol. thank you mesmers :P

some guy · Dec 04, 2007, 07:55 AM // 07:55

HELLZ YEAH!

They make PvE so much easier, shutdown and crazy interupts. I helped out this dervish one day, he was like "you make this look too easy!". Mesmer skills, like I said b4, make pve so much easier!

viens87 · Dec 04, 2007, 08:19 AM // 08:19

guys

mesmer is nice , necro is nice .. all chars r nice

only one thing ..

when u play with W, E, D, A, N ,Rt .. u must work on one mob before kill them ..
when u kill u can kick next ass ..

mesmer work on all chars in one moment ..
echo > backfire on one monk , backfire on second monk , empathy on warior + cry of pain .. watch have 3 mobs die :]

when u use ilusion magic .. u work like others only on one mob .. wit domination u can work on 3-5 mobs on a 10 -20 sec ..

someone say mesmer bad in PVE , in interupts .. u fail .. mesmer ir much better then ranger in interupts .. faster ..

u can see ele dmg , its burning, earth, slowing etc ..

mesmer is supporter .. u cant see his action on battle place but when u play with mesmer u see many things

GL

Laughing Bat · Dec 04, 2007, 09:53 AM // 09:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by viens87

mesmer is supporter .. u cant see his action on battle place but when u play with mesmer u see many things

The only reason I started my mesmer is because I played with a good one. A good mesmer can make things much easier on everybody else.

Kattar · Dec 04, 2007, 05:21 PM // 17:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by viens87

guys

mesmer is nice , necro is nice .. all chars r nice

OH NOES, a valid point -> can't have any of those.

Why is this still being discussed?

some guy · Dec 05, 2007, 07:17 AM // 07:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laughing Bat

The only reason I started my mesmer is because I played with a good one. A good mesmer can make things much easier on everybody else.

Nicely said!

StarryNites · Dec 05, 2007, 11:41 AM // 11:41

Originally Posted by viens87
mesmer is supporter .. u cant see his action on battle place but when u play with mesmer u see many things

Originally Posted by Laughing Bat

The only reason I started my mesmer is because I played with a good one. A good mesmer can make things much easier on everybody else.

The problem is the others dont notice

ignorant players (and ther's alot of them) will ignore you if u in pve puggin because what you can do is over there head

as for the insults to mesmers just like when your puggin its the dumb players who doubt you

we are like the monks that forget to heal the stoopid tank etc in the midst of battle u insult us we stand by and enjoy ur demise

viens87 · Dec 05, 2007, 12:13 PM // 12:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by StarryNites

Originally Posted by viens87
mesmer is supporter .. u cant see his action on battle place but when u play with mesmer u see many things

Originally Posted by Laughing Bat

The only reason I started my mesmer is because I played with a good one. A good mesmer can make things much easier on everybody else.

The problem is the others dont notice

ignorant players (and ther's alot of them) will ignore you if u in pve puggin because what you can do is over there head

as for the insults to mesmers just like when your puggin its the dumb players who doubt you

we are like the monks that forget to heal the stoopid tank etc in the midst of battle u insult us we stand by and enjoy ur demise

I think the mesmer is most ignored char ever ..
only the ursanway open for him the road for elite misions ..
any one ever hear u r good mesmer ? .. ty ..

only nice monk , nice monk .. u know, have many times mesmer is calling nice ?
maby in pvp when someone die from him , not ur party members

i see by mesmers build is that mesmer is nice or bad .. sometimes hench enchanter in prophecies r better then mesmr who came with 8 skills no signets no nrg drain ..
or mesmer/ele wit all 25nrg skills or something like that ..

mesmer without insperation r bad mesmer my mind .. no insperation very big nrg problems if u want to kill all mobs fast ..

GL

Ilove mesmer

Terraban · Dec 05, 2007, 03:01 PM // 15:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by viens87

I think the mesmer is most ignored char ever ..
only the ursanway open for him the road for elite misions ..
any one ever hear u r good mesmer ? .. ty ..

only nice monk , nice monk .. u know, have many times mesmer is calling nice ?
maby in pvp when someone die from him , not ur party members

i see by mesmers build is that mesmer is nice or bad .. sometimes hench enchanter in prophecies r better then mesmr who came with 8 skills no signets no nrg drain ..
or mesmer/ele wit all 25nrg skills or something like that ..

mesmer without insperation r bad mesmer my mind .. no insperation very big nrg problems if u want to kill all mobs fast ..

GL

Ilove mesmer

Engrish much?

People don't notice Mesmers in PvE because they don't do enough to be noticed.

reddswitch · Dec 05, 2007, 05:45 PM // 17:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terraban

Engrish much?

People don't notice Mesmers in PvE because they don't do enough to be noticed.

Been a dick for long or just started? You realize more than just english speaking players are around right?

It's easy to notice a mesmer's work, you see a purple arrow or slowly degenning purple bar it could be mesmer work. With all the discouraging remarks on why to not play mesmer there'll be less mesmers in pve play and then there'll be truly nothing to notice.

I might have said this already but it's pve, everything is already known and mesmers counter stuff. Build for it. A great wrong in pve is the PUG mentality but that's on community end so you can't change the minds of mass idiots out there if they continue to refuse certain classes.

Magikarp · Dec 05, 2007, 09:20 PM // 21:20

relax guys. no need for this already dead thread to get heated again.

viens87 · Dec 06, 2007, 08:03 AM // 08:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terraban

Engrish much?

People don't notice Mesmers in PvE because they don't do enough to be noticed.

u dont know what mesmer can do!!

i play with mesmer 1 year and know what they can do for mobs

sometimes Pug is better in party by whole group ..
i told ya .. Ursan Way open the gates for mesmers and Elite areas .. and i can go with normal skills too in elite areas .. a make big AoL dmg ..

Moloch Vein · Dec 06, 2007, 02:57 PM // 14:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magikarp

i could count on one hand how many necros have been in my teams for hard mode. in fact, the only casters in my HM teams are rits, and monks. the rest are paras, a ranger, and me (a warrior or sin nowadays).

Paragons marry much better with necromancers than with mesmers. The same is true for rangers, assassins and warriors.