Curse

Bront · Apr 10, 2008, 01:17 AM // 01:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

The problem is what happens AFTER RI.
OR if the foe you ran into isn't a caster.

The mesmer will be able to prevent to prevent the damage from RI completely.
Something like PS will reduce the damage only. BUT it will reduce all damage. And do that AFTER the first hit also.
Whereas that mesmer interrupt will do NOTHING vs that warrior's attack or it will be recharging after RI (and while that caster SFs you

).

Protection reduces damage - a mesmer negates it in this scenario.
And considering that we can NOT negate all damage on a mesmer - I'd rather just reduce it - then negate some and feel the full effect of most of the skills.

If the scenario is 1 foe who casts RI ONCE then a mesmer is the superior option.
If the scenario is 5 foes - attacking you at the same time - with spells, skills AND just auto attacking - then the mesmer might not be THAT effective.
Now ask yourself - which scenario is dominant in PvE?

So, I guess that means you should take 1 of each (Prot monk and Mesmer)

I just feel that Mesmers aren't as "Bad" at PvE as others seem to think they are.

DarkSpirit · Apr 10, 2008, 02:04 AM // 02:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sab

While there are some synergies between different attributes, how many of them are worth it in PvE? For all the cases I've seen, you're better off being whatever you're imitating with SoI and bringing an Elite that does something useful.

Raising PvE spells by one attribute rank isn't all that impressive when, again, you're giving up your elite slot.

Which was why I created this thread:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10269294

..toying with the idea of using SoI to boost another elite spell, gained through arcane mimicry. Arcane mimicry is rather limited currently, but there are some long lasting enchantment spells that can still work well with it.

Although one can also argue even without SoI, the data can prove to be useful to non-primary mesmers as well, using arcane mimicry.

draxynnic · Apr 10, 2008, 03:44 AM // 03:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Now ask yourself - which scenario is dominant in PvE?

The ranger that nails the caster with Broad Head Arrow, spreads the joy around with Epidemic, and might just be carrying Volley to get a few side interrupts in the process.

upier · Apr 10, 2008, 06:16 AM // 06:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

The ranger that nails the caster with Broad Head Arrow, spreads the joy around with Epidemic, and might just be carrying Volley to get a few side interrupts in the process.

Why even bother with that?
SY + TntF and you are set.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bront

I just feel that Mesmers aren't as "Bad" at PvE as others seem to think they are.

By taking the mesmer you aren't running an optimal team. There are better options.
That's why we say that they are bad.

But once again - this only plays a role in this hypothetical discussion. PvE leaves room for error - and it's because of that that the mesmers will work. And that's evidenced every day by the people playing the game.

kranius · Apr 10, 2008, 07:15 AM // 07:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

By taking the mesmer you aren't running an optimal team. There are better options.
That's why we say that they are bad.

epic fail

do you say that because it is slightly harder to play ? yeah, maybe you should keep 1-2-3-1-2-3, its easier on your brain...

mesmer can do as much (maybe more) damage as an ele, due to armor ignoring, and also has some utility besides.

e.g : ether nightmare (assuming it's maxed) + cry of frustration + cry of pain (assuming it's also maxed) + clumsiness + wandering eye + esurge + GoLE + rez

that makes : -8 AoE health degeneration & -16 e-denial & ~420 AoE damage (armor ignoring

) & 3 AoE interutps

and this in about 5 sec... (considering fast cast)

outclass everything...

DarkSpirit · Apr 10, 2008, 07:35 AM // 07:35

I dont think mesmers are the best PvE class, but I can't think of any class that can be considered to be undeniably BEST for PvE since every class has its strengths and weaknesses. If I have to make a choice I would probably vote for necros since they can exploit energy most easily through minions and SR.

Are mesmers viable for PvE? DEFINITELY! However mesmers are a little bit of a jack of all trades but a master of none. This means they can take on alot of interesting builds but it is not clear what role they should play in PvE.

On the other hand, I have also been experimenting with some hero and human mesmer signet builds that can provide excellent party support without the need for much energy and with high armor survivability, especially when used with the right set of heroes, they can steam roll through most parts of PvE HM. This is the first version, that I posted, for a hero mesmer:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...10&postcount=3

PvE mesmers are definitely not useless, they are just different. They may not fit into traditional PvE roles in a well defined way, but they do have their own unique, although somewhat untraditional, strengths.

upier · Apr 10, 2008, 08:35 AM // 08:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by kranius

epic fail

do you say that because it is slightly harder to play ? yeah, maybe you should keep 1-2-3-1-2-3, its easier on your brain...

mesmer can do as much (maybe more) damage as an ele, due to armor ignoring, and also has some utility besides.

e.g : ether nightmare (assuming it's maxed) + cry of frustration + cry of pain (assuming it's also maxed) + clumsiness + wandering eye + esurge + GoLE + rez

that makes : -8 AoE health degeneration & -16 e-denial & ~420 AoE damage (armor ignoring

) & 3 AoE interutps

and this in about 5 sec... (considering fast cast)

outclass everything...

People who are bad at GW think that playing the mesmer in PvE requires more skill then playing any other class. Check.
People who are bad at GW consider e-denial in PvE a selling point of a build. Check.
People who are bad at GW would bring up an ele's damage output in PvE when trying to show the superiority of a certain build. Check.
People who are bad at GW are able to bring up chaos nukes of the mesmer and then state in the SAME sentence that the 1-2-3 based play is bad. Check.

Love you too!
:kiss:

kranius · Apr 10, 2008, 10:10 AM // 10:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

People who are bad at GW think that playing the mesmer in PvE requires more skill then playing any other class. Check.
People who are bad at GW consider e-denial in PvE a selling point of a build. Check.
People who are bad at GW would bring up an ele's damage output in PvE when trying to show the superiority of a certain build. Check.
People who are bad at GW are able to bring up chaos nukes of the mesmer and then state in the SAME sentence that the 1-2-3 based play is bad. Check.

Love you too!
:kiss:

notice the " ? "

not a selling point

a bonus point...

then why talk about an optimal team ?

playing this build i gave isn't 1-2-3

try it yourself...

so i am bad

Laughing Bat · Apr 10, 2008, 10:23 AM // 10:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

By taking the mesmer you aren't running an optimal team. There are better options.

By taking anything less then 6 R10 ursans with 2 monks you aren't running an optimal team from what I've heard. lol sorry couldn't resist.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

People who are bad at GW think that playing the mesmer in PvE requires more skill then playing any other class. Check.

I have to agree that its silly to say that playing a mesmer takes more skill then any other class, all of the classes are only great if you know what your doing. As far as I'm concerned the reason Mesmer is the best pve class(and pvp class but thats off topic) is because they are the most fun, for me anyways lol. For others it might be something else but idc because I h/h anytime I'm not playing with guildies lol. PvE isn't hard enough for you to need an optimal team, just people that know how to play the class they are playing and even then there are times when thats optional.

draxynnic · Apr 11, 2008, 03:58 AM // 03:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Why even bother with that?
SY + TntF and you are set.

In some cases, depending on exactly what it is you're looking to prevent. Doesn't help shut down ubermonks, for instance

.

(Although a knockdownlock Warrior might...)

The ranger is an example of something performing the role better. SY+Tntf simply makes the role redundant against some opponents.

More importantly, however, is that you can't put SY + Tntf on a hero, while a dazebot Ranger, while not as effective as a human running the build, still works.