Curse

Moonstruck Muse · May 18, 2009, 03:58 AM // 03:58

Hello!

I hope this hasn't been done before. Either way I'm sure it's nothing too shocking but I thought I'd share my findings anyway.

So every since I saw the... I believe it was a buff for Extend Conditions, or perhaps it was it being added in not long ago... Regardless, when it came to my attention, I always wondered; is it better for a mesmer primary or the primary that inflicts said conditions to be used?

That being said, I hoped that my math would indeed, help some others with this. The main skills I looked at was a mesmer and ranger combo, with a pet, but I did some other skills and classes as well.

So, as far as I can tell; if you have skills that have a long condition time, it is far better to be the primary for them, because the gap between attribute levels is much higher, but if it is a short condition, then you want a mesmer primary.

Basically, ten seconds is the plateau point, where is it about even from what I can tell. Anything under is longer as a mesmer primary, anything over is longer as whatever your other class' primary is.

Please consider that this is not taking into account damage from the weapon/pet, but simply how to get the longest condition length using this elite. I also haven't considered things like cons (yet).

Here's the data (My math may be wrong, please correct it if so!):

Skill (Condition):
Attributes
Skill condition length, percentage from Extend Conditions
Total Time
Same for second row

Feral Lunge (Bleeding):

16 beast mastery, 12 inspiration magic
26 seconds, 81%
47.06 seconds
12 beast mastery, 16 inspiration magic
21 seconds, 106%

Biestial Mauling (Dazed):
16 BM, 12 IM
10,81%
18.1
12 BM, 16 Inspiration
9, 106%
18.54

Maiming Strike (Crippled):
16 BM, 12 IM
16, 81%
28.96
12 BM, 16 IM
13, 106%
26.78

Poisonous Bite:
16 BM, 12 IM
21, 81%
38.01
12 BM, 16 IM
17, 106%
35.02

Apply Poison (Poison) & Barbed Arrows (Bleeding):
16 Wilderness Survival, 12 Inspiration Magic
16, 81%
28.96
12 Wilderness Survival, 16 IM
13, 106%
26.78

Barbed Trap (Crippled & Bleeding):
16 WS, 12 IM
26, 81%
47.06
12 WS, 16 IM
21, 106%
43.26

Brambles (Bleeding if KD):
16 WS, 12 IM
21, 81%
38.01
12 WS, 16 IM
17, 106%
35.02

Dust Trap (Blindness):
16 WS, 12 IM
8, 81%
14.48
12 WS, 16 IM
7, 106%
16.48

Flame Trap, Immolate, Incendiary Bonds (Burning):
16 WS, 12 IM
3, 81%
5.43
12 WS, 16 IM
3, 106%
6.18

Bed of Coals (Burning if KD):
16 WS, 12 IM
7, 81%
12.67
12 WS, 16 IM
6, 106%
12.36

Burning Speed:
16 WS, 12 IM
9, 81%
16.29
12 WS, 16 IM
8, 106%
16.48

Icy The Mage · May 18, 2009, 05:05 AM // 05:05

You forgot about condition-lengthening weapon modifications, also, what exactly are you trying to accomplish? Not quite sure I understand...

zwei2stein · May 18, 2009, 05:27 AM // 05:27

It is not good at any class. Ever.

Why? Because recharge versus duration is always in favor of spamming condition instead of trying to increase duration. Conditions are cheap and spammable. Extend also adds one second "cast time" to your condition causing skill.

Anyhow, you forgot maximum duration if extended condition is 30 seconds, and superior runes are no-no if you want do more than theorycraft.

Also, you shoud consider skills like [Epidemic], as speading cinditions to several targets can be considered "lenghtening too".

For example, poisonous [email protected] being spread to two additional targets means you get 2x extra 17 secconds of effect overall. Not too shabby for zero attribute investment.

Moonstruck Muse · May 18, 2009, 05:34 AM // 05:34

Ah I see there were many factors I forgot.

IcyFiftyFive:
What I was trying to do: was simply to see, if you wanted to condition spread to a mob, using said elite, would it be better for a primary or secondary mesmer to do so.

Also, on the weapon modifier: I was thinking more in terms of spreading multiple conditions. So the weapon modifier would only be good for one of those.

Eg mesmer and ele could spread burning and fragility, mesmer and ranger could go burning, fragility, poison, cripple, blind, etc. While the modifier would be great for one, it wouldn't affect all.

Zwei2stein:

I'm a little lost as to what you mean... My apologies. It's just that if you think Epidemic is worthwhile, why not Extend Conditions?

I'm also a bit lost as to how superior runes for testing are a no no. I get how, generally, they are. But since I merely wanted to see which was better; primary or secondary mesmer to have conditions last a long time, I though the way to go about it would be a 16/12 & 12/16 spread, because both classes could achieve a 12/12 spread and therefore would have the same result.

What do you mean by I forgot maximum duration? It says on wiki maximum duration is 12 hours (wow), so I'm sorry; I don't understand what you mean. Would you please be so kind as to clarify?

Thank you both for your feedback. Sorry about this test had a lot of fallacies in it.

Improvavel · May 18, 2009, 05:45 AM // 05:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

Why? Because recharge versus duration is always in favor of spamming condition instead of trying to increase duration. Conditions are cheap and spammable. Extend also adds one second "cast time" to your condition causing skill.

Except for Daze.

Basically, OP, that is the condition you really want to extend and take advantage of someone with a scythe beating on a mob of heavy nasty casters.

This is more useful if your party is heavy on physicals characters going against hexers in places like DoA.

zwei2stein · May 18, 2009, 05:46 AM // 05:46

Elite Spell. Spread all conditions from target foe to foes near your target. The durations of those conditions are increased by 5...81...100% (maximum 30 seconds).

Moonstruck Muse · May 18, 2009, 05:50 AM // 05:50

Oh boy did I miss a lot of things. Thanks. But that just means that for most of the skills where the rangers time would be longer with Extend Conditions, they and the mesmers are the same, with a few exceptions.

Yeah, it seemed this skill was good for dazed and burning, because they are so short. Well that was my thoughts anyway.

Also, extend conditions is a 3/4th cast time, so with Fast Casting that's quite fast, not one second. Unless I misunderstood again! If so I'm sorry!

Thanks again.

zwei2stein · May 18, 2009, 06:25 AM // 06:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonstruck Muse

Oh boy did I miss a lot of things. Thanks. But that just means that for most of the skills where the rangers time would be longer with Extend Conditions, they and the mesmers are the same, with a few exceptions.

Yeah, it seemed this skill was good for dazed and burning, because they are so short. Well that was my thoughts anyway.

Also, extend conditions is a 3/4th cast time, so with Fast Casting that's quite fast, not one second. Unless I misunderstood again! If so I'm sorry!

Thanks again.

(remember that skills capped at 30 seconds mean you can drop attribute levels, amount of saved att points can still be interesting.)

There is aftercast of 3/4 secconds after most of skills where caracter can not act, which effectively adds to time spent using skills.

Generally, burning is very easy to reapply en masse if you want to (pulsing fire damage source + mark of rogdort mean that you can get away with very low duration).

Daze is a bit more expensive, but elite skills causing it do fine job of enabling 24/7 duration.

Painbringer · May 18, 2009, 03:26 PM // 15:26

[extend conditions] Not a great skill but it does work in certain situations. In fact I may be the only one running a Mesmer / Paragon in Fort Aspenwood that actually uses a spear for an attack weapon. It works nicely in balled up areas like door ways and the center area of NPC’s. I can apply bleeding, burning, deep wound, and weakness over and over and over. At the same time using Fallback and/or other running skills for my team and turtles. But in open spaces one gets a little less effective but I seem to hold my own.

PVE I have run it and it is mediocre not great and not horrible just not as good as other builds.

Another option I found fun is [Glyph of immolation] used as a primer and then use extend as an attack it triggers the burn first so it spreads right away. Gimmicky but worth a few glad points in RA

Moonstruck Muse · May 18, 2009, 05:04 PM // 17:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Painbringer

[extend conditions] Not a great skill but it does work in certain situations. In fact I may be the only one running a Mesmer / Paragon in Fort Aspenwood that actually uses a spear for an attack weapon. It works nicely in balled up areas like door ways and the center area of NPC’s. I can apply bleeding, burning, deep wound, and weakness over and over and over. At the same time using Fallback and/or other running skills for my team and turtles. But in open spaces one gets a little less effective but I seem to hold my own.

PVE I have run it and it is mediocre not great and not horrible just not as good as other builds.

Another option I found fun is [Glyph of immolation] used as a primer and then use extend as an attack it triggers the burn first so it spreads right away. Gimmicky but worth a few glad points in RA

That's actually a really fun idea. Basically, all I wanted to find out was for spreading multiple conditions, which is better as a primary. Spreading burning for double the time sounds very fun.

Yeah, I mean it's not the best elite, but, well, I like to try to find uses for various odd ones.

Thanks for the feedback! I'm so glad I'm not the only one who tried this.

Xenomortis · May 18, 2009, 09:34 PM // 21:34

I'd possibly be tempted to run [Fevered Dreams] over [Extend Conditions]. I know that means it isn't an [Extend Conditions] build, but the conditions can be spread over a much larger area if you don't mind a tiny bit of downtime (if you need it).

FD could provide large AoE crippled, deep wound, blind and strong bursts of dazed when combined with skills such as [You Move Like a Dwarf], [Finish Him] and skills from other players such as [Blinding Flash].

Extend Conditions provides something similar though, just a smaller AoE and it doesn't provide the dazed condition and hence an AoE interrupt.

I think you were asking if it would be best run on a mesmer primary or secondary. Well... that depends on the source of your conditions. I'd be tempted to go N/Me for the insane energy management that is Soul Reaping. Also, the curses line can provide another source of useful conditions (weakness would be nice) and would further your utility abilities.