Curse

Loli Krasivaya · Feb 12, 2008, 03:14 AM // 03:14

Redfeather, I think you're on to something.

You can't see me · Feb 12, 2008, 03:14 AM // 03:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redfeather1975

I made a suggestion a while ago that perhaps PVE mob groups should have a mob sergeant. A creature that is responsible for mass buffing of mob's offense, defense or both. This sergeant would require precision interruption and/or shutdown as they should use specially designed monster skills that cast really fast or have really short recharges.

It's a very good suggestion, but there would be far too much QQing from the "Casual" players. You know, the ones that blame their lack of ability on lack of playtime? I know a few.

Nevin · Feb 12, 2008, 03:15 AM // 03:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Two April Mornings

I don't want to self-promote, but this build:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10244632
has effectively done that for me.

It's not perfect, but works for me.

Psshhhh

Ether Nightmare -> Arcane Echo -> Echo -> Cry Of Pain -> Echo -> Cry of Pain -> Cry of Pain

With titles maxed its 300 damage spike with -8 health degen for 10 seconds. Talk about imba, but once again this relies solely on PvE skills. Not to mention an ele with the use of holiday+pve items+pve skills can get up to 21 in an attribute of his choice. We're talking about level 30 boss damage nukes.

cellardweller · Feb 12, 2008, 03:26 AM // 03:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redfeather1975

I made a suggestion a while ago that perhaps PVE mob groups should have a mob sergeant. A creature that is responsible for mass buffing of mob's offense, defense or both. This sergeant would require precision interruption and/or shutdown as they should use specially designed monster skills that cast really fast or have really short recharges.

It's defensive capabilities would have to be high, and some of the other mobs would defend this mob in ways, so that simply being pounded on by everyone at the beginning wasn't enough. The mob would have to be shutdown or e-denied while it's support were taken out one by one, until it were possible to take the sergeant on.

Nice idea, but a godmode warrior is going to do a better job of shutting down the target via brawling headbutt than the mesmer can hope to, whilst still maintaining a steady 60+dps and giving the rest of the party +100 armour.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevin

Psshhhh

Ether Nightmare -> Arcane Echo -> Echo -> Cry Of Pain -> Echo -> Cry of Pain -> Cry of Pain

With titles maxed its 300 damage spike with -8 health degen for 10 seconds. Talk about imba, but once again this relies solely on PvE skills.

You forgot to mention that even this can be done twice as well by a N/Me thanks to SR's energy engine.

quickmonty · Feb 12, 2008, 03:27 AM // 03:27

Hero AI is not optimal for mesmers, and I have read some posts here that indicate some people really don't know how to play mesmer. Posts that say "by the time a mes shuts the target down it is already dead". and other such comments.

As a mesmer in a PuG or guild group I do not attack the called target. I look at the next target, preferably a caster, and start doing my thing.

Backfire: some mobs will cast through it and take damage, others won't cast through it but you've shut them down for 10 seconds.
Then move onto next target and use your other skills.

A good mesmer can shutdown/damage two or more targets while the rest of your team kills the first target, then finds the nest target easier to kill.

You can't see me · Feb 12, 2008, 03:29 AM // 03:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by quickmonty

Hero AI is not optimal for mesmers, and I have read some posts here that indicate some people really don't know how to play mesmer. Posts that say "by the time a mes shuts the target down it is already dead". and other such comments.

Hello, are you farmiliar with AoE damage? Things that kill multiple targets at once, in a way that targetting them is useless?

Redfeather1975 · Feb 12, 2008, 03:35 AM // 03:35

Here is a couple of skills a sergeant mob could have.

Weapon of Return (monster skill weapon spell)
(.25c, 10r, 25e)
Mob gains a weapon of return for 20s. If it is killed while wielding weapon of return it is resurrected with 15% Health and 15% Energy for each mob ally within earshot.

Morale Boost (monster skill chant)
(.75s, 10r, 15e)
For 10 seconds, the next time each mob ally within earshot uses a Skill, that mob ally gains 50 armour and Sergeant Mob gains 100 health for each mob ally in earshot.

Spirit of Bloodlust (monster skill group enchant)
(.75, 10r, 10e)
For 10 seconds all mobs in earshot are enchanted with Bloodlust and gain +5 to all attributes. Sergeant Mob gains 10 armour for each mob ally in earshot.

Aggressive Unity (monster skill shout)
(-, 10r, -)
For 10 seconds Mob sergeant suffers from -2 energy regen. All mob allies in earshot attack mob sergeant's target for 10 seconds.

Desperation Stance (monster skill elite stance)
(-, 20r, 15e)
For 10 seconds mob sergeant suffers from -2 energy regen, gains 75% chance to block attacks and is no longer affected by conditions.

Edit: Oh noes! I can't stop adding them. XD

quickmonty · Feb 12, 2008, 03:35 AM // 03:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by You can't see me

Hello, are you farmiliar with AoE damage? Things that kill multiple targets at once, in a way that targetting them is useless?

Hello, are you familiar with mesmers?

Stupid question answered by another stupid question. Are you familiar with AoE nerf? See meteor shower. See mobs scatter.

I've played a mesmer through all three campaigns and I know what they can do. I've also played an ele (and 8 other professions) through all three campaigns.

cellardweller · Feb 12, 2008, 03:39 AM // 03:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redfeather1975

Edit: Hey cellardweller, that second quote wasn't me! XD

Oppsies.... Fixed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by quickmonty

Stupid question answered by another stupid question. Are you familiar with AoE nerf? See meteor shower. See mobs scatter.

In my experience it goes:
See Splinter weapon, Whirlwind attack, Rodgort's Invocation and anscestor's rage go off. See the few remaining melee's try to run way but get caught in a body block. See enemy monks run in to try to cast healing touch, then get trapped in the same body block. See all the red dots disapear in a flaming heap.

You can't see me · Feb 12, 2008, 03:41 AM // 03:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by quickmonty

Hello, are you familiar with mesmers?

Stupid question answered by another stupid question. Are you familiar with AoE nerf? See meteor shower. See mobs scatter.

I've played a mesmer through all three campaigns and I know what they can do. I've also played an ele (and 8 other professions) through all three campaigns.

Previous to the stupid question, was a stupid comment.

I'd like to introduce you to Scrubway. This is how most PuGs operate in Dungeons and elite missions, which is mostly where the Mesmer is shunned. In Scrubway, through the oh so clever use of an agro holding tank and the combination of a snare like Grasping Earth or YMLaD, AoE becomes /godmode because scrubway is very easy to put together, to operate and to use in most situations.

I have also played the Mesmer through all three campaigns, and through all dungeons and elite missions. I know what it is capable of, and I know what it could be capable of. That is the point of the thread. I also have played the other professions through all three campaigns, and most through Eye of the North. What's your point by stating that? Are you trying to make yourself look superior in experience? If so, you've failed. Playing through the campaigns on all professions is nothing that suggests you have skill in them. We've both done it and come up with seperate views on the matter.

Yes, I was able to play through no problem. I feel that they could use improvement in some aspects though.

Blu · Feb 12, 2008, 03:50 AM // 03:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by quickmonty

Hero AI is not optimal for mesmers, and I have read some posts here that indicate some people really don't know how to play mesmer. Posts that say "by the time a mes shuts the target down it is already dead". and other such comments.

As a mesmer in a PuG or guild group I do not attack the called target. I look at the next target, preferably a caster, and start doing my thing.

Backfire: some mobs will cast through it and take damage, others won't cast through it but you've shut them down for 10 seconds.
Then move onto next target and use your other skills.

A good mesmer can shutdown/damage two or more targets while the rest of your team kills the first target, then finds the nest target easier to kill.

You raise interesting points but I saw several problems.
With backfire, I will admit that this shines in areas with small parties or tough
casters, with the current PuG mindset, this has little significance. The enemy group can just be blown away in seconds with AoE.
I also don't believe that there is anything in PvE the other classes can't do better.
Rangers can shut down several enemies just as easy and provide decent
support such as AoE damage, blind, and many other things. PvE is all about speed, all of the other clases simply outmatch mesmers in sheer killing capacity.

The holy trinity is slow and ineffective IMO. But it is commonly used because there is little skill involved (same thing with UB).

Bringing a Mesmer defeats the purposeof the stereo-typical C-Space pvs. Sure, the effects are worthwhile especially in pvp, but the lack of AoE, and the need for actual thinking is more trouble than that last party slot.

Mr. Mystica · Feb 12, 2008, 03:50 AM // 03:50

mmh I feel that mesmers are defined as a role too, Sure they have an alternate way, but lets say this, heres an example of where a mesmer was needed.

Ok so the other day I was going through this dungeon (cant remember which one, just had a lot of ice in it) with my guild, and the aoe from the elementals were devistating our team, what curred the problem? powerblock.

Indeed Hard mode has more use for mesmers, but nether the less, mesmers are often overlooked for a nuker, or another profession, big worries, Im a big kid, I can H/h and if not, I can ask my guild.

I always carry arcane echo, and when I run an ineptude or empathy/backfire, I can cause massive damage, sure Ill leave my aoe to vekk, but I can clearly pinpoint the key point monsters and single them out in a matter of secs, leaving the opposing mob, sore.

Mesmers in need of change? I think not.

You can't see me · Feb 12, 2008, 03:53 AM // 03:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Mystica

mmh I feel that mesmers are defined as a role too, Sure they have an alternate way, but lets say this, heres an example of where a mesmer was needed.

Ok so the other day I was going through this dungeon (cant remember which one, just had a lot of ice in it) with my guild, and the aoe from the elementals were devistating our team, what curred the problem? powerblock.

Indeed Hard mode has more use for mesmers, but nether the less, mesmers are often overlooked for a nuker, or another profession, big worries, Im a big kid, I can H/h and if not, I can ask my guild.

I always carry arcane echo, and when I run an ineptude or empathy/backfire, I can cause massive damage, sure Ill leave my aoe to vekk, but I can clearly pinpoint the key point monsters and single them out in a matter of secs, leaving the opposing mob, sore.

Mesmers in need of change? I think not.

Nowhere do I deny mesmers as an effective class. I simply propose some slight changes that would not cripple their current function while adding another.

Celestial_Kitsune · Feb 12, 2008, 03:56 AM // 03:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by You can't see me

This is half the reason why the Mesmer cannot get into PvE PuGs, or even some Guild Groups. In fact, it cannot even H/H as effectively. I've had more time spent getting through areas while H/Hing on my Mesmer than with any other class. This isn't right. The Mesmer must be rebalanced to be viable in PvE.

For some reason, viable is a very popular word on GW forums. All professions are viable in PvE. If you have trouble getting through areas, find a good guild.

You can't see me · Feb 12, 2008, 03:59 AM // 03:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial_Kitsune

For some reason, viable is a very popular word on GW forums. All professions are viable in PvE. If you have trouble getting through areas, find a good guild.

More time spent does not equal trouble. I simply state that I can cut through an area faster with most other classes than bringing a mesmer as my class, unless that area is heavy with caster bosses, but these areas are far and inbetween where you actually must hit all of them to get through, and the difficulty is that that you actually need a mesmer.

However, I am looking for a good guild. Do you reccomend any?

You can't see me · Feb 12, 2008, 04:01 AM // 04:01

*Posted through lack of function of the edit button*

Sadly, it is time for me to retire. I will be back to use [skill]ressurrection signet[/skill on this thread in about 17 hours.

Clarissa F · Feb 12, 2008, 04:07 AM // 04:07

Mesmers are fine as is, though I do agree with the logic of SS being a Mesmer skill. Mesmer skills make the opponent hurt themselves, for the most part. SS doesn't go into effect unless the opponent ATTACKS. Of course, the degenerative effect also gives it to the Necro line, and does fit the effect of a curse; you are cursed for attacking by degen.

As far as AoE is concerned... SS doesn't make a necro a nuker, as it is reliant on the opponent to attack or use a skill. If you just sit there for a few, it does nothing to you. Try sitting there with Searing Flames or Rodgorts Invocation on you. Not pretty. Even Chaos Storm and E-Surge are more designed for pressure than all-out damage.

Mesmers don't need a change. Just avoid PUGs and play with your guild/alliance or HnH. That way you can play the way you want to play, and the retards who believe in the trinity and think warriors are tanks can CJ to their hearts' content.

Redfeather1975 · Feb 12, 2008, 04:09 AM // 04:09

Mesmers might not need a change but PVE would be a lot more enjoyable if mesmer's strengths in skill disabling and e-denial were effective in the average fight.
Just the lack of e-denial needed in PVE alone wipes out a chunk of mesmer skill options for PVE.

Clarissa F · Feb 12, 2008, 04:17 AM // 04:17

What they need to do is change the stupid AI that gives opponents seeming unlimited E-regen. They will spam E-heavy skills that would have an ele's E-bar empty. That's something I noticed with the arrival of Nightfall. Make the AI so the Mesmer's shut-down skills work as they are supposed to. It seems that way in EotN.

Celestial_Kitsune · Feb 12, 2008, 04:25 AM // 04:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by You can't see me

However, I am looking for a good guild. Do you reccomend any?

DVDF guild has many mesmers, perhaps someone can refer you.