Curse

azzer20 · Mar 06, 2008, 02:48 PM // 14:48

Fire elementalists damage are so bad it hurts my ees, go earth, now A mesmer can do loads of damage, that AoE degen hex, + Cof, + that AoE damage when a thuing is hexed, that's 2 secs of cast for around 300 damage

DarkSpirit · Mar 11, 2008, 08:25 AM // 08:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by legless477

There is a reason mesmers arent used in pve as much as other classes....its because they are very effective at shutting down 1 char which is virtually useless in pve because...killing 1 person is not efficient at all in pve

Then dont play a shutdown mesmer in PvE. Problem solved.

Quote:

...if u combined sig of illusions with aoe spells....mabey just mabey it would be less effective then a ele...so even how mesmers are pwnage i think they will never play a very large part past the support/utility roll in pve... =/

Why? The purpose of SoI is to make the skill at least as effective as those from an ele.

The power of SoI is not in the fact that a mesmer can act like a fire ele. It is that the mesmer has the potential to bring effective skills from many different attribute lines, synergize them, and come up with a new effective build.

Brian the Gladiator · Mar 12, 2008, 12:55 PM // 12:55

Another strength to SoI is that you can take skills from another attribute line, and instead of applying that classes primary attribute, you can apply the mesmer primary attribute (fast casting) without lowering the damage of the skill itself (runes).

The point that I'm trying to make here is simple. If you take skills with long cast times, apply them to a mesmer, and keep the attribute at its highest limit, then it will be more efficient than if it were on its original caster class with the cast times un-buffed.

EDIT: an added bonus is the fact that you can bring PvE only skills at rank 11 (with 16 in illusion), which is 1 rank higher than the maximum the title can hold.

cgruber · Mar 13, 2008, 03:12 PM // 15:12

SOI + Barbs + summmon assasin + arcane echo

Avarre · Mar 14, 2008, 01:38 AM // 01:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

The power of SoI is not in the fact that a mesmer can act like a fire ele. It is that the mesmer has the potential to bring effective skills from many different attribute lines, synergize them, and come up with a new effective build.

The problem with this is that synergistic skills are usually in the same attribute line in the first place, since they were meant to be used in builds without SoI.

Dodo The Extinct · Mar 14, 2008, 02:09 AM // 02:09

The power of SoL is that you can use imbalanced PvE Skills at crazy levels. Nuff said.

DarkSpirit · Mar 14, 2008, 03:44 AM // 03:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

The problem with this is that synergistic skills are usually in the same attribute line in the first place, since they were meant to be used in builds without SoI.

Not necessarily. Just looking at the Ele profession, we have:

1) Steam(water)/Earthen Shackle(earth) and Burning(fire)
2) Enervating Charge(air) and Glowstone/Stoning(earth)

...and I am sure we can find even more synergies across professions to the other mesmer skills. SoI allows the different attributes lines to be at level 16, with only 1 superior Illusion rune, and still max Fast Casting (level 13).

Avarre · Mar 14, 2008, 04:17 AM // 04:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Not necessarily. Just looking at the Ele profession, we have:

1) Steam(water)/Earthen Shackle(earth) and Burning(fire)
2) Enervating Charge(air) and Glowstone/Stoning(earth)

...and I am sure we can find even more synergies across professions to the other mesmer skills. SoI allows the different attributes lines to be at level 16, with only 1 superior Illusion rune, and still max Fast Casting (level 13).

Just about all those combinations can be done better by a single skill, rather than using 3 skills.

Terraban · Mar 14, 2008, 04:20 AM // 04:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Not necessarily. Just looking at the Ele profession, we have:

1) Steam(water)/Earthen Shackle(earth) and Burning(fire)
2) Enervating Charge(air) and Glowstone/Stoning(earth)

...and I am sure we can find even more synergies across professions to the other mesmer skills. SoI allows the different attributes lines to be at level 16, with only 1 superior Illusion rune, and still max Fast Casting (level 13).

Are you really using them godly combinations? I am sorry, but I hope I am never partied with you.

DarkSpirit · Mar 14, 2008, 04:47 AM // 04:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terraban

Are you really using them godly combinations? I am sorry, but I hope I am never partied with you.

Am I suppose to feel bad about you not partying with me?

Thanks for your very "useful" reply. I am sure we all learnt alot from it.

Sab · Mar 14, 2008, 04:48 AM // 04:48

While there are some synergies between different attributes, how many of them are worth it in PvE? For all the cases I've seen, you're better off being whatever you're imitating with SoI and bringing an Elite that does something useful.

Raising PvE spells by one attribute rank isn't all that impressive when, again, you're giving up your elite slot. Arguing that SoI is a substitute for title grind is like making a build that works without the two 15 attribute point quests completed. Build discussion should assume you have everything you need to run the build.

DarkSpirit · Mar 14, 2008, 05:00 AM // 05:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sab

While there are some synergies between different attributes, how many of them are worth it in PvE? For all the cases I've seen, you're better off being whatever you're imitating with SoI and bringing an Elite that does something useful.

Raising PvE spells by one attribute rank isn't all that impressive when, again, you're giving up your elite slot. Arguing that SoI is a substitute for title grind is like making a build that works without the two 15 attribute point quests completed. Build discussion should assume you have everything you need to run the build.

You are right that SoI alone should not be THE reason mesmers are the best PvE class. The SoI build is just a tool for mesmers to somewhat compensate for their weakness in PvE compared to the other core classes.

I never think of mesmers as the best PvE class, in fact I think they are weaker in PvE compared to the other classes, and I hope ANet would eventually improve the PvE mesmers (wishful thinking...)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Just about all those combinations can be done better by a single skill, rather than using 3 skills.

There is no single skill that produces all these conditions, damages and buff, which is why you need synergy across different attributes and SoI provides that at level 16.

visitor · Apr 09, 2008, 05:23 AM // 05:23

Well i think we can all agree with that Mesmer STILL arnt considered THE BEST, however now they compete in effectivity(spelling) with wars,sins,ritus and dervs or are at least equal.

Bront · Apr 09, 2008, 05:35 AM // 05:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sab

While there are some synergies between different attributes, how many of them are worth it in PvE? For all the cases I've seen, you're better off being whatever you're imitating with SoI and bringing an Elite that does something useful.

Raising PvE spells by one attribute rank isn't all that impressive when, again, you're giving up your elite slot. Arguing that SoI is a substitute for title grind is like making a build that works without the two 15 attribute point quests completed. Build discussion should assume you have everything you need to run the build.

I agree with this.

I've never found SoI to be of any interest, particularly because it doesn't synergyse with gear. I'd rather have E-Surge, Power Block, or even an Elite from a secondary. If you're going to go Illusions, take Illusion skills. If you're not, put points in other skills.

If you need more than 3 attribute lines with lots of points, SoI could be useful, but at that point, you're spreading yourself thin, if you can't get SoI up, you're less effective, and SoI is a wasted skill slot on a build.

Quote:

Originally Posted by visitor

Well i think we can all agree with that Mesmer STILL arnt considered THE BEST, however now they compete in effectivity(spelling) with wars,sins,ritus and dervs or are at least equal.

There is no "The Best" in PvE or otherwise.

Mesmers aren't given the credit they're due in PvE because many people expect either DPS or Healing in PvE. A Mesmer can be as if not more useful that a protection monk, and can deal damage or other hindering things to his opponents as well.

It's pretty easy to spot the direct damage dealers when you steamroll something, but it's harder to notice the interupts, denial, and indirect damage, particularly when it's done via spells that effect the opponent only. (unlike monk protects or rit weapon spells)

upier · Apr 09, 2008, 08:35 AM // 08:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bront

A Mesmer can be as if not more useful that a protection monk, and can deal damage or other hindering things to his opponents as well.

I am scared!

Bront · Apr 09, 2008, 10:14 AM // 10:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

I am scared!

Not saying they're a replacement, but preventing a mob from casting Rogarts Invocation is more protection than any Prot spell a monk can cast. (vs that individual spell)

upier · Apr 09, 2008, 12:18 PM // 12:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bront

Not saying they're a replacement, but preventing a mob from casting Rogarts Invocation is more protection than any Prot spell a monk can cast. (vs that individual spell)

The problem is what happens AFTER RI.
OR if the foe you ran into isn't a caster.

The mesmer will be able to prevent to prevent the damage from RI completely.
Something like PS will reduce the damage only. BUT it will reduce all damage. And do that AFTER the first hit also.
Whereas that mesmer interrupt will do NOTHING vs that warrior's attack or it will be recharging after RI (and while that caster SFs you

).

Protection reduces damage - a mesmer negates it in this scenario.
And considering that we can NOT negate all damage on a mesmer - I'd rather just reduce it - then negate some and feel the full effect of most of the skills.

If the scenario is 1 foe who casts RI ONCE then a mesmer is the superior option.
If the scenario is 5 foes - attacking you at the same time - with spells, skills AND just auto attacking - then the mesmer might not be THAT effective.
Now ask yourself - which scenario is dominant in PvE?

visitor · Apr 09, 2008, 12:41 PM // 12:41

[/QUOTE]It's pretty easy to spot the direct damage dealers when you steamroll something, but it's harder to notice the interupts, denial, and indirect damage, particularly when it's done via spells that effect the opponent only. (unlike monk protects or rit weapon spells)[/QUOTE]

Well i dont know about the rest of GW player but I tend to notice when a enemies hp goes down by a 1/10 everytime it attacks

kranius · Apr 09, 2008, 12:54 PM // 12:54

ether nightmare + cry of pain + cry of frustration + wandering eye + clumsiness + esurged + GoLE + rez = win

powerfull armor ignoring aoe damage + aoe interrupt + edenial > brainlessnuker or necro

ironox · Apr 09, 2008, 08:01 PM // 20:01

SoI Mesmer. Best? Dunno about that (a few people have already mentioned paras). Most entertaining? Without a doubt. With 16 illusion and 13 FC you have a level of build flexibility unrivaled in the game. Especially when you throw in Arcane Mimicry (love having my own Golem), Larceny, Inspired Hex/Enchantment etc. Not to mention instant top rank in the PvE spells.

As far as effectiveness? My para is awesome at keeping everyone alive, my sin kills ridiculously quickly, the other 7 all have their strengths, but on the mesmer with SoI and a decent skillbar, I tend to forget I am in HM. Which is good enough for me.