Curse

Cuilan · Nov 15, 2009, 04:22 PM // 16:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

You can't discuss the best option when the rest of the team is running crap.

Or the group is set up differently.

upier · Nov 15, 2009, 05:41 PM // 17:41

If the party "build" is just a random selection of builds that do not work together - they are running crap.

maxxfury · Nov 15, 2009, 08:57 PM // 20:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

If the party "build" is just a random selection of builds that do not work together - they are running crap.

yeah bro! many forget a build consists of 64 skills (or 96) NOT 8.

Although it must be noted in certain situations some builds are more effective "plug and play" stand alone bars, for the "pug" situation where there is little to no party synergy.

Example: the Me/a sin spammer will likely get more mileage in that kind of team than a N/a Mop nuker, due to the Mop been more a team oriented fully synergised bar. And the Echo sin spammer not 'needing' the same degree of co ordination to run at close to best effectivness. Where as the Mop looses a LOT of its power without some phys/spears/minions to proc the focus target.

Cuilan · Nov 15, 2009, 10:33 PM // 22:33

One is good in both situations and the other is good in one. Hmm.

The Josip · Nov 16, 2009, 12:01 AM // 00:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_jos

When finishing the storyline there is nothing wrong with mesmer, even in Hard Mode. If you consider that 'later in the game' you are right.

However, I consider the elite areas and vanquishing to be 'later in the game'. And most of those areas rely on mechanics that don't support a mainly single target profession.

Who cares. I've played a lot in 8-mesmer teams that were mostly doing vanquishing and dungeons, or HM missions. Occasionally the team was progressing so well that I had to check if we're really in HM.

Yes there are professions that ANet designed on purpose to be good in PvE, giving them overpowered skills etc, and as you can see they even gave assassin's insane PvE stuff so people don't complain. Mesmer didn't have that luxury, mesmer didn't get PvE pack. But regardless, GW being so old as it is, does anyone really want to spend their playing time clicking 1-2-3 on "the most optimal PvE skillbar"?

I've played a lot with different professions and I always come back to mesmer even in PvE because creativity is what matters in the long term. The best PvE profession isn't the one with the strongest skillbar but the one with most creative and fun skillbar. And mesmer ranks pretty high up there. At the end of a day, if I really need that uber skillbar, I can arcane echo ebon assassins and spam them with AP.

My only complaint is that male mesmers are gay. I miss the style and impression Dervish gives me when I play with him in FoW armor. Female mesmers on the other hand have amazing clothes.

maxxfury · Nov 16, 2009, 01:11 AM // 01:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

One is good in both situations and the other is good in one. Hmm.

But the N/a mop nuker has a MUCH higher potential output when synergised.
Thats the point of highly synergised bars..

Even in a 'pug style' team, the Mop'er can with his own spear and Evas out put massive damage and utility, But to reach its potential you need some phys/minions/spears. The Mes sin spammer reaches its own potential without the other team members..but its potential output is lower.

draxynnic · Nov 16, 2009, 07:37 AM // 07:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxxfury

But the N/a mop nuker has a MUCH higher potential output when synergised.
Thats the point of highly synergised bars..

Even in a 'pug style' team, the Mop'er can with his own spear and Evas out put massive damage and utility, But to reach its potential you need some phys/minions/spears. The Mes sin spammer reaches its own potential without the other team members..but its potential output is lower.

This is pretty much what I was about to say. I've ran N/A MoP-sinpammers on fairly unoptimised hero/hench builds (for a while, I hadn't even bothered getting a curses scar) and I'd say the character was at least of similar effectiveness to the Me/A. Less assassins, but on the other hand, no Arcane Echo downtime to worry about, no need to worry about extra energy management like Auspicious Incantation, and more and better options of things to do once the Assassin has been sent out and "Finish Him!" isn't ready - options that actually allow you to behave as a Necromancer rather than a PvE-skill spammer. While I enjoy my Mesmer, I have no illusions that she is objectively superior to the equivalent Necromancer build even without a synergised party.

However, the OP was asking in the context of looking to use the more subtle forms of magic, and assassin spamming isn't that. Unfortunately, though, the Mesmer has been betrayed twice (and thrice when you go to Hard Mode) when it comes to PvE. First is that the subtler means are often just completely pointless compared to the speed at which a less subtle profession could just kill the foe you're Mesmerising. Second is that, apart from interrupts, most of the subtle things a Mesmer can do is better done by a Necromancer (although they can afford to ignore many of them due to the first betrayal). The third is that in Hard Mode, you need really, really good reflexes in order to make interrupting work. The best bet, at the high end, is to go with the mandragor condition-spread build, even if at first glance it seems more suited conceptually to the Necromancer. Or just reroll as a Necromancer. Hopefully, in GW2 ANet will have learned from their mistakes and the Mesmer will be brought back to equality with the others.

For the OP:

If the above doesn't put you off - if you're starting in Nightfall, Extend Conditions (which can be found just outside Yohlon Haven in Marga Coast) is probably the best early one to go for if you can get some good conditions to go with it (Blind and Daze will pretty much shut down physical and caster groups respectively. Other conditions are basically gravy). It's also one of the favoured elites for the mandragor-in-a-can condition-spread build (the other being Fevered Dreams, which you won't get until late in Prophecies). All of the Mesmer elites in Vabbi apart from Crippling Anguish have their followers (Air of Disenchantment, however, is a fairly specialised option for enchantment-related problems). Signet of Illusions can also be useful for experimenting with builds that have skills from a wide range of attributes - common wisdom is that doing so generally isn't worth losing your elite skill, but it can be fun to experiment with nonetheless.

Mesmers have, as you've noticed, been short-changed on energy. This might even be regarded as a fourth betrayal (although, chronologically speaking, it would be the third, as it predates Hard Mode) - the system Mesmers had for managing energy was, unlike that of the Elementalist and Necromancer, available to (be abused by) other professions, and has been nerfed to death as a result. Taking a couple of the energy-gaining Inspiration skills can still make a difference, however - while another common option for Mesmers that don't require another secondary profession is to take an Elementalist secondary and use the Glyph of Lesser Energy.