Curse

paranon · Sep 22, 2009, 09:10 PM // 21:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

In PvE?

Um....there are no 'hard' professions in PvE.

AP + EVAS + CoP + FH! = easy.

Arcane Echo + E-surge = easy spike.

Arcane Echo + RoJ (pre-nerf) = easy......(post-nerf) = easy in NM.

Mesmers, just like every other profession in PvE are easy.

PvE is only as easy as you choose to make it. Yes, if you will run hilariously overpowered builds then it will be too easy. What i don't get is why everybody then says "nerf AP, it makes it too easy" if you think something makes the game too easy, then don't run it. It's perfectly simple. If you want to run a proper build, nobody is stopping you.

And no, im not one of those "if you don't like it, don't run it" people, i never run AP, i just don't enjoy playing with it, I think it should be nerfed. But complaining that it makes things easy is pointless, the only person making it too easy is the person running those builds: You.

Karate Jesus · Sep 22, 2009, 10:53 PM // 22:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by paranon

PvE is only as easy as you choose to make it. Yes, if you will run hilariously overpowered builds then it will be too easy. What i don't get is why everybody then says "nerf AP, it makes it too easy" if you think something makes the game too easy, then don't run it. It's perfectly simple. If you want to run a proper build, nobody is stopping you.

And no, im not one of those "if you don't like it, don't run it" people, i never run AP, i just don't enjoy playing with it, I think it should be nerfed. But complaining that it makes things easy is pointless, the only person making it too easy is the person running those builds: You.

Um...none of that makes PvE less easy. I don't see anyone screaming for an E-surge nerf, but it's ridiculously overpowered in some dungeons, even with H/H. The name of the game in PvE is damage. Debuffing (what mesmers were designed for) isn't that great against ridiculous amounts of damage.

Mesmers can be difficult in PvP (unless you use the standard Dual VoR midline-type build), but that only makes them fun.

paranon · Sep 23, 2009, 03:42 PM // 15:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

Um...none of that makes PvE less easy. I don't see anyone screaming for an E-surge nerf, but it's ridiculously overpowered in some dungeons, even with H/H. The name of the game in PvE is damage. Debuffing (what mesmers were designed for) isn't that great against ridiculous amounts of damage.

Mesmers can be difficult in PvP (unless you use the standard Dual VoR midline-type build), but that only makes them fun.

That wasn't my point. You said "No profession is hard in PvE", my point is that if you will run ridiculous AP bars then no, it won't be hard, but if you play it as they are meant to be played then you will find that alot of professions are quite challenging in PvE.

Karate Jesus · Sep 23, 2009, 06:48 PM // 18:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by paranon

That wasn't my point. You said "No profession is hard in PvE", my point is that if you will run ridiculous AP bars then no, it won't be hard, but if you play it as they are meant to be played then you will find that alot of professions are quite challenging in PvE.

Name one profession that's inherently difficult in the current PvE model.

They just don't exist. The power creep made it possible for HM to be child's play a long time ago.

Cobalt · Sep 23, 2009, 06:52 PM // 18:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

Name one profession that's inherently difficult in the current PvE model.

They just don't exist. The power creep made it possible for HM to be child's play a long time ago.

This begs the question; if mesmers are so powerful and easy to use then why are there so few?

paranon · Sep 23, 2009, 07:17 PM // 19:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

Name one profession that's inherently difficult in the current PvE model.

They just don't exist. The power creep made it possible for HM to be child's play a long time ago.

No professions are "inherently difficult". Whether something is difficult or not depends entirely on how you play it. Mesmers ARE difficult if you play interrupt bars and try and protect your party by blocking enemy spells/attacks. If you just run AP then of course it isn't difficult.

Yet again you have completely missed the point of my post.
PvE can be as easy as or as difficult as you want it to be.

If you wanna roll through pve then the discord bars are on wiki.
If you want a challenge, to play the game, become proficient at your role and have fun, then the builds come from experimentation and perseverence, and you can make things as challenging as you want by running bars that require more skill and making sure that nothing is too easy.

The Drunkard · Sep 23, 2009, 08:11 PM // 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cobalt

This begs the question; if mesmers are so powerful and easy to use then why are there so few?

They're quite easy to use, but you're never going to see your screen fill up with numbers like some professions can achieve. Mesmers don't have a niche in PvE aside from minor shutdown and dmg support; but that dosen't mean they suck.

Karate Jesus · Sep 23, 2009, 08:11 PM // 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by paranon

No professions are "inherently difficult". Whether something is difficult or not depends entirely on how you play it. Mesmers ARE difficult if you play interrupt bars and try and protect your party by blocking enemy spells/attacks. If you just run AP then of course it isn't difficult.

Yet again you have completely missed the point of my post.
PvE can be as easy as or as difficult as you want it to be.

If you wanna roll through pve then the discord bars are on wiki.
If you want a challenge, to play the game, become proficient at your role and have fun, then the builds come from experimentation and perseverence, and you can make things as challenging as you want by running bars that require more skill and making sure that nothing is too easy.

No, I have not missed your point. I'm ignoring it because it doesn't make sense.

PvE can be as easy or as difficult as you make it, but why in the name of all that is holy would you want PvE to be difficult? That's what PvP is for....

paranon · Sep 23, 2009, 08:34 PM // 20:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

No, I have not missed your point. I'm ignoring it because it doesn't make sense.

PvE can be as easy or as difficult as you make it, but why in the name of all that is holy would you want PvE to be difficult? That's what PvP is for....

The question is, why would you want PvE to be easy? Easy things are boring. Challenging things are fun.

Daesu · Sep 23, 2009, 09:47 PM // 21:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by paranon

The question is, why would you want PvE to be easy? Easy things are boring. Challenging things are fun.

I dont think every area in pve has the same level of difficulty so you can always choose to play in a more difficult area if you want to. PvE can be as difficult as you want it to be too if you gimp yourself.

So I think PvE should be easy in general, which it is, but with some difficult areas.

Tenebrae · Sep 23, 2009, 10:17 PM // 22:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

Name one profession that's inherently difficult in the current PvE model.

They just don't exist. The power creep made it possible for HM to be child's play a long time ago.

So your entire argument is that "no profession is hard on pve , therefore mesmer is not the hardest" ? . That doesnt make sense , take out "hardest" for "less easier" or whatever you like dude but saying that is like saying nothing. We all know that you dont need 2 careers to play PvE HM with any profession , no need to point that thank you .

jutuomin · Oct 06, 2009, 09:05 AM // 09:05

I have now plaid GW for about a year and I only own the Prophesies and Factions episodes.
So I haven't had time to make chars from any profession (nor I have access to them also either)..
My first (and main) char is a mesmer and I've played one for about 100 hours now and this is what I think..
There are several things in many of the professions that are difficult to master - for sure.
But I still do think that mesmer is one of the hardest professions to master as with every enemy and every playing style you need to adjust your own playing a little bit..
To me if almost feels like playing chess but the enemies pieces positions are changing from game to game.

But still:
All from the beginning I have got hang on mesmer very easily. Some have stated that playing a mesmer is difficult, but those who get to the playing style easily master mesmer quite easily. I think that is true..

Also..
I did try to be a warrior - and then deleted that char. It just wasn't my thing. While being a mesmer I felt good from the beginning.
And I do agree that mesmers die very easily. One of the best strategies for a mesmer (in my opinion) is not to die. If you can master that you'd probably play mesmer very well..
Also .. to learn from one's mistakes is a very useful skill. So use that =)

Psymon Vexus · Oct 15, 2009, 06:06 PM // 18:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by jutuomin

One of the best strategies for a mesmer (in my opinion) is not to die.

One of the best bits of advice I've ever read lol.

Cuilan · Oct 15, 2009, 09:38 PM // 21:38

That isn't a profession specific tip, sir.

paranon · Oct 16, 2009, 09:37 PM // 21:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

I dont think every area in pve has the same level of difficulty so you can always choose to play in a more difficult area if you want to. PvE can be as difficult as you want it to be too if you gimp yourself.

So I think PvE should be easy in general, which it is, but with some difficult areas.

Do you play through call of duty on "recruit" mode? No, you don't (shouldn't O.o) because it is way too easy and you get bored, i didn't buy guild wars to blast through "hard" mode missions with incredible ease because ultimately, running discordway etc is (imo) a very boring way of playing the game. I might be "gimping" myself if you choose to call it that, but personally i find it a more fun way of playing through the game.

Steps_Descending · Oct 19, 2009, 12:05 AM // 00:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

PvE can be as easy or as difficult as you make it, but why in the name of all that is holy would you want PvE to be difficult? That's what PvP is for....

I really feel like responding to that one for some reason...

WEll jesus, believe it or not but some people actually like to play GW for the sake of playing GW. MAybe they were too cheap for WoW and they want PvE, maybe they just like GW mecanics but aren't into PvP (the more I look at it , the more I see GW could have also been a very good PvE game if not for the build they allowed us to use), or maybe they want to play something OTHER that PvP but still have some kind of challenge.

That can mean playing 2-3 hr/day, just do a random vq/zq/mission/dungeon for the sake of doing it. And, heck!, the game gives you money for that, even if you don't farm UWSC! Sure you don't make quite as much, but you get paid to have fun(which is what some people want) instead of being paid more but wasting your time. For those people, getting worthless money and fun is better than getting twice as much worthless money and not having fun.

That doesn't mean they aren't going for the titles/grindy reward, they just are more interested in the road to the title than in the title itself.

maxxfury · Oct 19, 2009, 02:46 AM // 02:46

Been comparatively underpowered in pve doesnt mean its a harder or the hardest to play.

Cuilan · Oct 19, 2009, 04:38 AM // 04:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxxfury

Been comparatively underpowered in pve doesnt mean its a harder or the hardest to play.

I did The Eternal Grove as a zaishen mission in hard mode with 5 mesmers, no deaths, no cons, no minion master, and with bonus.

draxynnic · Oct 19, 2009, 11:47 AM // 11:47

That's possibly because of the general inverse relationship between a profession's (perceived) effectiveness and the average skill of players of that profession.

maxxfury · Oct 19, 2009, 03:02 PM // 15:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

That's possibly because of the general inverse relationship between a profession's (perceived) effectiveness and the average skill of players of that profession.

hinting that people who main a mesmer are generally better than your avarage elem, sin or wammo? :P the people who from MY exp who play the best seem to have mained either a mesmer, monk or ranger.

REpve.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

I did The Eternal Grove as a zaishen mission in hard mode with 5 mesmers, no deaths, no cons, no minion master, and with bonus.

Been comparatively underpowered doesn mean not powerful enough to do lolpve. It means they are, when compared to other classes, less powerful...example necro.

And that in its self doesnt make them harder to play.. by any stretch of the imagination. Infact the current vor craze is pretty boring and easy to run, echo, cast hex, cop, cast hex, yawn.

It doesnt mean in any way, shape or form you cant do lolpve. hell you can do that mission with 2 people and regular crappy henchies or bad heroes. but thats beside the point. Hell you can do most of it asleep with an empty bar :/ hell in [dvdf] we often have VERY heavy mesmer teams for stuff, infact we were pretty well known for it..