Curse

xarkle · Sep 19, 2009, 11:05 AM // 11:05

I know a lot of people always chirp up saying that mesmer is a pvp character and that is what they are good at and such. They are good at some pvp areas and hex spamming with VoR will always be popular. However, I think that the mesmer is increasingly dull in pvp as far as AB, RA, and TA go, which are the only ones i like to play. For a pvp designed character, they do not have many options of builds that are good. pop on over to pvxwikia and see for yourself, there are like 2 builds for mesmer in the great catagory compare that to the other pvp based character, the assassin, and it is kind of ridiculous. Anyone feel like Anet has not allowed for enough variability in mesmers in these pvp places?

Desert Rose · Sep 19, 2009, 11:25 AM // 11:25

Not a single class was designed for PvP, PvE is just simply too dull so that there is no need for a support class.

And PvX-Wiki is not really a good indicator for build variety.

Killerminds · Sep 19, 2009, 11:25 AM // 11:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by xarkle

I think that the mesmer is increasingly dull in pvp as far as AB

AB isnt PvP
Please /uninstall

eGaming · Sep 19, 2009, 11:25 AM // 11:25

They're fine. Why does every class have to be able to be amazing everywhere? They can shutdown, damage, pressure and can choose a 2ndry for AB/RA etc for blocking stances.

ButterMeUp · Sep 19, 2009, 11:28 AM // 11:28

Mesmers have never been and never will be easy to pick up, due to the skill and style they require to play. You may have fun hopping on a fire ele and spamming all day, but mesmers were never designed to do this (VoR was dependant on the opponent to do the work in terms of daamge and was in many ways more shutdown than spammable damage.) They're one of the few classes left where being good at the bar is much MUCH more rewarding (though shutdown has taken a back seat in alot of the recent metas.) I hope the PD and PB bars never change. As for VoR, well, the recent nerfs indicate how most people felt about that bar.

Ele Mental · Sep 19, 2009, 11:39 AM // 11:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by ButterMeUp

Mesmers have never been and never will be easy to pick up, due to the skill and style they require to play. You may have fun hopping on a fire ele and spamming all day, but mesmers were never designed to do this (VoR was dependant on the opponent to do the work in terms of daamge and was in many ways more shutdown than spammable damage.) They're one of the few classes left where being good at the bar is much MUCH more rewarding (though shutdown has taken a back seat in alot of the recent metas.) I hope the PD and PB bars never change. As for VoR, well, the recent nerfs indicate how most people felt about that bar.

This.

Although I might add VoR is a lot less effective than a pro PD or PB. It only enjoyed success when it was easily covered by backfire, lc, suffering etc.

The main reason it doesn't have many viable bars is because it has a weak attribute line in illusion magic. The others are far more stronger combined together to provide effective shutdown and energy management.

Gift3d · Sep 19, 2009, 11:49 AM // 11:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desert Rose

And PvX-Wiki is not really a good indicator for build variety.

this

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killerminds

AB isnt PvP

and this.

in real pvp, a good mesmer can make or break an entire match. in ab and ra and crap like that, a good mesmer can take a fight from 4v4 to 3v3 at best. because in ab and ra most peoples builds are completely random, unpredictable, and use horrible skills. whereas in real pvp you know there's going to be a healer, you know there's going to be at least one of this, and at least one of that. you know instead of spamming flare like people in ab, they're going to use a range of effective skills being used by different players that you can benefit or completely save your team by interrupting or shutting down.

Lux Aeterna · Sep 19, 2009, 01:24 PM // 13:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by xarkle

hex spamming with VoR will always be popular. However, I think that the mesmer is increasingly dull in pvp as far as AB, RA, and TA go, which are the only ones i like to play. For a pvp designed character, they do not have many options of builds that are good.

First off VoR is regarded as one of the more boring and less skilled mesmer builds, if you're getting bored with VoR and the typical dom mesmer bar the problem is more yours than Anet's.

Second, mesmers in fact have a great variety of builds, you can do a large number of Me/E or Me/N things for example.

I suggest you stop being boring, become a Wastrel's Blackout mesmer and wtfpwn monks.

subarucar · Sep 19, 2009, 02:18 PM // 14:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ele Mental

The main reason it (VoR) doesn't have many viable bars is because it has a weak attribute line in illusion magic.

It's in Domination Magic, not Illusion.

The Cake Archer · Sep 19, 2009, 03:32 PM // 15:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by xarkle

For a pvp designed character, they do not have many options of builds that are good. pop on over to pvxwikia and see for yourself, there are like 2 builds for mesmer in the great catagory compare that to the other pvp based character, the assassin, and it is kind of ridiculous. Anyone feel like Anet has not allowed for enough variability in mesmers in these pvp places?

I counted, there are more 'Great' mesmer builds than there are rit, derv, paragon, necro, and even assassin and warrior.

Quote:

I think that the mesmer is increasingly dull in pvp as far as AB, RA, and TA go,

Mesmers are effectve in all these formats. In AB, you can take VoR to help nuke shrines while still providing shutdown. RA monks die in 3 seconds with backfire, and mesmers are (atleast were) used in hexways in TA.

If your bored of playing VoR, take a look at the recently buffed Illusion of pain and the illusion line.

Ele Mental · Sep 19, 2009, 03:36 PM // 15:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by subarucar

It's in Domination Magic, not Illusion.

I was talking about mesmer as a class in that instance, not just vor.

i farm baddies · Sep 19, 2009, 03:36 PM // 15:36

the vor build is a giant bitchbar, real mesmers use pd and pd and can wreck teams in ra. shame/div monks and shutting down those nooby fire eles wins games

Masmar · Sep 19, 2009, 06:00 PM // 18:00

Pd and PB is where its at, RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO VoR

paranon · Sep 19, 2009, 09:17 PM // 21:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by xarkle

The other pvp based character, the assassin

sorry, what?

Mesmers have their place. VoR may be a bitchbar but it provides incredible pressure when played well in conjunction with other pressure based bars. PB is a lot harder, but in the right situation and in the right hands, has the potential to be even more destructive.

In real pvp, mesmers are incredibly versatile classes. They can be used to shut down the enemy spellcasters with interrupts, they can provide large amounts of damage through VoR and Backfire, and their fast-casting attribute can be used to spam spells for offense or defense.

In the right hands they are incredibly versatile and incredibly effective, in the wrong hands, they can do nothing at all.

xarkle · Sep 30, 2009, 02:18 AM // 02:18

....... 70% of you mention VoR as one of the only ways to play my mesmer, point proven.

moriz · Sep 30, 2009, 02:41 AM // 02:41

AB is a game of territorial control. it consists of two parts:

-taking territory, which consists of capturing shrines
-defending territory, which consists of fighting other players

those who say AB isn't pvp are simply stupid enough to play only half of the game. you can safely ignore what they have to say.

with all this in mind, you should design your own build based on one (or both) of the principles above. i suggest you go with the second part, which means you'll be focussed on shutting down opposition teams. the easiest way to achieve this is to shutdown opposing nukers from blasting your shrines to bits. i don't know how good you are with interrupts, but here's a fun build that i've made up on the spot:

Me/A
psychic instability {e}
power spike
blackout
diversion
shatter enchantment
shadow walk
dash
(optional)

certainly not the best available but it's great fun for screwing people around.

Ganks · Oct 08, 2009, 08:30 AM // 08:30

AB isn't PvP because no one is bringing skills designed to stop or fight you. It's all about CAPPING the NODES, which conveniently very few people actually ever do, especially on the Kurzick side... Take your AB builds into TA and see how quickly you get stomped. I'd bet you would get so emo that you would never TA again.

I have my glad title. How about you? Doubt it.

in TA you are fighting 4v4, the goal is not to capture nodes but is literally PvP.
Just because you refuse to cap nodes in AB doesn't make AB suddenly equivalent to PvP.

Very few PvPers actually ever AB unless it is just to pass the time. There is no point to it. It's equally pointless to farm faction from AB. Everything about it is pointless. It is in no way or shape any form of PvP what so ever.

Only PvE noobs would ever say that, and you guys said the same thing about every other cheap gimmick build that has ever been or was, such as IWAY. Well quite frankly I'm sick of defending you, get some skill or quit and leave. I don't really care what you think or what you do.
The fact that you are sitting here arguing with us about this, of all things, show you care what we think and that what we think about you is really what this is all about.

Well rest assured, you are henceforth branded as Noob FOREVER. Congratulations, you now know what I think.

I really don't advise you reply to this. No good can come out of this discussion. It's impossible to win this argument unless perhaps you work for Anet.

upier · Oct 08, 2009, 08:44 AM // 08:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ganks

AB isn't PvP because no one is bringing skills designed to stop or fight you. It's all about CAPPING the NODES, which conveniently very few people actually ever do, especially on the Kurzick side... Take your AB builds into TA and see how quickly you get stomped. I'd bet you would get so emo that you would never TA again.

I have my glad title. How about you? Doubt it.

in TA you are fighting 4v4, the goal is not to capture nodes but is literally PvP.
Just because you refuse to cap nodes in AB doesn't make AB suddenly equivalent to PvP.

Very few PvPers actually ever AB unless it is just to pass the time. There is no point to it. It's equally pointless to farm faction from AB. Everything about it is pointless. It is in no way or shape any form of PvP what so ever.

Only PvE noobs would ever say that, and you guys said the same thing about every other cheap gimmick build that has ever been or was, such as IWAY. Well quite frankly I'm sick of defending you, get some skill or quit and leave. I don't really care what you think or what you do.
The fact that you are sitting here arguing with us about this, of all things, show you care what we think and that what we think about you is really what this is all about.

Well rest assured, you are henceforth branded as Noob FOREVER. Congratulations, you now know what I think.

I really don't advise you reply to this. No good can come out of this discussion. It's impossible to win this argument unless perhaps you work for Anet.

TA!?
Seriously?

Either one accepts AB as part of PvP in the larger sense or one decides to make only certain modes to be "TRUE" PvP.
And if that is the case - then TA is as far from being PvP as UWSCs are.