Curse

draxynnic · May 05, 2009, 02:59 AM // 02:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

A single, PvE only nuke (that can be run better by other professions) and a reactive hex does not make for a good class.

I contest that it can be run better by other professions. Other professions can't combine it with Assassin's Promise.

(Okay, an A/Me can, but I think the Me/A still wins on that matchup.)

Xenomortis · May 05, 2009, 12:55 PM // 12:55

A mesmer would need to bring energy crutches.
Still doesn't change my real point.

haggus71 · May 05, 2009, 01:56 PM // 13:56

Instead of trying to make a mesmer something else, try learning how to play a mesmer.

upier · May 05, 2009, 09:09 PM // 21:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by haggus71

Instead of trying to make a mesmer something else, try learning how to play a mesmer.

That's the reason why we got CoP.
Playing the mesmer the way it's meant to be played meant that the guy was the perfect secondary.

faraaz · May 06, 2009, 04:51 AM // 04:51

idk...stuff like [Arcane Conundrum], [Ineptitude]+[Epidemic], [Visions of Regret] & interrupts are pretty strong on their own, without CoP spam. That's not to say ofc, that CoP makes mesmers godly

Snow Bunny · May 06, 2009, 04:44 PM // 16:44

[visions of regret] + [cry of pain] = lolguild wars.

That's how mesmers are. Add in some sort of character that is invincible, something like an assassin that uses [shadow form], and g'hey pve!

Kraviec · May 07, 2009, 06:04 PM // 18:04

Why [skill]Cry of Pain[/skill] spam?
Because PUG ppl are too limited to understand what, for instance, [skill]Backfire[/skill] does.

@topic
Most of mesmer's elites are capable of being a base of an effective build.

Xenomortis · May 07, 2009, 08:00 PM // 20:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kraviec

PUG ppl are too limited to understand what, for instance, [skill]Backfire[/skill] does.

An expensive reactive hex with a short duration, long recharge, long cast time and very conditional damage?

Nodakim · May 07, 2009, 09:39 PM // 21:39

You remmember the mesmer primary attribute?The one called fast casting?
The damage isnt very conditional,as spellcaster proffesions are 50 % of the game,and other proffesion also use spells.
150 dmg per spell for 10 second is a lot of "Oh god i died".If the hexed foe uses spells he is pretty much dead b/c of backfire,and if he doesnt use them then the mesmer finishes him with his spells.

Xenomortis · May 07, 2009, 10:10 PM // 22:10

For PvE, it's useless. It can only be used on a single target, once a fight. It has a 20 second recharge and it doesn't synergise with a lot of your other caster hate. You want to stop the target casting, not punish him for doing so.
It's the old reactive argument again, except that Backfire is truly terrible for PvE.

Cuilan · May 08, 2009, 12:33 AM // 00:33

My experience with Backfire and similar is that they're not so good with ranger/melee or low lvl areas, but that's what I like about mesmers. I generally look into what I'm going into instead of always relying on Echo + Cry of Pain without thought.

I think Backfire does wonders in the right skill set and areas, but that doesn't mean it's limited.

Hanging Man · May 08, 2009, 12:39 AM // 00:39

mesmers are by far my favorite class

with the addition of [cry of pain] they have become a staple in DoA and other high end elite areas. A spammable armor ignoring interrupting spell kills shit fassstt

but mesmers i think really shine in pvp. they can easily shut down any caster class and melees

Mesmers are in my mind the most versatile class out there

Bill Clinton · May 08, 2009, 11:49 AM // 11:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

For PvE, it's useless. It can only be used on a single target, once a fight. It has a 20 second recharge and it doesn't synergise with a lot of your other caster hate. You want to stop the target casting, not punish him for doing so.
It's the old reactive argument again, except that Backfire is truly terrible for PvE.

You're obviously someone who either doesnt play mesmer or doesnt understand what you're doing as one.

Its not single target. Many mesmer skills reduce its recharge. [Mantra of recovery] [arcane echo] [echo]. You can even branch out into other proffesions if you like. The ever popular [assassins promise], or [glyph of renewal] even [quickening zephyr] if you are scared to use and elite. Learn to be creative... it isnt hard.

And yes, it does syngergise with caster hate (not that thats the default and only thing mesmers can do). By punishing enemys from using spells under [backfire] they stop using them. If you took a few seconds to stop looking at red bars in PVE you would have noticed that that monk boss you just threw [backfire] on self-canceled his [word of healing] and is now standing around doing nothing for himself or his party.

upier · May 08, 2009, 12:26 PM // 12:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Clinton

You're obviously someone who either doesnt play mesmer or doesnt understand what you're doing as one.

Guys, lets just move past this post.
Just let him enjoy PvE.

Smarty · May 08, 2009, 01:44 PM // 13:44

Changed my mind. I promised myself I was going to stay out of stupid arguments on guru from now on. Nothing to see here, move along.

Snow Bunny · May 08, 2009, 02:28 PM // 14:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Clinton

you would have noticed that that monk boss you just threw [backfire] on self-canceled his [word of healing] and is now standing around doing nothing for himself or his party.

No it keeps casting.

Xenomortis · May 08, 2009, 02:31 PM // 14:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

No it keeps casting.

Actually, I think Backfire is unique in that the AI won't finish casting the spell if the damage would be lethal.

That doesn't change the fact it's a near useless reactive hex though.

M'Aiq The Liar · May 08, 2009, 05:44 PM // 17:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Actually, I think Backfire is unique in that the AI won't finish casting the spell if the damage would be lethal.

That doesn't change the fact it's a near useless reactive hex though.

No, that's Empathy you're thinking of. They'll stop casting if Backfire would cause them to kill themselves. I think they tweaked the AI to be that way a year or two ago, actually.

Also, yeah, Backfire may be a single target spell. But you won't find many effective Mesmer AoE spells, and there's a pretty good chance that you'll be dropping it on their monk first thing in the battle. AI monks typically don't have hex removal, so it makes pressuring them that much easier. Without a solid team around you to make up for the damage and pressure loss, I can't see how you can do without Backfire in a traditional mesmer's PvE bar.

Xenomortis · May 08, 2009, 06:09 PM // 18:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by M'Aiq The Liar

No, that's Empathy you're thinking of. They'll stop casting if Backfire would cause them to kill themselves. I think they tweaked the AI to be that way a year or two ago, actually.

Yes, that's pretty much what I said.

Quote:

Originally Posted by M'Aiq The Liar

AI monks typically don't have hex removal, so it makes pressuring them that much easier. Without a solid team around you to make up for the damage and pressure loss, I can't see how you can do without Backfire in a traditional mesmer's PvE bar.

I do not want to be pressuring, I want to be killing outright. There are very few enemy monks that will stop me from doing that.

Cuilan · May 08, 2009, 07:03 PM // 19:03

I would quote you, M'Aiq, but the quote feature doesn't work for me. Spiritual Pain (serious AoE) says hi. Like said, mesmers are suppose to know what they're going against and because of that single target spells aren't useless.