Curse

snaek · Sep 05, 2008, 07:12 PM // 19:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ariena Najea

Unless you're specing for [[Fragility], it only lasts 8 seconds. Assuming your spike works flawlessly this is fine, but what if *something* goes wrong (ex. [[cry of frustration] on your spike) and your initial spike fails? [[mind wrack] lasts for 30 seconds which allows for the full recharge of [[cry of pain].

i highly doubt that...
cryway usually has a tank

even if a cof goes off
it'll prolly end up on the 1s hex
and not teh 1/4s cop

even so...if ur [cry of pain] is interupted
u could cast another [fragility] during teh down-time

Tyla · Sep 05, 2008, 09:06 PM // 21:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onyx Blindbow

That IS the reason for Ether Nightmare, there is no other reason as I explained above, it is an AOE hex to ensure that at least one of the group your about to CoP is hexed

Yet CTRL + Space + non-retarded Cryway group = win. Sorry, but incompetence doesn't mean that it is more effective to save a PvE skill slot.

Quote:

You are aware of this but you still question why people are using Ether Nightmare ???

It's not just PuGs, you know.

I just wanted to get my point straight in the first place, but the most recent quote of you just put me off this entire argument with you altogether. The reason is that you try to argue why Ether Nightmare is better because it's foolproof, so Cryway PuGs can actually accomplish something without having some retard who can't press "T" and the "lolnumbers" button. And now, you tell me that I'm aware of this, which is very true and commonly known aswell as saying why I question why people use Ether Nightmare.

Anyone popping by this thread has the right to argue, if they want, for the use of Ether Nightmare, but I'm arguing against it in the hopes of persuading people to stop using it, saving a PvE skill slot, save energy, time aswell as the risk of interruption and heavy stripping, because 15 recharge won't cut it if you screw up in a high hex removal area.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaek

i highly doubt that...
cryway usually has a tank

even if a cof goes off
it'll prolly end up on the 1s hex
and not teh 1/4s cop

A/Me Perma-SF Tank, with Cry of Pain to make bigger domage gogo?

royal mercenary · Sep 07, 2008, 12:07 PM // 12:07

[ether nightmare] can be usefull when combined with the necro skill [signet of corruption]

Chthon · Sep 07, 2008, 06:59 PM // 18:59

E.Nightmare is a terrible proc hex for CoP, in any situation. It's slow, and the effect is weak to start with, and even weaker since it requires its target to survive the full duration for full effect.

In the case of AP-AE-CoP standalone builds, Fragility at a middling spec is the best proc hex I've found. It's cheap, spammable, and it delivers extra damage when when Finish Him is applied, making sure your AP-ed target dies on schedule.

In the case of Cryway, Web of Disruption is probably the best option. All you should care about for cryway is speed, since nothing should live long enough for your hex's effect to matter, and having 6 copies makes recharge time much less important. WoD is the only non-elite 1/4 cast except for WW, which might end prematurely.

If you didn't care to pay the extra 5e for a faster cast, you could use Fragility or Mind Wrack at 0 spec.

As for the argument that bad PUGs require extra AoE hex coverage, because they're too dumb to follow targets: Just because something makes a bad PUG less bad, that does not make it good. The proper solution to bad PUGs is better teammates. If you have to use a bad PUG for something, go ahead and use skills that compensate for the PUG's weaknesses, but please don't fool yourself into thinking that this makes those skills optimal choices in general. In any group with adequate intelligence to follow targets, E.Nightmare is bad if you're using it to proc CoP (and probably bad for any other purpose as well).

Snow Bunny · Sep 09, 2008, 07:35 PM // 19:35

Because Ether Nightmare doesn't require attribute investment.

Tyla · Sep 09, 2008, 07:59 PM // 19:59

Nor does Mind Wrack or any other of the other skills?

Snow Bunny · Sep 09, 2008, 09:45 PM // 21:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Nor does Mind Wrack or any other of the other skills?

Wind Wrack is terrible. What are you talking about? Look. With Enightmare, no attribute investment whatsoever. You can cause some AoE degen, then spike hard. It's pretty simple. It puts the hex on a shitton of enemies too

Tyla · Sep 09, 2008, 09:53 PM // 21:53

If you're spiking with a shit load of armour ignoring area of effect damage, what difference will degen make? All it will do is 20 extra damage.

The idea is to lower the time taken. Mind Wrack is 1 second cast, Ether Nightmare is 3 second cast. Mind Wrack is 5 energy, Ether Nightmare is 10 energy. Mind Wrack recharges in 5 seconds, Ether Nightmare 15.

Mind Wrack is a terrible skill. There's no denial in that whatsoever. However, removing Ether Nightmare for Mind Wrack, Shrinking Armour or Fragility, or even Wastrel's Worry, the trigger hex doesn't matter at all compared to how much the actual spike of CoP matters, so you could save yourself a PvE skill slot and also save yourself a few seconds. (Every little helps)

Chuk Charcoales · Sep 09, 2008, 10:49 PM // 22:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

If you're spiking with a shit load of armour ignoring area of effect damage, what difference will degen make? All it will do is 20 extra damage...

...(Every little helps)

lolz at contradicting yourself...

Look, if some random wants to brg EN then let 'em because if they've read this thread then they know the pros and cons.

the_jos · Sep 10, 2008, 08:10 AM // 08:10

I've played mesmer a lot and Ether Nightmare has hardly ever been on my bar.
The required energy and casting time are too high for me.
If we are talking Cryway teams the only reason to take Nightmare would be if the area is full of hex removers. If not, just make sure to have two or three mesmer hexes in the team and you'll be fine.
However, this is mainly when used on Me/A or A/Me AP cryers.

However, we should look past the individual build, the total team build is what makes the difference.
The AoE effect of Nightmare combines well with FoC and Necrosis.
Anguish doesn't have priority on hexed targets, so AoE works better.
The AoE effect can be used as base for Discord spikes with the condition as trigger (I play the other way around, base conditions and trigger with hex).
I can think of several other skills that would benefit from hexed foes, more hexed foes could mean more benefit.

Given that Nightmare eats a PvE slot I would only take it when the team would benefit from it, there are better alternatives most of the time.

Tyla · Sep 10, 2008, 03:28 PM // 15:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuk Charcoales

lolz at contradicting yourself...

Less time spent and saving a PvE skillslot, or more time spent, using a PvE skill slot and getting 20 total extra damage?

Snow Bunny · Sep 10, 2008, 05:41 PM // 17:41

Tyla, you're wrong.

Ether Nightmare becomes an AoE hex. GG

p00ch1 · Sep 30, 2008, 10:32 PM // 22:32

Rank 12 kruzick...gg

http://i424.photobucket.com/albums/p...0ch1/gw006.jpg
http://i424.photobucket.com/albums/p...0ch1/gw008.jpg

Tyla · Sep 30, 2008, 10:44 PM // 22:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

Tyla, you're wrong.

Ether Nightmare becomes an AoE hex. GG

What does that have to do with anything? CoP only requires one target to be hexed. 20 damage isn't much, especially if everyone who has the availability of going /Me or Me/ will be using CoP and it simply wouldn't make a difference. This applies even moreso if said person is using Echo, Arcane Echo or both to further increase the damage.

Even then, if you wanted an AoE hex, Arcane Conundrum would be even more effective as it slows down casting, helping negate the removal of the hex and still include the requirement of Cry of Pain's damage.

AoE doesn't make CoP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by p00ch1

Rank 12 kruzick...gg

http://i424.photobucket.com/albums/p...0ch1/gw006.jpg
http://i424.photobucket.com/albums/p...0ch1/gw008.jpg

FoW isn't necesarily hard to complete. Also consider the fact you're using a Perma-SF Mesmer, which means the only way of actually dealing damage to you is through non-spell skills, traps, AoE dots and PBAoE.

That, and you could just remove Ether Nightmare and just Spirit of Failure as the trigger and still keep the spike capacity.

Snow Bunny · Sep 30, 2008, 11:35 PM // 23:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

zzzzzz.

it becomes an AoE hex; you can echo CoP and blow shit up.

I don't know why you're arguing this; you're wrong.

Tyla · Sep 30, 2008, 11:45 PM // 23:45

What about it being an AoE hex? That is all you're implying, yet Cry of Pain only requires a single hexed target to deal it's AoE damage.

All you're telling me is "You're wrong" and "It's AoE", yet its AoE has no bearing on the amount of targets CoP hits, its damage or anything.

DarkSpirit · Sep 30, 2008, 11:50 PM // 23:50

Maybe he is saying, you dont waste time and energy casting another hex before unleashing your echoed CoP, since EN has a large range.

zelgadissan · Oct 01, 2008, 01:19 AM // 01:19

I'm really failing to see how Tyla's so wrong on this. A good CoP team (this might be where I'm failing, implying they'd be good) would set a hex, then spike CoP. Anything that would be hexed in the area of Ether Nightmare would die from the CoP that has equal range. Plus, if something escaped the area, it's not like Mind Wrack has a ridiculous recharge, it's 5, with 1/3 of the casting time of EN.

Even with echoed CoP, either your target survived and you do the second spike, or everything in the AoE died and you'd have to reset the hex anyway.

I'm 100% with Tyla on this for a good team, 95% with Tyla on this for a crap team.

MisterT69 · Oct 01, 2008, 02:11 AM // 02:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

it becomes an AoE hex; you can echo CoP and blow shit up.

I don't know why you're arguing this; you're wrong.

That's its biggest draw, the AoE part. Now in places where u have 2+ CoP mesmers (FoW SC's, dungeons, w/e) only one mesmer needs that ether nightmare. One calls it out, the other 2 wait for it to apply, then all 3 make big boom with w/e CoP combo they used, [echo][arcane echo][cry of pain] or SoI. Skills like mind wrack become absolutely useless just like EN since you're spiking for 1000+dmg+interrupt.

In reality, any mes hex is fine. But it's that degen pressure that makes it fairly useful, and very popular, at least until everything explodes...

And maybe some people don't wanna take that risk of having it removed by hex removal skills. So even if it's removed on target#1, there's X amt of targets still left to make a big bang.

Koning · Oct 01, 2008, 09:19 AM // 09:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkSpirit

Maybe he is saying, you dont waste time and energy casting another hex before unleashing your echoed CoP, since EN has a large range.

CoP has the same range as EN (like said earlier) so this doesn't hold (given that your team is good enough to press 'cry of pain' to kill enemies in 1 shot). Only time I would take the AoE hex is in areas with hex removal (the deep for example), for all the other times a cheap, fast recharging and fast casting hex has my preference.