Curse

Xenomortis · Sep 10, 2009, 01:56 PM // 13:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

Maxx's point was that the combination allows use of blind and the Mandragor Effect on one character, which the N/Me can't do. Of course, you could do it as an E/Me, but if you can survive without energy storage than it's kinda redundant.

I haven't thought up a Me/E build that looks reliable for that purpose. Weakness sources are all at 10 energy (compared to a Necro's Enfeeble), Blinding Flash is at 15 energy. If you run Steam, you need a burning source, Glyph of Immolation is an obvious choice, bringing us to 10 energy. However this costs 2 skill slots and burning only serves to provide an extra condition with limited utility. It also required a decent water spec for useful length of blind (meaning we'd struggle for a decent length on Weakness).

Another option I've just thought of is Earth Magic - Ebon Hawk and Ash Blast with YMLAD. A bit energy intensive for the 10e weakness spell and it's a projectile, but with care you should be fine.

Daesu · Sep 10, 2009, 02:50 PM // 14:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

Maxx's point was that the combination allows use of blind and the Mandragor Effect on one character, which the N/Me can't do. Of course, you could do it as an E/Me, but if you can survive without energy storage than it's kinda redundant.

Xeno has already provided good answers to that.

Fevered Dreams is already 10e and Blinding Flash is 15e so these can be quite energy intensive for a Me/E. The usual way to counter that is to bring GoLE and AI. If you dont bring energy management, it is going to be too energy intensive for a mesmer to keep this up for long.

Drain Delusions is usually used on Phantom Pain and Shrinking Armor for deep wound and cracked armor. I still prefer to have either weakness or blind and spread it through Fevered Dreams. This way, I have daze for casters as well as another shutdown condition for physical attackers.

Other than that, deep wound and cracked armor can also be used to trigger daze from Fevered Dreams, although they require the extra skill slots which can be provided by Finish Him which Xeno has already pointed out. It defeats the purpose of having fast casting if you need to bring and cast all these extra skills to achieve daze. Also if you bring AI or Drain Delusions then you have to pump points to Inspiration which means a 4 way split for your attribute points.

One way to get a burning source is to bring Summon Ruby Djinn then use Steam to inflict blindness, but that is not reliable.

maxxfury · Sep 10, 2009, 03:34 PM // 15:34

Dont have GW access atm, but i believe i ran something along the line of :

OQZEAWsDmKdDMBYT2DdTGTqOI6A
[Fevered Dreams][Fragility][YMLAD"][Ash Blast][YaA weaklings"][Finish Him!"]
[Auspicious Incantation][Deep Freeze]

The att split is fine 4 ways as you dont need massive investments to get the results. and durations.

Maybe a little heavy on Pve skills to apply conditions. But you Get
Cripple/Blind/Weakness/Cracked Armour/Deep wound/Daze and bonus from Frag. From one source without needing to spec blind ect on another toon.

I believe the blind DOES make it more powerful than the Me/n version if a touch harder on energy and application. (lack of enfeeble/weaken armour)

BUT It all depends IF you need the blind due to the area (eg HEAVY melee) which is better than weakness(well better with the 2 tbh but meh :P)

I wouldnt run it as a universal works and is needed everywere kind of bar. But blind can make a big difference.

If you feel the Blind isnt needed Then by all means run it on a nec! They to have a slight (and i mean massive) advantage in general terms over the poor messy with SR.

Xenomortis · Sep 10, 2009, 03:50 PM // 15:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

One way to get a burning source is to bring Summon Ruby Djinn then use Steam to inflict blindness, but that is not reliable.

It is also a waste of a PvE skill slot. Two of them should be taken with such builds - YMLAD and FH, so the last one is quite precious.
At the risk of hijacking this thread further:

My mesmer currently runs this:
[OQREAZsTeGdDMBYTGTaDWHkTBFA]
Very similar to my Necro's build because I'm not very creative at the moment and am quite lazy - Rip Enchantment replaced by Drain Delusions and SoLS replaced with Energy Tap.
Drain Delusions is used on Fragility when the target is near death (you can time this nicely with FH, allowing the damage from fragility through and stripping it just before the target dies).
Energy Tap because it's what I have unlocked at the moment and is fairly reliable. I can't really find anything else to replace it. I don't like Auspacious Incantation.

This has not been run through HM, but the Necro version has.

Missed this earlier...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

The advantage of going with Me/E is GoLE, but if you have to cast energy management skills before your spells then that somewhat defeats the advantage of having fast casting in the first place.

I don't much like GoLE. It only postpones the inevitable unless you are very conservative on your spell casting (reducing your performance) and in a drawn out fight, you'll still crumble.
It works on Eles because of the Attunements, which still give the full energy return for no cost. But in a build like this, you need strong, more frequent returns.
Although it seems odd, given the skill basically gives you 15 energy at 0 ES.

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxxfury

[Fevered Dreams][Fragility][YMLAD"][Ash Blast][YaA weaklings"][Finish Him!"]
[Auspicious Incantation][Deep Freeze]

Oops. Forgot about "You are all Weaklings!" It's inferior to Enfeebling Blood but looks a good enough substitute if you're not a Necro primary or secondary. It also has the advantage of being a shout.
With Fevered Dreams and YMLAD, Deep Freeze should be unnecessary. The mob should already be crippled (which is 50% movement speed reduction) and you already have a quick recharging cover hex in the form of fragility.

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxxfury

BUT It all depends IF you need the blind due to the area (eg HEAVY melee) which is better than weakness(well better with the 2 tbh but meh :P)

This may be more of a personal thing, but I have never gone into an area wishing I had AoE blind. Certainly it's powerful, but I'm not fully convinced it's worth the effort.
No doubt, if you can easily run it, you probably should - it's an advantage an E/Me and Me/E have over the Necro variants and they should certainly try to take advantage of it.

Well this thread has derailed rather nicely I think.

Daesu · Sep 10, 2009, 04:22 PM // 16:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

It is also a waste of a PvE skill slot. Two of them should be taken with such builds - YMLAD and FH, so the last one is quite precious.
At the risk of hijacking this thread further:

Actually I used it to replace CoP which I dont really like, after the nerf. I usually have Air of Superiority in it instead of CoP in my original build that uses Blinding Flash. I always have YMLAD and FH on my bar for Fevered Dreams.

Another reason why I dont like using Drain Delusions for this is that at 9+1 Inspiration, you get back 16e but you have already used 5e to cast it and if you drain Fragility which costed you 5e, then your net return is only 6e.

draxynnic · Sep 11, 2009, 01:10 PM // 13:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

I haven't thought up a Me/E build that looks reliable for that purpose. Weakness sources are all at 10 energy (compared to a Necro's Enfeeble), Blinding Flash is at 15 energy. If you run Steam, you need a burning source, Glyph of Immolation is an obvious choice, bringing us to 10 energy. However this costs 2 skill slots and burning only serves to provide an extra condition with limited utility. It also required a decent water spec for useful length of blind (meaning we'd struggle for a decent length on Weakness).

Ehhh... If you had infinite character slots in your party, you'd have a dedicated blindbot carrying the Blind.

As things are, though, the Me/E (or E/Me - I haven't done any comparative analysis on which is better, but even using energy management like Auspicious and GOLE I imagine the Mesmer is faster, especially if the energy management if precast) gives you options that the N/Me doesn't have, at the cost of some other options (Weakness being the obvious one) being less convenient. That said, a Me/E mandragor inna can with a necromancer contributing may be more effective (at least in hard mode) than a N/Me mandragor inna can with an Elementalist blindbot offsider.

Xenomortis · Sep 11, 2009, 01:32 PM // 13:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

Ehhh... If you had infinite character slots in your party, you'd have a dedicated blindbot carrying the Blind.

That really isn't relevant. With an infinite number of character slots I could bring an infinite number of characters utilising pretty much every possible skill combination that might be effective.
Hell, an infinite amount of wanding would be good.

What I have though, is 8 party slots. I don't value blind enough to bother with it if it means sacrificing a party slot unless that blind inflictor is convinient and efficient.

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

As things are, though, the Me/E (or E/Me - I haven't done any comparative analysis on which is better, but even using energy management like Auspicious and GOLE I imagine the Mesmer is faster, especially if the energy management if precast) gives you options that the N/Me doesn't have, at the cost of some other options (Weakness being the obvious one) being less convenient. That said, a Me/E mandragor inna can with a necromancer contributing may be more effective (at least in hard mode) than a N/Me mandragor inna can with an Elementalist blindbot offsider.

Yes, obviously. The necro cannot blind, the ele can.
Looking at it, Energy Storage has little to offer any build of this type. Elementalist energy management is ill-suited to builds of this type (few ele skills with low specs) outside of elites. At least Fast Casting reduces the odds FD is interrupted.

I'm not sure what the later bit of that paragraph is saying there. Dedicating one party member to a condition build with Fevered Dreams is one thing, but having a second one just to augment that is a waste. Your offensive power drops with one, but it'll drop further with two people working towards it.
My N/Me build provides AoE Cripple, Weakness, Cracked Armour, Deep Wound, Daze and Bleeding (the last one is a little conditional). That means I miss Burning, Blind, Poison and Disease. Of these, only one is truly useful. Burning at most works to trigger fragility and synergise with some skills with a burning requirement (the best one I think being They're on Fire). Poison and Disease are just degeneration.

Even then, I hold Blind to be unnecessary. Physical attackers are more easily shutdown with Weakness (they hit for bugger all then) or even Reckless Haste. The only time when I mght appreciate blindness fully is against large ranger mobs that hit below the trigger for Spirit Bond and even then, Aegis is a good friend.

Actually, I was in Bogroot HM with a load of guildies once. An AP-MoP caller (me), a N/Me with Fevered Dreams and a load of other people. Our ER Ele tacked Blinding Flash to their build and put it on whoever the N/Me called FD on (whilst trying to ignore my calling spam). How effective it truly was though, I do not know.

Daesu · Sep 11, 2009, 03:24 PM // 15:24

To be honest, I dont really like the FD builds on my mesmer. Energy is still an issue because neither AI nor GOLE helps with the cost of YMLAD and FH. AI and GOLE have high recharge while the build is quite spammable between targets. I still consider a necro to be better suited for this. Normal targets also tend to die fast in HM with discord heroes, before you even complete casting your FD, Frag, YMLAD, Ash Blast.

Xenomortis · Sep 11, 2009, 03:33 PM // 15:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

To be honest, I dont really like the FD builds on my mesmer. Energy is still an issue because neither AI nor GOLE helps with the cost of YMLAD and FH. AI and GOLE have high recharge while the build is quite spammable between targets. I still consider a necro to be better suited for this. Normal targets also tend to die fast in HM with discord heroes, before you even complete casting your FD, Frag, YMLAD, Ash Blast.

I agree that a Necro is better suited to this. I've commented that I don't much like GoLE or AI and I have found Drain Delusions on Fragility to be the best option.

I've been playing round with Ash Blast, but having to get it right with YMLAD is annoying. And both Ebon Hawk and YaaW are inferior to Enfeeble.

I don't run this with Discord though. I haven't tried it out on Discord heroes yet.

Daesu · Sep 11, 2009, 03:56 PM // 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

I agree that a Necro is better suited to this. I've commented that I don't much like GoLE or AI and I have found Drain Delusions on Fragility to be the best option.

I've been playing round with Ash Blast, but having to get it right with YMLAD is annoying. And both Ebon Hawk and YaaW are inferior to Enfeeble.

I don't run this with Discord though. I haven't tried it out on Discord heroes yet.

You are right about the energy management for a build such as this one. Discord heroes tend to kill targets too quickly but I can't really complain about that, can I?

Yes Ash Blast is hard to time it right and you must make sure you have at least 15e before casting the YMLAD+Ash Blast combo otherwise you would be stuck. So I prefer the "You are all Weaklings!". Using that with YMLAD, I can hit the 2 conditions requirement much faster and even if I can't get blind out with Ash Blast, at least I have weakness.

Even though I dont really like Drain Delusions, I can't think of a better substitude at the moment. This is what I came up with all the ideas presented on this thread so far:

OQZEAZsTmGdDMBcTaT2DFTCFkTB

maxxfury · Sep 11, 2009, 03:57 PM // 15:57

So? we came to the conclusion that:

Mesmers got the shaft in pve

All the fun stuff is easier and cheaper to run on a necro

The Ap stuff is equally or better run on necro do to the nec having some solid skills thats arent pve(point's at mop/barbs/rigor yada yada) also due to Sr.

And the Mes supposed pug friendly shining light of Vor is pants!(REactive blahh)

Oh well untill some balance ill be sticking with my Ap-Ae 'evas + pve skill abuse spike machine... which ive ran for longer than i can remember
Or a mandragon in a can. massive options lulz

*edit*

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

..snip..

OQZEAZsTmGdDMBcTaT2DFTCFkTB

Thats basically the best i came up with too! with the last 2 slots been for Eman. Which i could never really choose 2 over another 2

Xenomortis · Sep 11, 2009, 04:00 PM // 16:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

OQZEAZsTmGdDMBcTaT2DFTCFkTB

That is exactly what I came up with when I obtained You are all Weaklings (subbing out Ebon Hawk, which was poor). Illusion at 11+1+2 and Inspiration at 9+1.

Cuilan · Sep 11, 2009, 06:35 PM // 18:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxxfury

So? we came to the conclusion that:

Mesmers got the shaft in pve

All the fun stuff is easier and cheaper to run on a necro

"We" being a few forum posters of a single forum.

Daesu · Sep 12, 2009, 03:31 AM // 03:31

Here is brief summary of what I have observed from the mesmer FD build ideas presented on this thread.

FD is highly conditional. With all the power creep that has happened, PvE has becomes a fast moving game even in HM. Even though Daze is an awesome condition against casters, it takes time to fulfill the 2 conditions requirement needed to trigger it so we tend to gravitate towards PvE skill shouts to get to the fastest way to trigger daze from FD. But using shouts makes having fast casting less relevant, although fast casting does help a little with the 2s cast time of FD.

Even with fast casting, the mesmer is also not designed to be a spell spammer, especially for spells costing 10e or more, because of the need to use energy management skills. In the FD build example, I have to bring along 2 energy management spells because of the spamming nature of the build. This means sacrificing skill slots and potential DPS when the mesmer is busy trying to gain back some lost energy.

For the current PvE meta, the necros are more suitable to run such build because they have built-in passive energy management and if needed, the Soul Reaping line has a fast casting, fast recharge signet in the form of SoLS which mesmers do not have access to.

draxynnic · Sep 12, 2009, 01:17 PM // 13:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

I'm not sure what the later bit of that paragraph is saying there. Dedicating one party member to a condition build with Fevered Dreams is one thing, but having a second one just to augment that is a waste.

Basically, the thoughts behind that was: in the current meta, you're probably going to want a curses necro anyway. Given that you have one, said Curses Necro can throw Weakness and Cracked Armour into the mix, while the Me/E mandragor can toss in conditions that the Necro can't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxxfury

Mesmers got the shaft in pve

All the fun stuff is easier and cheaper to run on a necro

The Ap stuff is equally or better run on necro do to the nec having some solid skills thats arent pve(point's at mop/barbs/rigor yada yada) also due to Sr.

And the Mes supposed pug friendly shining light of Vor is pants!(REactive blahh)

Pretty much.

The second is why I think ANet should try to draw a much clearer line between the Mesmer and Necromancer in GW2. The fuzzy line we have now has essentially ended up (although probably not by design) with Necromancers getting the best stuff in the overlap. Reactive hexes? Necros get SS and SV. Miss-chance hexes? Necros get Reckless Haste (which, incidentally, comboes well with certain reactive hexes in ways that other miss-chance hexes don't). Adding Soul Reaping into the mix just adds insult to injury. Since Necromancers have a larger range of other stuff they can do, I would advise resolving the overlap in the favour of the Necromancers. (Heck, my Necro rarely uses anything in the overlap.)

The third, I disagree with. MoP is good, but being able to throw out twice as many assassins is also good. The AP Necro is, however, behaving a little bit more like a Necro.

The fourth was a bit of a slap in the face really. I can see the problem in PvP, but in PvE VoR was a) one of the few Mesmer elites that even came close to competing with the all-powerful AP and b) probably still strictly weaker than SS. Nerfing it so that it basically anti-synergised with the entire profession was... a bit heavy-handed.

(One thing I really hope right now is that if they're looking at hitting AP, that they give PvE Mesmers a serious line of buffs first. Killing AP at this stage of the game probably would pretty much finish them off, at least when it comes to HM PUGs. While I like my Mesmer heroes, part of that is because they have the interrupt reflexes to have a chance at interrupting HM foes...)

upier · Sep 13, 2009, 12:11 AM // 00:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

(One thing I really hope right now is that if they're looking at hitting AP, that they give PvE Mesmers a serious line of buffs first. Killing AP at this stage of the game probably would pretty much finish them off, at least when it comes to HM PUGs. While I like my Mesmer heroes, part of that is because they have the interrupt reflexes to have a chance at interrupting HM foes...)

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT?!?!?
Where did you hear THAT?!??!

Tenebrae · Sep 13, 2009, 12:28 AM // 00:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

Killing AP at this stage of the game probably would pretty much finish them off, at least when it comes to HM PUGs. While I like my Mesmer heroes, part of that is because they have the interrupt reflexes to have a chance at interrupting HM foes...)

Dear god is so far away from being truth that you should make a sci-fi gw movie.

Mesmers are impressive versatile and great source of counter-X thing on PvE , i can tell you , if theres one single zone you cant do with a mesmer on HM , please delete your char. We know is one of the hardest class to play with but that doesnt mean that the reason is that they are bad.

....killing or nerfing a sin elite skill will finish a mesmer on HM .... that did actually make me put this face

O_o

draxynnic · Sep 13, 2009, 06:19 AM // 06:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT?!?!?
Where did you hear THAT?!??!

I didn't. However, the Live Team has said that they tend to look at builds and skills that start to become ubiquitous, and AP is becoming the default for Curses Necros and Mesmers. The former would survive even if AP got Smiter's Booned. The latter, not so much.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

Dear god is so far away from being truth that you should make a sci-fi gw movie.
Mesmers are impressive versatile and great source of counter-X thing on PvE , i can tell you , if theres one single zone you cant do with a mesmer on HM , please delete your char. We know is one of the hardest class to play with but that doesnt mean that the reason is that they are bad.

....killing or nerfing a sin elite skill will finish a mesmer on HM .... that did actually make me put this face O_o

*sigh*

Tenebrae, have you been reading through this thread at all? There are two contexts you may want to note: First, I've been defending Mesmers, even without AP (I've done H/H vanquishes with two or three Mesmers in the party). Second, as people are fond of saying, most of PvE is easy. Third, most things a Mesmer can do, a Necromancer can do better, and the rest can be distributed among other group members. Fourth, PUGs are less about how strong a profession actually is and how it is perceived.

Put those together, and if canned mandragor builds do indeed work fine on N/Mes, the AP build is the only one that really competes in a meaningful fashion (and even then it's a fairly narrow lead). The second point means that, yes, you CAN still succeed with a Mesmer even if the profession is demonstrably weaker than others. The third and fourth points, however, mean that in any PUG where any group optimisation beyond the basic "make sure you have a decent backline" really matters... well, would YOU put a profession that you see as substandard anywhere but the bottom of your list of preferences?

This is something I've seen in action. At least once, since the VoR nerf, I've been invited into a party and then, about a minute later, surreptitiously dropped. I wasn't taking up the slot for a second Monk, there were no requests for bar pinging or anything to suggest that they didn't like my setup specifically, not even any chatter about someone wanting to bring a friend along, and I don't think I was the most recent joiner and thus the logical one to drop on that basis anyway - the only explanation I could think of was because they'd realised that I was a Mesmer and the party leader thought Mesmers were useless.

Was the party leader wrong? I think so, and unless you're just trolling, you evidently do too. However, the more tricks and tools primary Mesmers lose, the less unjustified that attitude will be.

Tenebrae · Sep 13, 2009, 01:15 PM // 13:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

Tenebrae, have you been reading through this thread at all? There are two contexts you may want to note: First, I've been defending Mesmers, even without AP (I've done H/H vanquishes with two or three Mesmers in the party).

Oh , the whole thread ? no , but dont need to. "Even without AP" ? i dont think AP has to be on "the ecuation" at all .

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

Second, as people are fond of saying, most of PvE is easy. Third, most things a Mesmer can do, a Necromancer can do better, and the rest can be distributed among other group members. Fourth, PUGs are less about how strong a profession actually is and how it is perceived.

Second : I never said otherwise
Third : Dont think so but there are things 1 can do that the other cant , thats not the point.
Fourth : I dont care about PUGS , if any1 did , all ppl on UW would be permas and so on. That doesnt mean anything , like Dr House said "ppl sux" .

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

well, would YOU put a profession that you see as substandard anywhere but the bottom of your list of preferences?

Like i said before , pugs are not reliable and so does its opinion. The thing is that if you see it substandart ofc you shouldnt choose instead other options but the reality may differ from one person to another and preferences =\= reality . This thread is not about that , its about playing a hard class to play. Its hard not because its bad or substandart , its because its versatilty. A 1 handed monkey can play an ele succesfully but does that mean Ele is an uberpowerful class ? nah , maths like that dont match.

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

This is something I've seen in action. At least once, since the VoR nerf, I've been invited into a party and then,~~ bla bla PUG Experience bla bla ~~ the only explanation I could think of was because they'd realised that I was a Mesmer and the party leader thought Mesmers were useless.

Some party leader did that .... and so ? doesnt matter at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

Was the party leader wrong? I think so, and unless you're just trolling, you evidently do too. However, the more tricks and tools primary Mesmers lose, the less unjustified that attitude will be.

I am not , but you should watch carefully what you say. AP is not a Primary mesmer tool , not at all , and whatever happens to that skill will affect primary mesmers the SAME way it will affect rest of classes ( except A maybe ). Because someone disagree with you doesnt mean he/she is trolling , no matter in what context that sentence i quoted was , its totally way out of sense imo ( and upier thinks so too ). If you dont like my opinion , soz , but i aint going to change my mind about AP nerf and "the way this class has to be played" ( for thread topic ).

Shadowmere · Sep 13, 2009, 07:36 PM // 19:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

The second is why I think ANet should try to draw a much clearer line between the Mesmer and Necromancer in GW2. The fuzzy line we have now has essentially ended up (although probably not by design) with Necromancers getting the best stuff in the overlap. Reactive hexes? Necros get SS and SV. Miss-chance hexes? Necros get Reckless Haste (which, incidentally, comboes well with certain reactive hexes in ways that other miss-chance hexes don't). Adding Soul Reaping into the mix just adds insult to injury. Since Necromancers have a larger range of other stuff they can do, I would advise resolving the overlap in the favour of the Necromancers. (Heck, my Necro rarely uses anything in the overlap.)

This is very true curses has always been a bit fuzzy compared to mesmer abilities. My view of it was always that mesmers were more focused on caster hate where curses necros were more focused on physical hate, obviously it isn't the case as both sides have skills that deal with both types. I would hope it would be more defined in GW2 as well, but I also get the feeling the whole class system will be very different then. But that's another story entirely.

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

The fourth was a bit of a slap in the face really. I can see the problem in PvP, but in PvE VoR was a) one of the few Mesmer elites that even came close to competing with the all-powerful AP and b) probably still strictly weaker than SS. Nerfing it so that it basically anti-synergised with the entire profession was... a bit heavy-handed.

(One thing I really hope right now is that if they're looking at hitting AP, that they give PvE Mesmers a serious line of buffs first. Killing AP at this stage of the game probably would pretty much finish them off, at least when it comes to HM PUGs. While I like my Mesmer heroes, part of that is because they have the interrupt reflexes to have a chance at interrupting HM foes...)

I really doubt AP will come under fire, honestly it's a brilliant skill; it's actually quite difficult to use effectively as a primary assassin so it's mostly used by secondary assassins, most of which only use AP and no other Deadly Arts or Sin skills. this locks in their secondary profession (no hard res, etc.) it also is very ineffective in PvP (imbalance in pvp is the main reason most skills get nerfed in the first place) as it's difficult to reliably spike down targets in most PvP formats.