Curse

kostolomac · Apr 03, 2009, 04:19 PM // 16:19

Let me see if I got that:
You have modified the A/E vaetir keg build for a mes, and shadow form can't be kept up 24/7 so you have to use shadow of haste?

I would love a more detailed explanation on the farm if you don't mind Yuna Matsumarui.

_Nihilist_ · Apr 03, 2009, 11:21 PM // 23:21

Why use [Crystal Wave] and [Teinai's Crystals] with their high cost and single shot of damage when you could be using [Sliver Armor]? Even with [Obsidian Flesh] up, though the spells cast by the Vaettir will fail, you are still being targeted, therefore Sliver will still do damage, and once they burn through their energy, their auto-attacks will continue to churn out dmg from Sliver as well.

Freedom III · Apr 04, 2009, 02:10 AM // 02:10

One thing is that [sliver armor] doesn't do armor ignoring damage, so you're going to have to take into effect the hard mode AR of the vaettirs. Second, if you kill the mobs a few at a time, you start having energy management issues towards the end (especially shattering two hexes if you happen to be unlucky enough). Of course, you could try whatever variation you want and report back with results...unfortunately, I don't have much time to test right now.

_Nihilist_ · Apr 04, 2009, 02:33 PM // 14:33

I don't have a Mesmer to test this out atm, Freedom, or else I would. I was just making a suggestion based on past/current SF/Obby Flesh Sliver farming builds.

I can see your point in taking the CW + TC combo - 6 hits in the first minute, 4 hits in the second, repeat - making for 10 hits in 2 minutes, which @ 13 Earth (due to Elemental Lord) is 880 armor ignoring damage to each Vaettir. I was just wondering if (depending on the number of Vaettir in the run, which Yuna listed as 60, and depending on how many you can get to mob you at once) Sliver Armor might work faster since it triggers each time you get targeted by a hostile spell/attack.

Your concerns about e-mgmt once you get low on enemies does bring up a good point, since Sliver would give a chance to block (less energy from Vaettir auto-attacks), and it would also make killing the last few slow going.

Again, it was just a suggestion, if someone wants to check/test the results, I'd be interested to see them.

Freedom III · Apr 06, 2009, 04:35 AM // 04:35

Personally, I would actually prefer sliver armor just because by killing mobs at a staggered rate instead of killing then all on the last skill, you actually end up getting a better drops/mob ratio...

(there should be a thread in the farming section discussing this...unfortunately, I don't have it favorited right now, so if anybody has the link, it'd be much appreciated)

The reason I bring up the energy management problem is because, although I haven't tested it, when it gets down to the last 1-3 vaettirs, it might become suicidal to use sliver...there is, of course, the option of bringing sliver in the place of one of the Crystal skills, then taking a single-target high-damage skill in the place of the second, it might speed up the last few...[obsidian flame] comes to mind for this, especially with its low energy cost, as well as the fact that exaustion won't matter, as it would be the last couple of mobs.

Another delemma would be the amount of time it takes for [Sliver armor] to cool down...most likely long enough for some vaettirs to start regening...this can be solved by taking out [obsidian flame] and using [arcane echo] with [sliver armor]...

Anyway, I'll see if I can't test some of this out in the next couple of days. If anybody else has the equipment and skills to test this, results would be much appreciated.

_Nihilist_ · Apr 06, 2009, 09:25 PM // 21:25

[Arcane Echo] + [Sliver [email protected]] is what I would suggest, and since Sliver is not armor-ignoring damage, I'd replace [Elemental Lord] with [Ebon Battle Standard of Honor], as you'll get more damage out of EBSoH than you will from boosting your Earth Magic by 1.

The last few Vaettir could cause problems, as stated before. Needs to be tested to be sure, though.

Freedom III · Apr 07, 2009, 11:30 AM // 11:30

I'm actually about to test it, but I have some doubts about removing [elemental lord]. The first is that I don't have the EBSoH, and second, it actually not only augments the damage, but also serves defensive purposes as well. I'm about to go test it out with [arcane echo]+[sliver armor], so wish me luck.

Update 1: I tried taking out [elemental lord] for [obsidian flame] to kill off the last couple, but doing so makes [stoneflesh aura] and [obsidian flesh] extremely hard to keep up. Also, at 12 earth magic, sliver does 5 damage...I'll try to get EBSoH to speed this up a bit...

Rhiana Reborn · Apr 07, 2009, 12:20 PM // 12:20

Sliver isn't that effective.

It will kill pretty quickly when you've got them all bunched up around you, of course. Then you're down to 5-6, and it takes ages to kill on.

Sliver does 3 (that's right, 3!) dmg to a Vaettir in HM. Even with [Ebon Battle Standard of honor] that's sucky damage. They don't regen (doesn't work while attacking, just while running/standing still) and you can easily target the one sliver hits to keep them from regening.

Freedom III · Apr 07, 2009, 07:39 PM // 19:39

[sliver armor] does 5 damage, as I noted in my post above. I'm going to do some further testing now that I've got the EBSoH.

Yuna Matsumarui · Apr 09, 2009, 11:33 AM // 11:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by kostolomac

Let me see if I got that:
You have modified the A/E vaetir keg build for a mes, and shadow form can't be kept up 24/7 so you have to use shadow of haste?

I would love a more detailed explanation on the farm if you don't mind Yuna Matsumarui.

sorry for my late reply, haven't been on much lately.

the idea is that using Arcane echo, and Shadow form @ 12 shadow arts, you can keep Shadow Form up for 18+18 = 36 seconds

this is enough to lure, wait, and keg drop. though since we are not running you would have to hire a runner ( go with A/E "IaU!"s ) pay him like 3-5 k and ask him to leave, you would have to hire budger yourself btw, because otherwise budger will leave when the runner has left.

first : zone into Jaga Moraine from Bjora Marches
second: target Budger ( V, with standard keys )
third: activate Auspicious Incantation, Followed by Arcane Echo
next: get Real close to some Vaettir
next: activate Shadow Form, immediatly followed by Shadow of Haste
( if you brought a +20% ench staff, this is the time to equip it )
- start luring
there is no maximum number of Vaettir you can hold with this build, though keep in mind that the larger the group, the longer it takes to have them all in adjacent range.

when you're about done with luring, ( wait till Shadow Form starts blinking )
activate your Echo'ed Shadow Form, ( if you brought a + 20% ench weapon, it will last 21.6 seconds ) Shadow Step to Budger, or walk to him ( i'd recommend bringing Ebon Vanguard Escape, or Deaths Retreat, because if you'd get bodyblocked, and you can't reach budger, you'd have to tele out, wasting time, and possibly dieing. )

when adjacent to budger, target him, press space bar, follower by either your "Drop Bundle" button, or just f1, which would cause you to swap back to your first weapon set, and thus dropping your bundle.

now:

space-drop bundle-space-drop bundle-space-drop bundle-space-drop bundle-space-drop bundle-space-drop bundle-space-drop bundle-space-drop bundle-space-drop bundle-space-drop bundle-space-drop bundle-space-drop bundle-space-drop bundle-space-drop bundle-space-drop bundle-space-drop bundle-space-drop bundle-space-drop bundle-space-drop bundle-space-drop bundle-space-drop bundle-space-drop bundle-space-drop bundle-space-drop bundle-space-drop bundle-space-drop bundle-space-drop bundle-space-drop bundle-space-drop bundle-space-drop bundle-space-drop bundle-space-drop bundle-space-drop bundle-space-drop bundle-space-drop bundle-space-drop bundle-space-drop bundle-

you get it?

when the kegs start to go off, there will be a perfect Knock-Lock on the Vaettirs, and they will take 34 damage / keg.

depends on when you started dropping, I sometimes have time to pickup the loot, but sometimes I ShadowStep back to where I activated Shadow of Haste ( shadow of haste only lasts 34 seconds, while your Echo'ed Shadow Forms last a total of 18+18 = 36 ( 35, you might activate it to soon ) or 18+21.6 = 39.6 seconds ( or a bit less, you might have activated it to soon )

if you were shadow stepped out before they died, no problem at all. if you kept dropping kegs until you shadow of haste ran out they would still die.

now you wait till your skills are recharged, and look for the next group, and repeat.

works good enough for me, though it's not like a mesmer build, since it's only Arcane Echo you're really using.

Auspicious Incantation can be dropped, though I wouldn't recommend it, since i like full energy bars, just in case.

full runs can be done under 5 minutes, my personal record is 2 minutes, and my biggest aggro was 36 Vaettirs, this, however I wouldn't recommend, because it's risky.

if you are doing this on a survivor, you will get irritated by Shadow of Haste, because you will have to walk all the way back to your loot, but trust me, it will save your butt at least once.

~ Yuna.

( can make a vid if you want, though last time I tried to upload it on my youtube account, it didn't work :S )

riktw · Apr 09, 2009, 12:05 PM // 12:05

[sliver amor] deals 5 damage, it takes a long time to kill everything.
even with ebon battle thingy it stil goes slow.
and about the drops, gold wapons are not affected by that quick kill thingy, and all those blue and white weapons suck ass.
30g each FTL

kostolomac · Apr 09, 2009, 01:32 PM // 13:32

Thank you very much for explaining Yuna.

riktw · Apr 09, 2009, 02:04 PM // 14:04

indeed nice explanation yuna.
tried it, works, but i got a sin for that

but i am to lazy to run that every 20 min so the mesmer build is fun to.
and after 2 hours of keg farming something else is nice to.