Curse

cr00mz · May 23, 2009, 02:17 PM // 14:17

hey hey, i havent played Guild Wars in months, because i got tired of the game, but its such a great game that i want to continue playing, i have a elementalist that i have taken through factions and prophecies, but i'm getting bored of him so i though about mesmer. Mesmer seems to be the perfect PvP class like the sticky mentioned, about how monsters dont panic as humans etc.
but about pve I have never ever taken a mesmer hero or henchman maybe i'm stupid i dont know but i've never been in a situation where i'd say to myself "damn i wish i had a mesmer right about now".

Still, i've only played normal mode and never hard mode maybe that's where they shine?
am i better of going for a necro instead? i know they have somewhat similar playstyle with the debuffs cruses/degens etc.

ZodiacFear · May 23, 2009, 02:35 PM // 14:35

Mesmers aren't very useful for general PvE. However, they shine in Elite Areas like DoA and The Deep. Fast Casting provides cleaner spikes and in cryway teams, mesmers have an open secondary.

Necros are more useful for general PvE (missions, vanquishing etc) since Soul Reaping gives them an endless energy pool due to enemies constantly dying. In elite areas, you usually spike a mob; then you have to wait for the next mob to be balled up before the next spike which makes the energy gain from SR redundant.

So, basically: If you wanna do elite areas, go for a mesmer. If you just wanna play general PvE, make a necro.

Captain Bulldozer · May 23, 2009, 03:18 PM // 15:18

While some people will say Mesmers suck in PvE... I wouldn't listen. The fact is that mesmers excell at thins like shutdown and good, armor ignoring single target damage. A lot of people prefer necros in PvE because have a lot of AoE through the curses line, which is somewhat overpowered. Still, mesmers can be extremely effective in PvE. I have done a lot of vanquishing and HM in general on both my mesmer and my necro and have found that the mesmer definitely performs better in certain situations. Mesmers are absolutely great for removing big targets with spells like Backfire and Empathy. While necros enjoy SS, which can easily outdamage single target spells, with a mesmer specking into either domination or illusion you can quickly dispatch the monks, eles and usually necros while dishing out significant hate to melee foes.

In addition, mesmers are awesome at PvP, whereas necors .... not so much. So why not go for both? Good hunting!

Ratson Itamar · May 23, 2009, 03:32 PM // 15:32

Not true, HM is the necro's comfort zone. That's where necros shine. Other professions are in obvious disadvantage in HM compared to NM because of the increased armor level and speed of casting and attacking. For necros, AL doesn't matter in most scenarios and the increase in attacking and casting speed is in fact in the necros advantage! Some of the mesmer skills are not effected by AL too, but they suck anyway (long recharge keeping you from doing the same for the next target or poor damage ouput).

Beyond that, mesmers have a very bad reputation in PvE, you will need a bucket load of luck to get in a group. Just take a look at PvXwiki.com. Necros have twice as much "great" voted builds than mesmers. To even worsen the situation, ALL of the mesmers' builds use the same damn skill as their main source of damage! While necros have ton of variety. Necros are also able to do other roles than just debuffing and doing damage, they're also capable to support the physicals in their group (the physicals are the main source of damage in the majority of GW).

About Elite Areas, necros are always in demand. Either it be a biper for cryway/rojway and the such, a SS nuker for Speed Clears or just for abusing SR's amazing energy management. Again, mesmers are only wanted for the same purpose of spamming the same skill (Cry of Pain).

And let's not start about farming options (number of builds AND the number of locations that they're able to farm)...

Mesmers are supposed to be made with PvP in mind. Then and only then, if you want to experience PvE with your beloved mes you should go there. Not the other way around. Anyone who tells you otherwise is biased as hell.

Magic Wut Huh Asdf · May 23, 2009, 03:47 PM // 15:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ratson Itamar

Other professions are in obvious disadvantage in HM compared to NM because of the increased armor level and speed of casting and attacking. For necros, AL doesn't matter in most scenarios and the increase in attacking and casting speed is in fact in the necros advantage!

And by no way could enemies spamming skills and attacking faster could that make empathy and backfire more effective.

I personally play a mesmer almost exclusively now in PvE - simply because of fast casting. I'm impatient and want to do stuff faster. Rather than sitting and watching your character painfully grind out a two second cast, you could do it in 1.2 on a mesmer.

That, and they're the prettiest.

poasiods · May 23, 2009, 03:58 PM // 15:58

I don't know about you, but I always take a CoP mesmer for HM PuG if I see one.

Lishy · May 23, 2009, 04:07 PM // 16:07

[Assassin's Promise]
[Cry of Pain]
[Vision's of Regret]
[Signet of Illusions]
[Clumsiness]
[Wandering Eye]
[Illusionary Weaponry](It may be lulz, but fun if used correct)
[Tryptophan Signet]
[echo]
[arcane echo]
[Meteor Shower]
[empathy]
[fragility]
[channeling]
[Lyssa's aura]
[Mantra of Recovery]
Say hello to PvE "Rampage" mode! ~

upier · May 23, 2009, 04:15 PM // 16:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magic Wut Huh Asdf

That, and they're the prettiest.

You go girl!

On-topic:
GW PvE is designed in such fashion that players that fail on occasion (or most of the time if they have someone or something to piggyback on) still win.
So, it doesn't really matter that the mesmer's playground is PvP.
The guy will work.

And so will the necro.

So, might I suggest trying out both guys and see who you are more comfortable with.

Ratson Itamar · May 23, 2009, 04:23 PM // 16:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magic Wut Huh Asdf

And by no way could enemies spamming skills and attacking faster could that make empathy and backfire more effective.

I personally play a mesmer almost exclusively now in PvE - simply because of fast casting. I'm impatient and want to do stuff faster. Rather than sitting and watching your character painfully grind out a two second cast, you could do it in 1.2 on a mesmer.

That, and they're the prettiest.

If you had kept reading my post you would have seen what I wrote about those kind of skills. Maybe I wasn't specific enough for you. Fanboys of any kind are always blinded to what others say so I will restate my statement and make it even clearer, so not only you, but other fanboys will understand me also.

Backfire has a long recharge and is single targeted, so does Empathy (the non-aoe part ofc). it's pathetic in PvE. Especially when the OP compared msesers to necros. Now, does your fanboy syndrome has you under any other illusion you would like sharing with us? Because it will be my pleasure to shatter another one.]

About being the prettiest, I know you weren't serious there, but I honestly think that necros has the most beautiful armor in the game (Elite Luxon dyed black = EPIC).

Cuilan · May 23, 2009, 06:31 PM // 18:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZodiacFear

Mesmers aren't very useful for general PvE.

I'm sorry, but no. Memsers are a very solid class in PvE that ignores armor, so in some ways is better than an elementalist. Fast casting keeps them able to move around without having to worry about canceling their skills.

Reactive skills such as Backfire and Visions of Regret are much better in hard mode. People like to think that things always turn out right, but those kinds of hexes have worked for me when I decided to use them.

upier · May 23, 2009, 07:39 PM // 19:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

I'm sorry, but no. Mesmers are a very solid class in PvE that ignores armor, so in some ways is better than an elementalist. Fast casting keeps them able to move around without having to worry about canceling their skills.

Reactive skills such as Backfire and Visions of Regret are much better in hard mode. People like to think that things always turn out right, but those kinds of hexes have worked for me when I decided to use them.

The PvP mesmer - meaning the mesmer without access to overpowered PvE crap - isn't good in PvE.
PvE skills are good in PvE.

Lishy · May 23, 2009, 07:46 PM // 19:46

Upier, does assassin's promise clumsiness count as pve skills? :<

Xenomortis · May 23, 2009, 07:46 PM // 19:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magic Wut Huh Asdf

And by no way could enemies spamming skills and attacking faster could that make empathy and backfire more effective.

But that's ok, because all those reactive hexes are shit.

I will say Necromancer here. Mesmers in PvE often feel ineffective to me and Cry of Pain is more or less their only saving grace.

Bill Clinton · May 23, 2009, 08:21 PM // 20:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ratson Itamar

If you had kept reading my post you would have seen what I wrote about those kind of skills. Maybe I wasn't specific enough for you. Fanboys of any kind are always blinded to what others say so I will restate my statement and make it even clearer, so not only you, but other fanboys will understand me also.

Backfire has a long recharge and is single targeted, so does Empathy (the non-aoe part ofc). it's pathetic in PvE. Especially when the OP compared msesers to necros. Now, does your fanboy syndrome has you under any other illusion you would like sharing with us? Because it will be my pleasure to shatter another one.]

About being the prettiest, I know you weren't serious there, but I honestly think that necros has the most beautiful armor in the game (Elite Luxon dyed black = EPIC).

Wow man, seriously get that d*ck out of your arse. You talk about biased people as if they are a lump of dirt on the floor and yet you seem to be the most closed minded, ignorant person in this thread. No body likes an ignorant loudmouth. Lets look at your points and dismantle them.

First, you completely mis-interpreted zodiacs point. ''Mesmers aren't very useful for general PvE. However, they shine in Elite Areas like DoA and The Deep." He never said anything about hard mode. So just about everything you ranted on about after saying this: ''Not true, HM is the necro's comfort zone.'' can be ignored. Yes we know that necros are great for hard mode. That doesnt make Mesmers crap.

Secondly, ALL mesmer skills are armor ignoring. ''Other professions are in obvious disadvantage in HM compared to NM because of the increased armor level and speed of casting and attacking.'' ''Some of the mesmer skills are not effected by AL'' So what you said there does not matter, either.

Thirdly, '' the increase in attacking and casting speed is in fact in the necros advantage'' This is also true for Mesmers. Ever heard of empathy? Backfire? But oh wait, mesmers can also prevent attacks in the first place. Ineptitude. Wandering eye. Clumsiness. I could go on.

Fourth, Mesmers have many skills they can use from their own lines (not just assassins promise) to reduce recharge. '' but they suck anyway (long recharge'' Matra of recovery. Echo. Arcane Echo. Again, I could go on.

Fifth. Just because Mesmers lack build variety in the PvE ''meta'' it does not mean that the builds they are effective in are any worse for it. ''ALL of the mesmers' builds use the same damn skill as their main source of damage''. Additionally, siting PvX wiki as some kind of holy grail of builds that work is ridiculous. There are many, many other effective builds out there that PvX do not show. This leads me nicely into the next point.

Sixth, Mesmers are a great class for supporting others in the party. They do a lot more than just damage. ''Necros are also able to do other roles than just debuffing and doing damage, they're also capable to support the physicals in their group (the physicals are the main source of damage in the majority of GW).'' Shatter hex, hex eater vortex, sympathetic visage are a few examples. Additionally, Mesmers are the best at support via bonds. Signet of illusions. Enough said.

Seventh. The fact that necromancers are needed in parties in high end play doesnt make them more in demand than mesmers in high end play. ''About Elite Areas, necros are always in demand.'' There are a lot more mesmers needed than necros per team.

Eighth. Mesmers are more widely used for farming. ''let's not start about farming options''. Anywhere a smite is needed in farming (most places in the game) a mesmer can do it. And they can do it better than monks. Necromancers have Spitefull spirit. Not as much as you make out.

Ninth. Anet did not make classes for just one part of the game. ''Mesmers are supposed to be made with PvP in mind'' What you said there demonstrates wonderfully your lack of understanding about mesmers.

I'd just like to say that you sound as if people can only like mesmers or necromancers and to choose a mesmer over a necro would be some great personal pain to you. No body is trying to argue that necromancers are bad at PvE, and most of what you just blabbed on about was just about that.

upier · May 23, 2009, 09:21 PM // 21:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kain Fz

Upier, does assassin's promise clumsiness count as pve skills? :<

Of course.
AP enables you to do things that shouldn't be possible. It's one of the most broken things in the game right now.

Ratson Itamar · May 23, 2009, 09:59 PM // 21:59

@ Bill Clinton - I knew this kind of post will come, didn't expect for it to come this strongly. Let's address your flaming, one by one, like I learned from you. God this is going to be long and boring, I'm not going to respond to your flaming yet again so listen closely.

1. what dear Zodiac said :"Necros are more useful for general PvE (missions, vanquishing etc)" - That DOES make mesmers suck in PvE, HM included. "Bull, that makes no sense" you must think to yourself. Well, Necros out perform everything a mesmer can do, that makes them crap. No other way to put it when one can't shine in a single aspect more than another profession. Same goes for why Rits suck. Do you understand now why Rits complain so much?

2 +3 because I've already spent more time on you than I should have had. I already addressed that. Reread it. You probably won't understand it even after a second reading so I will have to repeat myself again...Empathy and Backfire suck because they're not AoE. To top that Backfire has a long recharge not that Empathy is spammable. They both cost a lot for a mesmer too. You: "Bull, again! mesmers can bring great e-management skills" - Necros don't have to = bar compression + many attribute points saved.

4. Most of the skills that you've mentioned don't reduce your skills recharge at all, they just dupe ONE. Plus, AP recharges every skill, don't compare it to recharge reducing skills. Like that wasn't enough, Echo wastes your elite and Arcane Echo is very expensive.

5. I didn't say that mesmer are not as useful as necros based on variety, they're just much much more boring to play.

6. "Additionally, Mesmers are the best at support via bonds" - How can I even begin to answer to that...

6.1.1. Bonds are mainly bad in general PvE.
6.1.2. They're not the best at that, have no idea what you think that. it's just dumb.
6.1.3. They're again outperformed by other professions - monks and eles.

6.2.1. Like I've stated to many times before, necros can do it better.

7. Not necessarily true. /Me are wanted, that's true. I'm not sure what a Me/ primary has to offer that a N/ can offer or at least compensate for. Not sure and since it's 00:50 over here right now I'm not fond of the idea of checking it up. I can live with the doubt.

8. False. How can you even say that...I don't even kin to answer that...comparing necro and mesmer in farming... Seems that I'm losing my patience.

9. Is that the end? Can it be? God, are you there, in the light? Waiting for me? Anet is Anet, have a good long look at Imbagon and tell me that Anet doesn't make a profession for one part of the game, or at least do it after the class is already there.

Finally, I don't hate people who choose mesmers over necro. There're not a lot of people in this world that I hate. But I do dislike when the blind is trying to lead the blind. Mesmers are unmatched in PvP and 99.9% useless in PvE, accept it.

Now, I take my leave. Any other fanboys, don't bother me further. You're going to give me a stroke. So for one more time for old time sake, mesmers suck in PvE. I know you hate hearing yourself thinking it, which makes it ten times sweeter. PvE Mesmers are crap, shit, outpreformed, dull and boring. Later.

cr00mz · May 23, 2009, 10:00 PM // 22:00

thanks for all the input, i still havent deiced but since i got a low level mesmer and necromancer i will play them both and get a feel for them and maybe later decied which one i will focus on mainly.

Vires Invictae · May 23, 2009, 10:12 PM // 22:12

@cr00mz:

As someone with a GWAMMed mesmer as well as lot of pvp experience/titles, I will say that as a mesmer you're generally expected to be a lot better at the game than if you were playing a necro. I'm not saying that playing necro takes less skill, I'm only saying its an expectation you'll encounter. Its just something to keep in mind.

Before I decided on my mesmer I also was at a crossroads with mes/necro/ele for my PvE main. The final decision is ultimately up to you and what role you find that you like to play -- mesmer and necro primaries are both very good in general PvE, in hard mode, and in elite areas. Their solo/duo farming builds differ a bit (mes can keg farm, necro can 55 farm, etc.) and if you go mesmer primary you may have to invent your own builds, but both professions can easily hop on the cryway bandwagon with ease so don't worry about that.

Forget the number crunchers and flamers, try both professions for short bit and just see which one you enjoy playing more. They're both excellent in PvE and on the contrary to what many are arguing, similar (Until it comes to PvP of course). Some people decide on their primary based on how they want to look, some people choose it for the role they'll play, and some people wind up picking it because they found it the most fun.

And almost every profession uses 3 necro heroes so don't worry about that.

Lishy · May 24, 2009, 12:25 AM // 00:25

@Ratson Itamar:
Lol..... That's wrong on sooooo many levels. But I guess there's no need to lead the blind. I'll get nowhere.

ZodiacFear · May 24, 2009, 04:06 AM // 04:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ratson Itamar

what dear Zodiac said :"Necros are more useful for general PvE (missions, vanquishing etc)" - That DOES make mesmers suck in PvE, HM included.

I only said that necros are more useful for general PvE. You seem to forget about the elite areas, where mesmers are superior to necros.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ratson Itamar

7. Not necessarily true. /Me are wanted, that's true. I'm not sure what a Me/ primary has to offer that a N/ can offer or at least compensate for. Not sure and since it's 00:50 over here right now I'm not fond of the idea of checking it up. I can live with the doubt.

The two main advantages of a mesmer primary are, as I already mentioned, Fast Casting and an open secondary.

If i count the total amount of necros and mesmers in the current records in the 5 main elite areas (Urgoz, Deep, DoA, FoW, UW), I see 2 necros and 13 mesmers... That should be proof enough that mesmers > necros in elite areas.