Curse

Freedom III · Apr 15, 2009, 12:22 PM // 12:22

I definitely agree with the mesmer being used to spam pve skills, but for me, in most cases, I tend to have a fully mesmer bar, and without CoP.

Personally, I tend to play not as a damage mesmer (urgoz is a different case), but as more of a cussion for my part, through the disruption of enemy actions in various ways...[psychic instability] is one that I find useful when I have a large target (zu hanuku, lich king, etc) that needs concentrated interruption.

[arcane conundrum] can also relieve pressure, as well as help you interrupt normally quick-casting spells. Of course, there's another method for disabling annoying spell-spammers in [power leech]...works especially well on monks (i.e. spam-happy folk)

Of course, [signet of midnight] is a life-saver for any single large physical target.

Although most people think CoP when they think of mesmers in pve, there's actually quite a large number of things that mesmers can do (i.e. they don't have to just be damage-dealers >.>)...

draxynnic · Apr 15, 2009, 11:53 PM // 23:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freedom III

Although most people think CoP when they think of mesmers in pve, there's actually quite a large number of things that mesmers can do (i.e. they don't have to just be damage-dealers >.>)...

But there's no point in disruption when the target should already be dead!

(I don't fully agree with this, but in my experience, a lot of posters here do - and to be fair to them, power creep and broken PvE skills has increased damage outputs to the point where this thinking works a lot better than it really should.)

faraaz · Apr 19, 2009, 12:38 PM // 12:38

discord spam = ~400 to 500 armor ignoring damage a second. Not much can stand up to that. So yes, killing before foes can do anything is pretty much the current (for lack of a better term), PvE Meta. :P

Xenomortis · Apr 19, 2009, 01:14 PM // 13:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by faraaz

discord spam = ~400 to 500 armor ignoring damage a second.

That's one hell of an over estimate.
Perhaps three people spamming it on recharge... mabye 200-300. Mabye.

Edit:
Actually, it's more like 100 DPS on a single target, with three people spamming the skill. That makes much more sense.

faraaz · Apr 19, 2009, 02:57 PM // 14:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

That's one hell of an over estimate.
Perhaps three people spamming it on recharge... mabye 200-300. Mabye.

Edit:
Actually, it's more like 100 DPS on a single target, with three people spamming the skill. That makes much more sense.

6 Discord Heros mate.

Not to mention armor ignoring damage from YMLAD & Finish Him (that alone is 160 for me)

Xenomortis · Apr 19, 2009, 03:12 PM // 15:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by faraaz

6 Discord Heros mate.

Not to mention armor ignoring damage from YMLAD & Finish Him (that alone is 160 for me)

Alright, so 200 DPS from the 6 heroes (actually, that looks fairly abysmal). Add onto that the 160 damage (+ Deep Wound) you'll do to the target in that time. You're still a long way off your initial claim.
Fair enough, a single volley of Discord from 6 people is likely to kill the target, but that doesn't make it 600 DPS.

faraaz · Apr 19, 2009, 04:52 PM // 16:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Alright, so 200 DPS from the 6 heroes (actually, that looks fairly abysmal). Add onto that the 160 damage (+ Deep Wound) you'll do to the target in that time. You're still a long way off your initial claim.
Fair enough, a single volley of Discord from 6 people is likely to kill the target, but that doesn't make it 600 DPS.

Did you read my post? I said 400 to 500. Based on your conservative estimate you are already at 360. Not factoring in stuff like Putrid Bile, Death Nova etc which are valid damage sources from Discord Heros.

Xenomortis · Apr 19, 2009, 05:57 PM // 17:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by faraaz

Did you read my post? I said 400 to 500. Based on your conservative estimate you are already at 360.

I did read your post, hence, I'm being quite specific.
You're not dealing the damage from YMLAD and FH every second. You deal it once to the target.
You claimed that discord spamming would lead to 400-500 DPS, which is basically impossible.

Of course a target will drop fairly rapidly, because 6 x 100ish + 100-160ish + Deep Wound = enough to kill most things, but sustained fire over a few seconds will yield much less powerful results.

My point is more that, Discord isn't favoured for high DPS, it's favoured for its ability to deliver a sudden spike. The two are not quite the same.

Schnellburg · Apr 19, 2009, 06:06 PM // 18:06

Discord is armor ignoring, and most ppl spec 14-16 into death magic, which easily is 100 damage per discord. 6 Discord heros=500-600 damage per spike.

aerosigma · Apr 23, 2009, 04:26 PM // 16:26

Sure a Mesmer can spam Cry of Pain, but if you want to just be a skill spammer, maybe mesmer's not the best choice. Besides skill spamming is repetative and BORING!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squeak2

How are the mesmers in PVE these days? Are they good at killing

Not really, unless you go for a chained Cryer build.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squeak2

and stuff?

Heck yes! Mesmer's really shine in support roles. I currently run an intterupt build and can very effectivly shut down casters, Cry of Frustration is paticularly good, there aren't many AoE interupts.
I've run energy denial builds, degeneration builds, and domination builds with skills like Backfire, Empathy, Mistrust, Overload and Wastrel's Demise.
The Mesmer is very flexible and IMHO that makes them very fun to play and to continue playing. But really the mesmer dosen't do a lot of killing, they're the best at making sure their enemies don't do a lot of killing, and their allies do.

haggus71 · Apr 28, 2009, 02:00 AM // 02:00

If you want to just sit and spam skills, they have Imbagons and Godmode Wars. If you want to go 1234565656565656565656, be a sin. If you want to actually THINK about your gameplay, be a mesmer. You can do the AP/Cryway thing, or you can do any of a plethora of options.

Plus, there's nothing like watching Gwen with a Domination build making AI curse a blue streak. She makes the PvE world easier than any COP.

Bill Clinton · Apr 29, 2009, 03:32 PM // 15:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Alright, so 200 DPS from the 6 heroes (actually, that looks fairly abysmal). Add onto that the 160 damage (+ Deep Wound) you'll do to the target in that time. You're still a long way off your initial claim.
Fair enough, a single volley of Discord from 6 people is likely to kill the target, but that doesn't make it 600 DPS.

I agree, discord is not as good as many people are deluded into thinking.

Even with skills like death nova, people often overlook the casting times. For each death nova you're spending 2 and 1/4 seconds with absaloutly no damage output... the DPS really totals out to way less than you know.

In some ways its heartening, because it makes you realise that to be ultra super awesome at PvE you dont need as much damage as its commonly assumed...
Which hopefully encourages people to be more creative with their teams.

Anyway, on topic. Something I love to do while I play mesmer is run [Glyph of renewal] with skills like [Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support] and even [Ebon Vanguard Sniper Support] if i'm feeling lucky. Obviously [cry of pain] works nicely with it, theres a whole bunch of options. Energy is no object when using [glyph of renewal] and [auspicious incantation].
Another fun and effective thing to do is bring [arcane mimicry] when you have an [Unyielding Aura] monk. This, with [glyph of renewal] makes for some pretty epic ressurection in those situations where an elemntalist boss comes out of nowhere and nukes three of you dead...

Just a few little things I sometimes play with.

Zodiac Meteor · May 02, 2009, 07:33 AM // 07:33

Mesmers are growing in guild wars, thanks to [cry of pain] and [visions of regret].

Whenever I see a mesmer with [cry of pain], [arcane echo], [ebon vanguard assassin support] and [ray of judgment]. I look up and say, thank you lord.

upier · May 02, 2009, 09:05 AM // 09:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zodiac Meteor

Whenever I see a mesmer with [cry of pain], [arcane echo], [ebon vanguard assassin support] and [ray of judgment]. I look up and say, thank you lord.

There is nothing here that a primary monk couldn't do better.
Especially by adding something in the lines of [smiter's boon][castigation signet] [reversal of damage][smite hex][smite condition]. Plus having access to runed' up [aegis].

It seriously doesn't make sense to be selling the things that other classes do better as the as the "OMG!11 WTF!11! PWN!!1!"-thing that mesmers can do.

haggus71 · May 02, 2009, 11:30 AM // 11:30

Whenever I see [skill]cry of pain[/skill], [skill]arcane echo[/skill], [skill]ebon vanguard assassin support[/skill] and [skill]ray of judgment[/skill], I want to ask the moron why the hell he or she is playing a mesmer. I get more use out of Gwen with a basic Domination interrupt build than that crap on someone.

The whole point of being a mesmer is the ability to time skills and use a person or AI's abilities and tendencies against them. You dominate over them. You are an illusionist. You aren't a "damage dealer." It's a thinking person's profession, the one profession that makes Guild Wars different from others. If you want to run builds like that, you might as well be an imbagon or an ele. 1-2-3-4-boredom FTL.

draxynnic · May 02, 2009, 11:53 AM // 11:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

There is nothing here that a primary monk couldn't do better.
Especially by adding something in the lines of [smiter's boon][castigation signet] [reversal of damage][smite hex][smite condition]. Plus having access to runed' up [aegis].

It seriously doesn't make sense to be selling the things that other classes do better as the as the "OMG!11 WTF!11! PWN!!1!"-thing that mesmers can do.

Have you been spying on my Monk?

(Although I haven't been using the Aegis, instead pumping up Smiting Prayers and bringing another damaging skill like Spear of Light or Banish instead.)

Regarding the Mesmer... I'll admit to being tempted with RoJ, but so far I've been more inclined to just flood the battlefield with Assassins via Assassin's Promise or Glyph of Renewal. There's nothing wrong with putting RoJ on a Mesmer, but it's not the strongest option, and a Monk primary can make better use of the rest of the line - and do more damage with runes - if you really do want RoJ.

Tyla · May 02, 2009, 12:16 PM // 12:16

Mesmers can kill effectively. Any profession can. With all of these new skills from the newer games and the introduction of PvE skills, it's generally impossible to not have a decent damage output unless you're deliberately f*cking up your skill bar.

upier · May 03, 2009, 09:08 AM // 09:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by haggus71

The whole point of being a mesmer is the ability to time skills and use a person or AI's abilities and tendencies against them. You dominate over them. You are an illusionist. You aren't a "damage dealer." It's a thinking person's profession, the one profession that makes Guild Wars different from others. If you want to run builds like that, you might as well be an imbagon or an ele. 1-2-3-4-boredom FTL.

If you play NM.
Half activation times just made running something that requires any sort of timing (unless it's "deep wound if target is below 50%") a waste.
That's why I still feel that the mesmers are the class that HM did the most damage to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

Have you been spying on my Monk?

I got it from your momma!

haggus71 · May 03, 2009, 03:29 PM // 15:29

E-surge tiggers in NF HM? easily interrupted. Shockwave/Churning Earth Wardens in Echovald? interrupted. Imba'd RoJ Afflicted Monks in Undercity? easily interrupted. Yes, the half cast does let them get off some skills quicker than D-Shot, but most of the BIG skills that can cause a party wipe you can still get a CoF, P-Block, or other interrupts, off on, especially if you invest some points in FC, which is what any good mesmer does.

For anything else...ann-tiii-ci-pationnnn.... C'mon! It's PvE! It's not like, if you play HM, that you don't know the EXACT builds you are facing, and what order the AI casts. Besides, in PvE, chances are, if you are doing HM, you have your Necro crew there, ready to run Sabway or Discordway to sweep and clear, so you just need to minimize the big stuff while they run you through.

If you can't do that, well, maybe a mesmer isn't for you. It's a unique profession. Necros are masochists. Mesmers are sadists XD. Besides, I thought HM was supposed to be more challenging, anyway?

Worse comes to worse, you can always go PvP to rebuild your confidence. Mesmers always kill there.

Xenomortis · May 04, 2009, 08:57 AM // 08:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zodiac Meteor

Mesmers are growing in guild wars, thanks to [cry of pain] and [visions of regret].

A single, PvE only nuke (that can be run better by other professions) and a reactive hex does not make for a good class.