Curse

sixofone · Jul 16, 2008, 10:30 PM // 22:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

Its Skill recharge that always limited mesmers more than anything.

Like you said, AP addresses that. But, I always wondered why FC never touched the recharge of spells and signets? (I know FC = fast casting. But, the description of a Mesmer was that they were a form of magical duelist, and should not only be quicker on the draw but on the recovery, too! Especially given how few AoE skills they had.) Perhaps it was recognized that Mesmers would too easily pwn the game?

DarkSpirit · Jul 16, 2008, 10:41 PM // 22:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

if you need more energy management your doing it wrong, its hard to need more than you get from things like drain enchant, power drain etc and by saying " I take power drain cause i need a interrupt" is just helping my point.

How is it helping your point when I dont usually need to bring an interrupt? I only said I would bring it if I need an interrupt.

With the network lag I am experiencing, it makes more sense for my heroes/henchies to bring the interrupts instead.

This is why I dont bring power drain on my mesmer nowadays with heroes having such terrific reflexes and zero lag. The only interrupt I bring, nowadays, is [[Cry of Pain] which is alot more forgiving in terms of reward even if I missed interrupting it.

Quote:

Yes GoLE takes 0Att but you dont need it and its just a wast of a slot that may have been used for something more useful

But it gives me energy whenever I need it, rather than sitting and waiting for a spell to be cast.

JDRyder · Jul 16, 2008, 11:19 PM // 23:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

How is it helping your point when I dont usually need to bring an interrupt? I only said I would bring it if I need an interrupt.

your a mesmer interrupts are on the list of things that make a good build. Its helping my point cause you not only interrupt but you also getting 20e for it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

With the network lag I am experiencing, it makes more sense for my heroes/henchies to bring the interrupts instead.

[guilt] and you can both have them

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

This is why I dont bring power drain on my mesmer nowadays with heroes having such terrific reflexes and zero lag. The only interrupt I bring, nowadays, is [Cry of Pain] which is a lot more forgiving in terms of reward even if I missed interrupting it.

hero's are also dumb, Ive seen them sit next to a ele casting MS 4feet a way with all their interrupts charged and still not doing any thing about it. Heros also dont know any thing about tactics really, they may have good reflex but there's no point to that if they dont interrupt the most harmful spells.

Are you saying you never play with other players? you can H/H every thing but if you did you'd get board of the game in a matter of days. You cant always use them as a crutch.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

But it gives me energy whenever I need it, rather than sitting and waiting for a spell to be cast.

yea but something you need to be doing any way. Most the time the E-management you get from GoLE is wasted as a mesmer cause you dont need that much energy management, and its just wasting a slot for something you dont need, Things like guilt and drain enchant will be all you will ever need as a mesmer in the terms of. With the mesmer insp skills your doing good in 2 ways, your getting energy and removing enchant/hexes or stopping them from casting, this helps your team more than GoLE by far and you will not run out of energy

rick1027 · Jul 16, 2008, 11:22 PM // 23:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixofone

Like you said, AP addresses that. But, I always wondered why FC never touched the recharge of spells and signets? (I know FC = fast casting. But, the description of a Mesmer was that they were a form of magical duelist, and should not only be quicker on the draw but on the recovery, too! Especially given how few AoE skills they had.) Perhaps it was recognized that Mesmers would too easily pwn the game?

maybe with the separation of pve and pvp we will see a little mesmer love here

DarkSpirit · Jul 17, 2008, 12:22 AM // 00:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

your a mesmer interrupts are on the list of things that make a good build. Its helping my point cause you not only interrupt but you also getting 20e for it.

Interrupt is not the ONLY way to play a mesmer. A good player should be open minded to different build possibilities.

Quote:

hero's are also dumb, Ive seen them sit next to a ele casting MS 4feet a way with all their interrupts charged and still not doing any thing about it. Heros also dont know any thing about tactics really, they may have good reflex but there's no point to that if they dont interrupt the most harmful spells.

Their reflexes more than make up for it. If you want a better interrupt, simply use a BHA ranger and daze your target. That way you can interrupt any spells.

There are many different ways to play a mesmer. I usually play an AP mesmer because shutdown is so lame in PvE when you can simply nuke. When it comes to nuking, I need energy as and when I want it. Some inspiration skills are just not suitable as e-management for a nuking build because they are highly conditional.

JDRyder · Jul 17, 2008, 12:42 AM // 00:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Interrupt is not the ONLY way to play a mesmer. A good player should be open minded to different build possibilities.

Mesmer w/o at least 2 or 3 interrupt/shut down skills is like a War with out IAS

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Their reflexes more than make up for it. If you want a better interrupt, simply use a BHA ranger and daze your target. That way you can interrupt any spells.

There are many different ways to play a mesmer. I usually play an AP mesmer because shutdown is so lame in PvE when you can simply nuke. When it comes to nuking, I need energy as and when I want it. Some inspiration skills are just not suitable as e-management for a nuking build because they are highly conditional.

yes there is many ways to do things but interrupting/shut down is to mesmer as healing is to monk. Shut down/interrupts saves lives and monks energy.

What do you mean when it comes to nuking, if you want to nuke play ele. This has nothing to do with MESMER energy management that has to do with ELE energy management. Before you say it, Yes many classes can do what they were not made for. People have made dervs/eles/mesmers etc in to healers, does this mean they are as good monks? No but it can be done and its better to just play monk if you want to heal/prot.

-Lotus- · Jul 17, 2008, 06:25 AM // 06:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

yes there is many ways to do things but interrupting/shut down is to mesmer as healing is to monk. Shut down/interrupts saves lives and monks energy.

dead monsters are more shutdown than monsters who are being shutdown by a mesmer

upier · Jul 17, 2008, 08:09 AM // 08:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

Mesmer w/o at least 2 or 3 interrupt/shut down skills is like a War with out IAS

Ohh sweet baby Jesus!
In PvE?

Sorry for taking the thread off FC - but you could dump those 10 points that you'd put into Inspiration into a secondary line. I dump them into Deadly for a VERY sweet AP which does more then Inspiration can ever do in PvE.
You could dump it into curses or earth.
Inspiration is my absolutely favorite line in the game - but considering what my other options are - I don't put points into it anymore.

JDRyder · Jul 17, 2008, 08:22 AM // 08:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Lotus-

dead monsters are more shutdown than monsters who are being shutdown by a mesmer

id like to see this team build that kills every thing in a 5secs tops. You dont need 6 people doing damage and 2 monks, we have gone over this before. Having 2 defense 3 damage 1 support 2 monks is a way better IMO due to the fact that if you have 6 damage dealers your not using all the damage your dealing, the only reason people use full damage tactics in pve is for pugs lacking the understanding needed to understand how the game works. When your in a guild or something, having a mesmer interrupting the mobs that are not dead is more helpful than 6 people doing damage and only needing half of the damage used. If you have ever played the game I'm sure you've been casting a skill and by the time your done casting the target gets hit a few times and you wasted the skill on the last 2% of the targets HP something that was better off to just ward killed, Im sure you guys know this cause this is why you same mesmer is useless in pve. When this happens your team has more DPS then needed for the area and the teams efficiency and effectiveness goes down. By having 3-4 damage dealers, your team will use their skills to the fullest and the efficiency and effectiveness goes up. Having NPCs spells interrupted will save monks energy cause the damage or hex that was to be, never happened, so your monks didnt need to heal or remove saving them 5-20+ energy. This also means your team is a lot stronger and will be able to take on more with out a problem at the same speed "if not faster" as a team with 6 damage dealers cause your only using half of the damage being dealt. Im sure people that have played in the shiverpeaks remember the monster skill called Giant Stomp this is nothing a interrupt cant fix and it will boost your teams DPS cause they are not knocked down.

This team build set up is very similar to a good monk bar. If you have a bar of 8 heals, all you have is 8 skills that do the same thing and that you dont need as many of. Most likely will not use most of them and all you can do is hit a key and make a bar go up. It will be next to impossible to use the build with efficiency and effectiveness when compared it to a hybrid build that only uses 1 or 2 skills to heal. With the Hybrid bar you have a skill for Healing, a skill for If they are getting hit by melee, if they are getting hit by high damage, something to remove cons, something to remove hexes and maybe energy management, you will be able to use the hybrid bar a lot more effective and efficient cause the hybrid only need 2 skills for its prim use "healing" and has more open slots for other useful tools to make it more effective and efficient, your also able to do more and removing a hex or con can boost the DPS of your team making them more effective.

If you compare the build of 8 heals to the team with 6 damage dealers, its easy to see how the efficiency and effectiveness jumps when you take out things you have excessive amounts of.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Ohh sweet baby Jesus!
In PvE?

Sorry for taking the thread off FC - but you could dump those 10 points that you'd put into Inspiration into a secondary line. I dump them into Deadly for a VERY sweet AP which does more then Inspiration can ever do in PvE.
You could dump it into curses or earth.
Inspiration is my absolutely favorite line in the game - but considering what my other options are - I don't put points into it anymore.

when you give me a good reason of why, using AP you have to take up your elite and att points for 1 skill taking something like drain enchant is more effective cause you can also use many other skills. Mesmer skills recharge fast enough if you dont spam w/o thinking, like putting guilt on a war, empathy on a caster or the most common when it comes to any form of interrupting, spamming interrupts in the hope of getting something.

upier · Jul 17, 2008, 08:52 AM // 08:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

when you give me a good reason of why, using AP you have to take up your elite and att points for 1 skill taking something like drain enchant is more effective cause you can also use many other skills. Mesmer skills recharge fast enough if you dont spam w/o thinking, like putting guilt on a war, empathy on a caster or the most common when it comes to any form of interrupting, spamming interrupts in the hope of getting something.

To put this into as simple words as possible:
If you are thinking - you are not killing.

That's the reality of PvE.

JDRyder · Jul 17, 2008, 09:20 AM // 09:20

no this means your button mashing, if you think you can kill faster cause you know whats going on.

upier · Jul 17, 2008, 09:50 AM // 09:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

no this means your button mashing, if you think you can kill faster cause you know whats going on.

The please explain how dropping an E-Burn every 20 secs will "kill" things?
Or a Shatter Ench every 25?

Ohh sorry - dropping it every 20/25 secs would mean you are spamming.
You'd need to select the RIGHT target first!

JDRyder · Jul 17, 2008, 10:25 AM // 10:25

I dont use Eburn in pve or pvp really and shatter does about 100 damage and removes a enchant, its part of being a support class your not trying to kill them "maybe make them easier to kill" your trying to support you team etc

IMO your just trolling now by saying stuff like thinking is bad

upier · Jul 17, 2008, 10:53 AM // 10:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

I dont use Eburn in pve or pvp really and shatter does about 100 damage and removes a enchant, its part of being a support class your not trying to kill them "maybe make them easier to kill" your trying to support you team etc

IMO your just trolling now by saying stuff like thinking is bad

That's why I bolded a part of your post.
The time spent thinking which foe should get hit by what or waiting for that special moment to use a skill is time wasted in PvE.
Things will die in seconds.
Either you help in that process - or you don't.
And if you don't - well then I don't want you in my party.

The special moment to use your skill is ALWAYS now.

around · Jul 17, 2008, 10:55 AM // 10:55

Fast Casting isn't 'bad', it's just not up to standard.

SR is just plain nutty. Free energy every time something dies? YES PLZ.
Expertise is the same.
Divine Favor heals for free.
Crit Strikes again gives you free energy and boosts your damage to boot.

Notice a trend here?

Magikarp · Jul 17, 2008, 02:13 PM // 14:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

That's why I bolded a part of your post.
The time spent thinking which foe should get hit by what or waiting for that special moment to use a skill is time wasted in PvE.
Things will die in seconds.
Either you help in that process - or you don't.
And if you don't - well then I don't want you in my party.

The special moment to use your skill is ALWAYS now.

bad playing is bad. learn not to spam and you'll be a better player in all realms of GWs.

imo AP is a waste of a mesmer elite and only proves laziness in a player who can't learn to play a class effectively. but then again, hey, isn't that what you think pve is? lazy retard button mashing by rolling your face on the keyboard yelling "KILL FASTUR!"?

upier · Jul 17, 2008, 03:04 PM // 15:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magikarp

bad playing is bad. learn not to spam and you'll be a better player in all realms of GWs.

imo AP is a waste of a mesmer elite and only proves laziness in a player who can't learn to play a class effectively. but then again, hey, isn't that what you think pve is? lazy retard button mashing by rolling your face on the keyboard yelling "KILL FASTUR!"?

I think I am playing a different version of GW then you are.
My foes die too fast to play the mesmer as it should be played.
Must be bugged or something.

Magikarp · Jul 17, 2008, 03:05 PM // 15:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

I think I am playing a different version of GW then you are.
My foes die too fast to play the mesmer as it should be played.
Must be bugged or something.

funny, so do mine, and yet my fingers don't bleed when im done.

DarkSpirit · Jul 17, 2008, 03:39 PM // 15:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

Mesmer w/o at least 2 or 3 interrupt/shut down skills is like a War with out IAS

yes there is many ways to do things but interrupting/shut down is to mesmer as healing is to monk. Shut down/interrupts saves lives and monks energy.

You are over emphasizing mesmer interrupt. I like interrupts but I wouldn't say it is as essential to a mesmer build as healing is to monk.

This is probably OT, but daze is the uber pve interrupt condition nowadays and a ranger has better interrupting capabilities than a mesmer so why do you insist on playing the second fiddle? In any case, we can argue that point in another long thread.

Quote:

What do you mean when it comes to nuking, if you want to nuke play ele. This has nothing to do with MESMER energy management that has to do with ELE energy management. Before you say it, Yes many classes can do what they were not made for. People have made dervs/eles/mesmers etc in to healers, does this mean they are as good monks? No but it can be done and its better to just play monk if you want to heal/prot.

Ele nuking is different. Ele has slow casting but devastating AoE elemental skills, while a mesmer use armor ignoring skills.

I read the posts of many people like you before. PvE mesmers MUST play shutdown no matter what. PvE mesmers MUST play an interrupter no matter what. All other mesmer builds no matter how effective they are in HM, are irrelevant and you shut your ears and mind to all other build ideas.

Sorry to say this, but that is just extreme narrow-mindedness.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magikarp

bad playing is bad. learn not to spam and you'll be a better player in all realms of GWs.

imo AP is a waste of a mesmer elite and only proves laziness in a player who can't learn to play a class effectively. but then again, hey, isn't that what you think pve is? lazy retard button mashing by rolling your face on the keyboard yelling "KILL FASTUR!"?

I have to remind you what do you think the goal of PvE is? To me, the goal of PvE is very simple, to clear the area as fast as possible with the least amount of casualties. And before you start by saying "oh but that is not a mesmer's job, that is an Ele's job", I will say that it is possible for a mesmer to clear HM areas faster than an ele.

If your goal is to clear the area slowly just because you are playing your mesmer, so you can say: "hey looky here, see how skillful I am please give me your approval everyone, I am not button mashing, I can play with the monsters by shuting that one down and interrupting this one here and there" then I feel sorry for you. You are not using your mesmer as effectively as you can, in PvE.

I dont play my mesmers because I think it is a weak class so that I can show off my gamer skills to others. I play my mesmers, ever since GW started, because I know that they can be made to be effective even though they are not the strongest pve class.

sixofone · Jul 17, 2008, 03:42 PM // 15:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

I think I am playing a different version of GW then you are.
My foes die too fast to play the mesmer as it should be played.
Must be bugged or something.

LOL

Upier - you always make me laugh, man!

I think you're right. A Mesmer in PvE can't be played like they would in PvP. (No e-denial strategies; interrupts are helpful, but it's really about dealing damage in PvE.)

Both of you achieve the same result - mobs die quickly. So, all you're arguing is preference in play style.

And, AP does work as great e-management plus allows for spamming damage dealing skills! Whether it's your poison of taste or not is a separate issue.

Back on point: wasn't this thread about Fast Casting?