Curse

xarkle · Sep 14, 2009, 02:41 AM // 02:41

Don't Get me wrong, I love the mesmer, but I feel like they got the short end of the straw in a lot of aspects. I don't feel like they are a fair pve character, and dont tell me the pve only skills fix that... cause that just proves that they were shorted in their other skills. I just feel like GW cut corners and some things that the assassin has should be the mesmers skills. For example:

I would combine domination and illusion magic into 1 attribute called Mind Magic and then the other attribute would be something like Deception. Deception should have been somethign like shadow arts in my opinion.

Your thoughts?

subarucar · Sep 14, 2009, 02:56 AM // 02:56

Mesmers are a PvP proffesion, GW balance is based on PvP (or it was before the PvP/PvE skill split).

Captain Bulldozer · Sep 14, 2009, 05:04 AM // 05:04

Mesmer are really good in both PvP and PvE. You just have to know how to play them, what their limitations are and how to beef em up in unexpected ways. Its probably the hardest profession to play, because it requires a lot of knowledge about skills, foes, professions etc. I had a really hard time developing a good mesmer bar until I had beaten the game with several other professions, but by then I realized how mesmers can (and DO) clean-up.

byteme! · Sep 14, 2009, 07:24 AM // 07:24

In PvE all you really need is brute force. That's something Mesmers lack. The long recharge on some of the Mesmers best skills kills the profession. To counter this issue you have to waste an elite slot on either AP, MoR or GoR. MoR is the only Mesmer elite of the 3 and is pretty meh. AP and GoR are non Mesmer elites which brings me back to my point. In case you haven't noticed the best elites to use to cover some of the Mesmers draw backs aren't even Mesmer elites.

Edenial, shutdown etc...is pointless in PvE. Why waste valuable time slowing the fight down when another class can take your place and just kill the enemy instead? Dead foes are the best kind of shutdown. Interupts can come in handy but things like Discordway, Sabway have been terrorizing PvE without any interupts so again that aspect of a Mesmer isn't absolutely necessary in most situations either.

Mesmer was the first profession I ever played going back 4 years now. I've grown to realize my Mesmer belongs in PvP after all this time.

jonnieboi05 · Sep 14, 2009, 02:24 PM // 14:24

Agreed. Mesmer is to PvP as Cereal is to Milk.

~LeNa~

Cherrie · Sep 14, 2009, 02:26 PM // 14:26

I must agree with byteme in 100%
Mesmers severely lack in PvE, whatever you say and whatever build you propose, Mesmers are the weakest class in PvE. Our skills are simply not made for the only thing that PvE stands for, which is - as byteme said - brute force. We simply don't have any brute force as a class; we used to have but it got nerfed into oblivion before PvE and PvP have been separated. There is simply no denying that. Even with AP, best Mesmer bar has PvE skills as it's core, there is a nice Illusion bar utilizing AP as well, but it goes nowhere near.
And what to have a Mes for, if we're actually playing other classes, just not as good?
Even our Primary Attribute is nowhere near other classes' primaries when it comes to PvE.

I would love to see some change PvE wise for Mesmers because it's still my favorite class and my Mes - my favorite character. But to be honest, I can't see how to improve out PvE much to retain Me's spirit... I think Illusion has the potential but on the other hand, I don't see devs doing anything to improve our situation really.

/endsadrant

Captain Bulldozer · Sep 14, 2009, 02:37 PM // 14:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by byteme!

In PvE all you really need is brute force. That's something Mesmers lack. The long recharge on some of the Mesmers best skills kills the profession. To counter this issue you have to waste an elite slot on either AP, MoR or GoR. MoR is the only Mesmer elite of the 3 and is pretty meh. AP and GoR are non Mesmer elites which brings me back to my point. In case you haven't noticed the best elites to use to cover some of the Mesmers draw backs aren't even Mesmer elites.

Edenial, shutdown etc...is pointless in PvE. Why waste valuable time slowing the fight down when another class can take your place and just kill the enemy instead? Dead foes are the best kind of shutdown. Interupts can come in handy but things like Discordway, Sabway have been terrorizing PvE without any interupts so again that aspect of a Mesmer isn't absolutely necessary in most situations either.

Mesmer was the first profession I ever played going back 4 years now. I've grown to realize my Mesmer belongs in PvP after all this time.

I'd really disagree that their profession is killed by long recharge times. I'd also disagree with your assesment of their useful elites. Plenty of other options are quite good in PvE. Lyssa'a Aura, Powerblock, VoR, Echo, Mantra of Recovery, Energy Surge, Hex Eater Vortex, Fevered Dreams, Ineptitude, Shared Burden, Signet of Illusions, and tease can all be very useful, not just the few you name. Just like in PvP, mesmers can easily sway the outcome of a battle just by their very presence. A well placed backfire or empathy can destroy a mob. The thing is that mesmers don't have a ton of AoE options, which seem to give most people a hard on in GW. A mesmer is a surgical tool, not a blunt instrument. Mesmers can utterly destroy single targets, and if you know the game well enough to know who the important and most dangerous foes to your party are, you can get them out of the way very quickly. But again, this means you have to know the foes and skills and professions inside and out usually to be able to do it well.

jonnieboi05 · Sep 14, 2009, 03:02 PM // 15:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Bulldozer

I'd really disagree that their profession is killed by long recharge times. I'd also disagree with your assesment of their useful elites. Plenty of other options are quite good in PvE. Lyssa'a Aura, Powerblock, VoR, Echo, Mantra of Recovery, Energy Surge, Hex Eater Vortex, Fevered Dreams, Ineptitude, Shared Burden, Signet of Illusions, and tease can all be very useful, not just the few you name. Just like in PvP, mesmers can easily sway the outcome of a battle just by their very presence. A well placed backfire or empathy can destroy a mob. The thing is that mesmers don't have a ton of AoE options, which seem to give most people a hard on in GW. A mesmer is a surgical tool, not a blunt instrument. Mesmers can utterly destroy single targets, and if you know the game well enough to know who the important and most dangerous foes to your party are, you can get them out of the way very quickly. But again, this means you have to know the foes and skills and professions inside and out usually to be able to do it well.

Very delicatly put. I loved the "mesmers are a surgical tool, not a blunt object" (paraphrased) line. Nearly made me cream. ^.^

~LeNa~

waeland · Sep 14, 2009, 03:21 PM // 15:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Bulldozer

IPlenty of other options are quite good in PvE. Lyssa'a Aura, Powerblock, VoR, Echo, Mantra of Recovery, Energy Surge, Hex Eater Vortex, Fevered Dreams, Ineptitude, Shared Burden, Signet of Illusions, and tease can all be very useful, not just the few you name. ...The thing is that mesmers don't have a ton of AoE options, which seem to give most people a hard on in GW.

Cry of Pain and Ether Nightmare are definitelly worth to mention, also one of few AoE mesmer options.

Thing about Me in PvE - in low and middle game Me is weaker than other casters. Enemy skills are seldom worts interrupts when you can just kill them fast instead. Until mobs are high level ele is the damage dealer and mm necro is amazing offense and defense in one. But later monster armor makes ele and minion master less efective and in HM curse necro and smiter monk and mesmer are the damage dealers. It just takes time

Cuilan · Sep 14, 2009, 06:28 PM // 18:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Bulldozer

I'd really disagree that their profession is killed by long recharge times. I'd also disagree with your assesment of their useful elites. Plenty of other options are quite good in PvE. Lyssa'a Aura, Powerblock, VoR, Echo, Mantra of Recovery, Energy Surge, Hex Eater Vortex, Fevered Dreams, Ineptitude, Shared Burden, Signet of Illusions, and tease can all be very useful, not just the few you name.

Pretty much sums up what I could say. Mesmers are an awesome PvE profession. o.O

Extend Conditions and condition spreading with Ineptitude, too.

Xenomortis · Sep 14, 2009, 07:47 PM // 19:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by waeland

Until mobs are high level ele is the damage dealer and mm necro is amazing offense and defense in one. But later monster armor makes ele and minion master less efective and in HM curse necro and smiter monk and mesmer are the damage dealers. It just takes time

MMs in HM are still one of the most effective damage dealers, it's just that Order of Undeath is a scary skill at first. Smiters and Mesmers pale in comparison to Curses Necros and Physicals though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by xarkle

Don't Get me wrong, I love the mesmer, but I feel like they got the short end of the straw in a lot of aspects. I don't feel like they are a fair pve character, and dont tell me the pve only skills fix that... cause that just proves that they were shorted in their other skills.

Mesmers have the problem that what they excel at just isn't valued in PvE. Given the current PvE state, the hard shutdown from a mesmer just isn't all that useful, particularly for a human player. They have their uses as a hero bar for their godly interrupting, but even then people can find a better alternative.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Bulldozer

Lyssa'a Aura, Powerblock, VoR, Echo, Mantra of Recovery, Energy Surge, Hex Eater Vortex, Fevered Dreams, Ineptitude, Shared Burden, Signet of Illusions, and tease can all be very useful, not just the few you name.

Of those, I would say mabye 3 are worth bringing along in general cases.
I would perfer not to waste my elite on energy management, but it's useful.
Powerblock is a single target interrupt and shutdown every 20 seconds. Mabye on an ele boss, but otherwise it's of limited value when you have 3 Flowstone Elementals hitting you with Savannah Heat and a Djin pounding you with SF.
VoR is reactive rubbish and has no synergy with any other mesmer hexes you bring. In fact, the skill becomes worse with them.
Echo... I can't think of a good non-elite that merits wasting my elite on. Except perhaps Mark of Pain...
Mantra of Recovery is inferior to AP. Upside is I don't need to spec Me/A and so has potential uses for other secondaries.
ESurge is a one time AoE nuke on a near decent recharge. Still rather meh and comparable to some non-elites.
Fevered Dreams is an excellent skill.
Hex Eater Vortex is on too long a recharge to be worthwhile for hex removal when you need it and the damage is too conditional to be worthwhile as a damage inflictor. I would rather not waste my elite on that.
Ineptitude is truly pathetic as a blind inflictor and not worth it for the damage.
Shared Burden. This is only just about worth it but is outdone by a Fevered Dreams build. An upshot is you can run some other stuff with it. Though, more worthwhile than some of the other stuff you mentioned.
Signet of Illusions is nice for gimmicks.
Tease is energy management and an AoE Interrupt. One of the better, but still irritatingly conditional elites you mentioned.

Captain Bulldozer · Sep 14, 2009, 11:50 PM // 23:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Of those, I would say mabye 3 are worth bringing along in general cases.

I would, and have, said that you're wrong

Your critiques are not poorly founded, but they fall into the trap that is normal amongst a decent portion of the GW community... You sir have a hard on for AoE dmg and are thinking like a necro. Not to say there's anything wrong with that, as Necros can be incredibly effective, but mesmers are intended for different purposes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

I would perfer not to waste my elite on energy management, but it's useful.
Powerblock is a single target interrupt and shutdown every 20 seconds. Mabye on an ele boss, but otherwise it's of limited value when you have 3 Flowstone Elementals hitting you with Savannah Heat and a Djin pounding you with SF.

Powerblock has a tendency to completely remove a foe from the fight. Many foes builds are single attribute builds. Powerblock on a monk can often make the monk in capable of casting a single spell. Also, while its true that powerblock can only shut-down one at a time, if you have 3 Flowstones and a Djinn on you, taking one of them completely out of the fight is bad how?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

VoR is reactive rubbish and has no synergy with any other mesmer hexes you bring. In fact, the skill becomes worse with them.

This kind of comment gets thrown around all the time as an example of how mesmer's suck. And then people cream themselves over SS. I declare hypocrisy. Reactive dmg against the AI is great, as the AI can't or won't stop itself from casting. As for no synergy, when the recent nerf to VoR has weakened it a bit, but if you're not a total noob mesmer, you shoudl know enough to spread hexes around from time to time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Echo... I can't think of a good non-elite that merits wasting my elite on. Except perhaps Mark of Pain...

Right, that's why there are so many echo-nuker builds out there. While echo is not my personal fav, its hard to ignore how effective it can be with skills like Cry of Pain or meteor shower.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Mantra of Recovery is inferior to AP. Upside is I don't need to spec Me/A and so has potential uses for other secondaries.

I'm consistently surprised that there isn't more QQing about it, but AP is way over-powered. Anyway, plenty of places in the game have frequent hex removal, making AP not so hot there, while MoR can stay up more as its a stance. But to be honest, saying an elite that performs a similar function for a different profession is better is not much of a reason that MoR is not good.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

ESurge is a one time AoE nuke on a near decent recharge. Still rather meh and comparable to some non-elites.
Fevered Dreams is an excellent skill.

Yes, fevered dreams can be great. Esurge can be great, but is better if used by several people on the same team in coordinated spikes. Or maybe you're against doing all of DoA with esrugeway in less than an hour.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Hex Eater Vortex is on too long a recharge to be worthwhile for hex removal when you need it and the damage is too conditional to be worthwhile as a damage inflictor. I would rather not waste my elite on that.

Despite the name, hex eater vortex is not great because it removes a hex. It's not too hard to find places where this skill can be used frequently. The hex removal is a bonus really, when you also get to remove and enchantment AND deal high armor ignoring dmg. Still, you're right in that its not one you take with you everywhere.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Ineptitude is truly pathetic as a blind inflictor and not worth it for the damage.

Once again, thinking like a necro. But you've got a good point about this one... of course this being a prophecies skill let's me say the reason its not as powerful these days is because of NF power-creep.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Shared Burden. This is only just about worth it but is outdone by a Fevered Dreams build. An upshot is you can run some other stuff with it. Though, more worthwhile than some of the other stuff you mentioned.
Signet of Illusions is nice for gimmicks.
Tease is energy management and an AoE Interrupt. One of the better, but still irritatingly conditional elites you mentioned.

Shared Burden makes foes in HM like foes in NM. Signet of illusions is good for gimmicks, and for bonding/farming. Not to mention the fact that you can use PvE skills at levels higher than otherwise obtainable with SoI. Tease is pretty good, but best on heroes, as most of us already know.

Once again, a lot of GW players will tell you that mesmers suck because they're not like necros (paraphrasing). Mesmers don't have a ton of AoE and so allegedly cannot compete with the curses line. What that argument assumes is that single target damage is inferior, which many people would agree with, even though it can easily be wrong. If you play a mesmer the way they were intended to be played, you'll find that in many ways they CAN be amongst the most powerful characters in the game in PvE OR PvP.

One final comment: stop being so hooked on single bar options. The game was designed in such a way that you're not supposed to take one bar or one team setup everywhere. Adaptation is one of the more important of what's required to play mesmer effectively.

upier · Sep 15, 2009, 12:47 AM // 00:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

MMs in HM are still one of the most effective damage dealers, it's just that Order of Undeath is a scary skill at first. Smiters and Mesmers pale in comparison to Curses Necros and Physicals though.

If you are running physicals, then you NEED a smiter. (At least a secondary one.)
SoH is just too good to not take.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Hex Eater Vortex is on too long a recharge to be worthwhile for hex removal when you need it and the damage is too conditional to be worthwhile as a damage inflictor. I would rather not waste my elite on that.

The biggest problem of HEV is that Shatter Hex is better.
And Shatter Hex' biggest problem?
That Smite Hex in in the same line as SoH.

Xenomortis · Sep 15, 2009, 12:49 AM // 00:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

If you are running physicals, then you NEED a smiter. (At least a secondary one.)
SoH is just too good to not take.

Well, unless it's my derv I stick SoH on the Orders nec. Forgive me for not counting that as the smiter.

I'll respond to Bulldozer later, I need sleep.

byteme! · Sep 15, 2009, 01:58 AM // 01:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Bulldozer

Lyssa'a Aura, Powerblock, VoR, Echo, Mantra of Recovery, Energy Surge, Hex Eater Vortex, Fevered Dreams, Ineptitude, Shared Burden, Signet of Illusions, and tease

@Captain Bulldozer - You may say you disagree with me 100% but you have thus far only fueled my argument even further without even realizing it.

*Note* In PvE brute force wins

Lyssa'a Aura - emanagement elite (you can have all the energy in the world but the 1 thing that will hold you back is skill recharge) Dedicating an elite for energy is in my mind not very desirable for a Mesmer.

Powerblock - 20 second recharge kills this elite. Sure you can shutdown an opponent but if you "miss" an interupt for whatever reason you're stuck with a recharging skill slot that serves no purpose and eats up your elite slot. We're not talking insane AI reflexes here. I'm talking about people, real people who make people mistakes.

VoR - This: For 10 seconds, target foe and adjacent foes take 15..39 damage whenever they use a skill and 5..41 damage if not under the effects of another Mesmer hex. It's a shadow of it's former self. And this: 20 second recharge.

Mantra of Recovery - This is 1 of the skills I brought up in my original post. It's decent but AP is better and AP IS NOT EVEN A MESMER ELITE! WTF?!

Energy Surge - This by itself is decent but again 20 second recharge. (this is becoming a common theme if you haven't picked up on it). However this skill and it's damage is dependent on an opponents energy. So having multiple copies of this skill isn't all that great because there comes a point where you get diminishing returns unless you're faced with Ele's or Necroes who have an abundance of energy.

Fevered Dreams - I like this skill. It's fun. No complaints here.

Ineptitude - Recharge! Recharge! Recharge! It's a 1 time skill that does a whopping 128 dmg (14 Illusion) every 20 seconds. Yes it does blind your opponent but if I wanted to blind someone there are easier ways to apply it and not suffer a 20 second recharge. This Elite gets outclassed by Clumsiness which is under the same attribute line, is a non-elite, does AoE damage and has a shorter recharge.

Shared Burden - I like this skill but I'd rather kill something dead then take the time to shut/slow them down. You're just delaying the inevitable.

Signet of Illusions - Niche, and gimmicky. It's fun to play with and quite good under the right hands.

tease - Elite E-manement AoE Interupt and Edenial all-in-one. See: Shared Burden & Lyssa's Aura.

Hex Eater Vortex - I'm divided on this skill. It's either really good or really bad because of the conditions it requires. The damage is good if it connects with many foes in the area otherwise it's really poor. The enchantment removal aspect of it is far too conditional despite the fact it's AoE. When you want to remove an important enchantment in PvE you need something on the spot and ready to be used. Having to wait for a hex to be applied first kills the enchant removal aspect of it. Besides HEV is never a first choice if enchantment removal is warranted. If the recharge of HEV was reverted back to 10 seconds again I'd consider using this skill again. As far as hex removal is concerned, hexes are hard to remove as it is already and a hex removal that can only be used every 15 seconds is very mediocre in my books.

As I stated in my first post on this thread.

Quote:

In PvE all you really need is brute force. That's something Mesmers lack. The long recharge on some of the Mesmers best skills kills the profession.

None of these skills fit the bill and suffer the same problems I had already mentioned. (you can argue for SoI build depending) Whatever you are trying to accomplish with the aforementioned elites is inferior to just picking a different class and brute forcing your way through PvE. I mean damage is damage is damage. Doesn't matter if it's single target or AoE, in PvE you either do a lot of DPS or give up your seat for someone who can.

Food for thought. Prodigy Insignia's for Mesmers:
Armor +5 (while recharging 1 or more Skills)
Armor +5 (while recharging 3 or more Skills)
Armor +5 (while recharging 5 or more Skills)

Is it just a coincidence Mesmers have insignia's such as that?

Don't get me wrong. I love my Mesmer but it's got many problems that make it very unappealing for PvE.

Daesu · Sep 15, 2009, 03:09 AM // 03:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Bulldozer

Once again, a lot of GW players will tell you that mesmers suck because they're not like necros (paraphrasing). Mesmers don't have a ton of AoE and so allegedly cannot compete with the curses line. What that argument assumes is that single target damage is inferior, which many people would agree with, even though it can easily be wrong.

Give mesmers soul reaping, a high single-target elite, and make it fast recharge, e.g. the ever popular Discord or Necrosis, and I am sure mesmers would start to be popular.

So I dont think it is just the fact that single target damage is inferior. If that were to be the case, then AP builds wouldn't be as popular as they are now. The combination of energy availability, mesmer spell recharge, and the number of conditions attached to the mesmer spell, are all important considerations too.

Quote:

If you play a mesmer the way they were intended to be played, you'll find that in many ways they CAN be amongst the most powerful characters in the game in PvE OR PvP.

Name one way where the mesmer is the MOST powerful character in the game in PvE.

byteme! · Sep 15, 2009, 03:25 AM // 03:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Name one way where the mesmer is the MOST powerful character in the game in PvE.

Without relying on PvE only skills and a secondary he can't and won't. There is nothing in the Mesmers personal arsenal that would make the class THE MOST powerful. NOTHING! Perhaps he's got versatility mixed up with powerful because Mesmers are versatile afterall.

Tenebrae · Sep 15, 2009, 06:45 AM // 06:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Give mesmers soul reaping, a high single-target elite, and make it fast recharge, e.g. the ever popular Discord or Necrosis, and I am sure mesmers would start to be popular.

Then you want to make them necros or nukers ? i think you should play a necro or a nuker instead lol . I dont think "making" a class like another will make that class popular at all

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

So I dont think it is just the fact that single target damage is inferior. If that were to be the case, then AP builds wouldn't be as popular as they are now. The combination of energy availability, mesmer spell recharge, and the number of conditions attached to the mesmer spell, are all important considerations too.

AP builds arent popular for single damage and you know it . How many ppl played/abused AP without being a prim sin before discordway ?

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Name one way where the mesmer is the MOST powerful character in the game in PvE.

Interrupting , skill bar blackouts and E-Denial. You can say those aspects of the PvE game arent important for you but there they are and yes , in PvE Mesmers are better interrupters than Rangers ( my Main is a Ranger and i have to admit it ).

Xenomortis · Sep 15, 2009, 10:28 AM // 10:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

Interrupting , skill bar blackouts and E-Denial. You can say those aspects of the PvE game arent important for you but there they are and yes , in PvE Mesmers are better interrupters than Rangers ( my Main is a Ranger and i have to admit it ).

Energy Denial is next to useless in PvE. The enemies have near inexhaustable energy supplies and some have apparantly absurd amounts of regen. In the time it takes to drain their energy, you might as well just have killed them.

Skill bar blackout? Blackout perhaps, but a knockdown is easier. Powerblock is another contender for this, but the rest of the disable options are really just DShot for spells or signets. Complicate is on a high recharge and only affects signets. Not many enemies carry multiple signets worth the effort.

Interrupt, yes. Except most of their interrupts are on spells only and have very long recharges, compared to the staple Savage and Distracting Shot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Bulldozer

You sir have a hard on for AoE dmg and are thinking like a necro. Not to say there's anything wrong with that, as Necros can be incredibly effective, but mesmers are intended for different purposes.

AoE damage? Yes, that's the best way to get things done in PvE. Even Discord teams have AoE damage of sorts and their large single target spikes just overwhelms most content.
Not sure what this "thinking like a necro" thing is though. Yes, if I'm going to debilitate the enemy, I need to debilitate every enemy, just to make it worthwhile.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Bulldozer

This kind of comment gets thrown around all the time as an example of how mesmer's suck. And then people cream themselves over SS. I declare hypocrisy. Reactive dmg against the AI is great, as the AI can't or won't stop itself from casting.

Don't worry, SS is pathetic too. Look on some of the older threads in the necro forums, the reactive hex discussion came up fairly frequently. In short, Reactive hexing is poor.
As for SS > VoR or VoR > SS, I don't really care.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Bulldozer

Right, that's why there are so many echo-nuker builds out there. While echo is not my personal fav, its hard to ignore how effective it can be with skills like Cry of Pain or meteor shower.

Counting the number of questionable builds isn't a measure of the effectiveness of a skill. For both of your examples Arcane Echo is a good alternative without wasting your elite and both of those skills have a drawback - Cry of Pain is weaker and Meteor Shower causes exhaustion and still has a huge recharge.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Bulldozer

I'm consistently surprised that there isn't more QQing about it, but AP is way over-powered. Anyway, plenty of places in the game have frequent hex removal, making AP not so hot there, while MoR can stay up more as its a stance. But to be honest, saying an elite that performs a similar function for a different profession is better is not much of a reason that MoR is not good.

AP gets by because anyone can use it. Even in areas with frequent hex removal, AP is still quite viable. It being stripped is generally the result of poor play on the part of the caster (don't take this the wrong way, it happens to me too). In areas with insane hex removal, mabye, but I haven't met an area I couldn't use AP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Bulldozer

Once again, thinking like a necro. But you've got a good point about this one... of course this being a prophecies skill let's me say the reason its not as powerful these days is because of NF power-creep.

Ok... single target blind. Might be worth it on a boss. Still, an ele has Blinding Flash that can easily be tacked on for this purpose, or perhaps Enervating Charge for weakness. If you have a necro, he may have Enfeebling Blood. That's your shutdown right there. No elite necessary.
At most, the ele could bring Blinding Surge, which puts Ineptitude to shame (there's the NF powercreep).
If I wanted single target damage on the physical, I'd bring something else. Ineptitude is just on too high a recharge to be actually useful for a single target effect.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Bulldozer

Once again, a lot of GW players will tell you that mesmers suck because they're not like necros (paraphrasing). Mesmers don't have a ton of AoE and so allegedly cannot compete with the curses line. What that argument assumes is that single target damage is inferior, which many people would agree with, even though it can easily be wrong. If you play a mesmer the way they were intended to be played, you'll find that in many ways they CAN be amongst the most powerful characters in the game in PvE OR PvP.

Whilst the Curses line (and parts of the Blood line) overlap with some Mesmer stuff, the two do play differently. However, the problem is quite simple:
The intended play style for the Mesmer is incompatible with PvE. I don't need to reduce the enemy to the capabilities of children (they're already pretty close), when it's much easier and effective to reduce them to corpses.
Such a problem is highlighted when Mesmer skills like Spiritual Pain are introduced. My understanding is this skill was at one point, very overpowered and had to be nerfed fairly quickly. Later on, skills like Cry of Pain came along.
Both these skills are intended for very different purposes than the mesmer originally was.

Tenebrae · Sep 15, 2009, 11:23 AM // 11:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Energy Denial is next to useless in PvE. The enemies have near inexhaustable energy supplies and some have apparantly absurd amounts of regen. In the time it takes to drain their energy, you might as well just have killed them.

I never said otherwise but yes , APPARANTLY is the word. They dont , trust me and you can notice it even more on Prophecies but im not gonna argue if E-denial is good , bad or not , just answered a question and thats it .

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Skill bar blackout? Blackout perhaps, but a knockdown is easier. Powerblock is another contender for this, but the rest of the disable options are really just DShot for spells or signets. Complicate is on a high recharge and only affects signets. Not many enemies carry multiple signets worth the effort.

You think too much on the paper, skill bar blackout with blackout skill is 2+2=4 , think further :
-Powerblock = Caster pwnd , AI can do it and humans too if they know foes skill bar ( wich i think any1 should ).
-Sig of humility : also works as an interrupt if done while elite skill was being casted. Disables foe elite enough time to kill him. If you face dangerous bosses , mantra of inscription and there you go.
-Spell Stealing : Plenty of skills to do it and you can even abuse them if you are going on Mimic "Sig of Illusion" Mesmer. Arcane thievery/Smooth Criminal/A.Larceny can disable half of a caster foe bar ( they only have 4-6 skills 90% of the time ), 1 or 2 stealing skills are more than enough.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Interrupt, yes. Except most of their interrupts are on spells only and have very long recharges, compared to the staple Savage and Distracting Shot.

Not most , maybe half with luck , now most of them affect chants ( irremovable once casted) and most have an effect (e-gain , damage , disable) and on top of that ...... they dont have arrow flight time ( hello HM with <1sec cast , GL interrupting with a bow ).
About that "very long" recharges i dont know what you mean because if we take out elites (R`s punishing is 5 sec recharge and Mes Psych distraction has 2 seg so they are even ) and savage shot , rest of ranger interrupts have 10 or more sec recharge and mes have 12-15 or more. Not big diff and definetly not very long recharges imo.

Imo , if you dont abuse Mes Hero AI for interrupting .... is like using Necro heroes without soul reaping. Just bring anti-melee char and some mes ...... all done , rest is damage and healing+prot .