Curse

Martin Firestorm · Jun 26, 2008, 07:49 PM // 19:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by =DNC=Trucker

On another note, has anyone found anything good in Deadly Arts to use? I've looked through skills but nothing caught my eye...

Not a death skill, but I like the faction skill shadow sanctuary on an AP bar. 30 sec recharge is the only problem with that skill for casters, which AP solves. I don't use it a lot, but its a lifesaver when you need it.

Chthon · Jun 26, 2008, 09:43 PM // 21:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow Slave

Havn't tried this build yet, but [skill]Augury of Death[/skill] is just dam smexy in most builds of this type.

Shame about the casting range I suppose...and the fact that you may well end up being teleported into the middle of a mob......buuuut when you look past all that, it's dam hot.

Very much looking forward to trying this build out.

No point when [finish him] is available.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vazze

I would try to score the kill as soon as I can and nuke again with a fresh CoP instead of nuking twice /cycle. Double CoP has huge energy cost and needs serious e-management + with all the preparation leading to the 2nd CoP (AI+AE), it is slow, the double CoP comes after 6-7s(!!!) (a single high DPS character can kill a target in 6-7s, not to mention a good team, which means you can easily loose your trigger hex and you can't even nuke...)
But if you finish your target in 5s with quick high damage skills (using only one CoP) , you can trigger AP more often =>> more CoP/more energy.

You're a mesmer; you're going to need serious e-management no matter what you do. Yes, arcane echo adds 2 sec to the first cycle. But it's unrealistic that you'd be able to complete an entire second cycle with 1 CoP in 2 seconds. The second and third cycles are only extended by the extra CoP's cast time. Realistically, Arcane Echo allows 5-6 CoP's where without it you could do only 3. Also, last time I checked, a mesmer does not have any "quick high damage skills" that are quicker or higher-damaging than CoP.

One other thing: The only thing that makes this build even halfway competitive with the AP-MoP necro is the huge radius on CoP. Focusing on single-target damage (or even adjacent-range damage) guarantees that your build is going to be second class compared to a necro. Mesmers need to focus on CoP, because that's all they've got.

Martin Firestorm · Jun 27, 2008, 04:44 PM // 16:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

Mesmers need to focus on CoP, because that's all they've got.

I'm curious, what's your opinion of ether nightmare (in addition to CoP, not instead of)? Also covers a wide area, though its just degen instead of instant damage.

kostolomac · Jun 27, 2008, 06:03 PM // 18:03

^Degen in PvE is bad.

As for e-management , I use [Air of Superiority]

Chthon · Jun 28, 2008, 04:06 AM // 04:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Firestorm

I'm curious, what's your opinion of ether nightmare (in addition to CoP, not instead of)? Also covers a wide area, though its just degen instead of instant damage.

1. Generally, degen is relatively weak. Even 10 degen is only 20DPS. However, AoE degen with a good radius and duration is effective if you can use it to damage off-target foes you wouldn't otherwise be able to damage for awhile while you're busy with more important foes. 20DPS against a single target is trivial, but 20DPS applied to every monster in a mob isn't.

2. Ether Nightmare's biggest weakness is that it doesn't outperform other cheaper, faster-casting, and even non-PvE-only skills for that role. Looking at upkeep ratios, range, and rate of degen, you'd be hard pressed to take more life off the monsters with EN than with well of suffering, rotting flesh, signet of infection, or radiation field, to name a few.

3. In the specific context of AP-CoP builds, it stinks. The 3 sec cast is just too loooooong. You want to be snapping off proc hex, CoP, CoP, AP, Finish Him (mixing in e-management and arcane echo when needed), and then repeating as quickly as possible. Spending 3 sec casting your proc hex is going to really hurt the speed of your CoP spam.

(Now, if EN had a 1sec cast, I'd definitely be using it as my proc hex. But it doesn't.)

Shadow Slave · Jun 28, 2008, 11:47 AM // 11:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

No point when [finish him] is available.

[skill]Augury of Death[/skill] is cheaper....and I was just suggesting a skill in the DA line that is appropriate to this build ~

....plus it doesnt require you to monitor the enemies health bar in the hope that your 10e Shout will be used wisely....

meh

Vazze · Jun 30, 2008, 02:37 AM // 02:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

You're a mesmer; you're going to need serious e-management no matter what you do. Yes, arcane echo adds 2 sec to the first cycle. But it's unrealistic that you'd be able to complete an entire second cycle with 1 CoP in 2 seconds. The second and third cycles are only extended by the extra CoP's cast time. Realistically, Arcane Echo allows 5-6 CoP's where without it you could do only 3. Also, last time I checked, a mesmer does not have any "quick high damage skills" that are quicker or higher-damaging than CoP.

One other thing: The only thing that makes this build even halfway competitive with the AP-MoP necro is the huge radius on CoP. Focusing on single-target damage (or even adjacent-range damage) guarantees that your build is going to be second class compared to a necro. Mesmers need to focus on CoP, because that's all they've got.

No, AE adds ~4s to the first cycle, you have to sum the cast times and aftercasts of AI and AE (I assume you use AI on AE). During this 4s there is no damage, the trigger hex has to stay...and target has to stay alive, tough conditions, I would be surprised if you did not loose AP way too often with this setup. In the second and third cycles it is nice to have two copies of CoPs but what if 280+DW damage is not enough to score the kill? Again: no damage for a few seconds because there is no space on the skill bar for damage dealing skills.
Lol second class, I am sure you can finish 99% of HM PvE with either one of them, even with heroes. Actually, you could do 100% if elite areas weren't ursan&tank/nuke territories.

Chthon · Jun 30, 2008, 03:39 AM // 03:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vazze

No, AE adds ~4s to the first cycle, you have to sum the cast times and aftercasts of AI and AE (I assume you use AI on AE).

1. You have to cast AI (or whatever other e-management you're using) anyway. Switching from AE+CoP to some other damage to finish off your target is not going to save you enough energy to make that unnecessary. So it's not accurate to count the cast time for AI for the dual CoP variant but not the single CoP variant.

2. Fast Casting. For once it's actually a useful attribute in PvE.

Vazze · Jun 30, 2008, 06:26 AM // 06:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

1. You have to cast AI (or whatever other e-management you're using) anyway. Switching from AE+CoP to some other damage to finish off your target is not going to save you enough energy to make that unnecessary. So it's not accurate to count the cast time for AI for the dual CoP variant but not the single CoP variant.

2. Fast Casting. For once it's actually a useful attribute in PvE.

At deadly11 AP is net +11 energy, at illusion10 ethereal burden is net +3 energy, and in 5-6s at 4pips ~8energy will be regenerated: total 22energy/cycle. The most obvious damage skills in a possible "short" combo are probably CoP, FH and unnatural sig: 350 damage and +2 energy. If these are followed by shatter delusions and YMLD in the "long" combo, that is 490 damage and we are at -13 energy/cycle (wastrel's worry could also work in certain combinations). AI is not a must, but if more energy is needed ether sig works even at inspiration0 (and ES does not have to be casted between the trigger hex and CoP like AI)

Martin Firestorm · Jun 30, 2008, 04:10 PM // 16:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

3. In the specific context of AP-CoP builds, it stinks. The 3 sec cast is just too loooooong. You want to be snapping off proc hex, CoP, CoP, AP, Finish Him (mixing in e-management and arcane echo when needed), and then repeating as quickly as possible. Spending 3 sec casting your proc hex is going to really hurt the speed of your CoP spam.

(Now, if EN had a 1sec cast, I'd definitely be using it as my proc hex. But it doesn't.)

Yeah, that hurts. The one sort of good thing is since you have an aoe hex, you often can CoP the next foe after a death without casting another hex. But its still too flawed to be on the bar.

Chthon · Jul 16, 2008, 12:37 PM // 12:37

Since I've been asked for the attributes, I thought I'd take a moment to clean up the build.

Currently I'm using this:

[build box prof=Me/A Fastcast=8+1, IL=8+4, IN=10+1, DA=10][Assassin's Promise][Fragility][Arcane Echo][Cry of Pain][Finish Him][Auspicious Incantation] |free| |free| [/build]

You can change the attributes around a fair amount without changing the build much. Illusion is only there to make fragility do meaningful damage when Finish Him hits. You can decide to use fragility as a "null" hex and reassign Illusion's points elsewhere.

For the free spaces, I tend to use [leech signet] and [ebon vanguard assassin support]. Sometimes [great dwarf weapon] if the team composition is physical heavy. Since neither of these spaces is critical to the build, you can put whatever you like here. However, if you have teams that aren't good at following calls, having some sort of damage-dealing potential so that you can push a target into Finish Him range can be helpful.

Avarre · Jul 16, 2008, 02:00 PM // 14:00

Just as a random note, I used disrupting dagger a great deal when playing AP builds. Yeah, it messes up positioning but if you're H/Hing you're often charging ahead anyway, and it's a nice skill-interrupt on a short recharge. Then again, that was before buffs to pspike.

DarkSpirit · Jul 16, 2008, 03:55 PM // 15:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Yeah, it messes up positioning but if you're H/Hing you're often charging ahead anyway, and it's a nice skill-interrupt on a short recharge.

I H/H with my mesmer often but I dont really charge ahead, since that is alittle suicidal for a squishy. I flag my team closeby, then pull, then go behind my team before I attack.

toastgodsupreme · Jul 24, 2008, 09:03 PM // 21:03

CoP is fun, just ran through Ruins of Surmia HM on this build:
[S C H A L A's Skills;OQdVAyAKyR4VS0hFYByGcDwmcESAAA]

While effective in dropping the enemy, it lacked some of the utility that I was used to with this build:
[S C H A L A's Skills;OQdTA0B6ZaBaX0m0NzHIuZEyAAA]

At least for HM, I prefer bringing SigHum for the sake of disabling healers.

The added effect of a first-in-the-fight decoy is also nice. Plus the Vanguard sin has Iron Palm and by the time I've summoned him, I've dropped cripple on his target so [iron palm] can knock the target down AGAIN. It's fun to chain KD.

Both builds I ran with a three necro Discord set up. Both were effective.

I guess in these low areas CoP isn't as effective due to the small numbers of the groups.

MisterT69 · Jul 24, 2008, 11:00 PM // 23:00

I like the abuse of the PVE skills, but instead of bringing ebon assassin's and KD or w/e, I feel it's more resourceful to bring some actual power, [wandering eye] and [clumsiness] work very well in this build

weretoad · Jul 25, 2008, 12:55 AM // 00:55

i thought it would be cool (not really good) to run arcane minicry and a partner/hero uses SoL so AM recharges frequently and you can run a wider skill range

KMVRanger · Jul 25, 2008, 07:58 PM // 19:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow Slave

Havn't tried this build yet, but [skill]Augury of Death[/skill] is just dam smexy in most builds of this type.

Shame about the casting range I suppose...and the fact that you may well end up being teleported into the middle of a mob......buuuut when you look past all that, it's dam hot.

I run Augury (enchant conund/migraine)Phantom/shatter delusions/blackout and then maybe empathy/ether feast/drain enchant

The Augury spike is for monks with blackout keeping them from healing themselves. And yes you do occasionally teleport into a mob (woo hoo) but it's not enough of a problem to discredit the build.