Curse

rkhanna · Nov 13, 2009, 01:08 AM // 01:08

Hi Guys,

Just picked up Guild Wars since it was available for cheap recently, and I've really been getting into it...although I must say its more than a little confusing...

I've been wanting to try mesmers, because I was very much into the whole subtle magic thing when I played DnD games like Neverwinter Nights & Baldurs Gate...but I've been told in the game that they are very weak? Is that true?

I wanted to ideally make a character that I can use in teams with people to do group missions etc and be useful to my guild when they do certain activities. I'm still puttering around the starter area, trying to decide whether I should commit, or not.

What do you think? Any opinions, both for & against would be helpful.

Cuilan · Nov 13, 2009, 01:52 AM // 01:52

Someone will likely mention how they're great at PvP and that there's a sticky guide in this forum for playing mesmer.

Anyway, since it sounds like mesmer will be your starter profession...be prepared learn what enemies should be dealt with first, why, and how to make or load a build that is best for an area. The official Guild Wars wiki has pages for explorable areas (see link). In most cases you won't need to, but they list enemies and what skills they have.

Another problem is most players rely on a site called PvX for builds and are unable to tell the difference from a good build and bad. Because most people don't understand how to play with mesmers or create builds for them...you may be put in awkward positions where you must defend your profession of choice and how you play. In-game you can convince any group of anything if you sound confident and well spoken.

Mesmers are an excellent condition spreader and damage profession in PvE. Many of their damage builds also include support in addition to your goal. They can farm (solo fighting for items/material) and easily handle elite areas.

noneedforclevernames · Nov 13, 2009, 01:55 AM // 01:55

Empathy, Visions of Regret, Backfire, You Move Like a Dwarf, Pain Inverter, A few energy management skills and then mesmer is absolutely brainless and effective in pve. gl hf

Sam6555 · Nov 13, 2009, 02:05 AM // 02:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by noneedforclevernames

Empathy, Visions of Regret, Backfire, You Move Like a Dwarf, Pain Inverter, A few energy management skills and then mesmer is absolutely brainless and effective in pve. gl hf

Considering he/she's new.

Captain Bulldozer · Nov 13, 2009, 02:09 AM // 02:09

A lot of people will likely tell you that mesmers are weak. That's entirely untrue. What is true is that mesmers can be one of the hardest professions to play effectively. This is mostly because you need to have a good understanding of all or most existing skills, the various professions, and most of the builds found on individual foes across all of GW. One you have that experience and understanding, mesmers can truly tip the balance in virtually any fight. This is especially so in PvP, but is true in PvE as well. BEfore you have that experience, be prepared to pick yourself up off the ground a lot as a mesmer.

So in short, as a new player I'd probably recommend you pick something like Elementalist or Warrior, as those are professions with a much easier learning curve. Ranger and Necromancer are also fairly easy to learn. Monk and Mesmer are the hardest of the core professions to play well, so it might be a good idea to save those for later. If you have any of the other campaigns, assasssin, ritualist, dervish and Paragon are all fairly friendly to new players. Good luck and welcome to guild wars!

Rhadamanthys · Nov 13, 2009, 02:25 AM // 02:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Bulldozer

A lot of people will likely tell you that mesmers are weak. That's entirely untrue. What is true is that mesmers can be one of the hardest professions to play effectively. This is mostly because you need to have a good understanding of all or most existing skills, the various professions, and most of the builds found on individual foes across all of GW. One you have that experience and understanding, mesmers can truly tip the balance in virtually any fight. This is especially so in PvP, but is true in PvE as well. BEfore you have that experience, be prepared to pick yourself up off the ground a lot as a mesmer.

So in short, as a new player I'd probably recommend you pick something like Elementalist or Warrior, as those are professions with a much easier learning curve. Ranger and Necromancer are also fairly easy to learn. Monk and Mesmer are the hardest of the core professions to play well, so it might be a good idea to save those for later. If you have any of the other campaigns, assasssin, ritualist, dervish and Paragon are all fairly friendly to new players. Good luck and welcome to guild wars!

What this guy said.

I have 10 characters (one for each profession) and the mesmer was the last one I created. However, after creating her, I realized just how bad ass mesmers were especially in Hard Mode. They are one of the best at dealing armor-ignoring damage which is crucial in Hard Mode. Also, they are one of the best at taking advantage of the game's stupid AI. Just slap something like Backfire or Empathy on a bad guy and watch him kill himself in a couple of seconds.

But like Bulldozer said, get familiar with the game first, then start a mesmer.

The Drunkard · Nov 13, 2009, 04:19 AM // 04:19

A mesmer shines when the other side plays stupidly. I'd strongly reccomend reading Captain Bulldozer's post, since mesmers have a much different style of playing than just straight up damage. Getting the hang of the game a first time around will help you understand more of what a mesmer should do.You also need a decent comp and quick reflexes if you want to play them properly.

As far as team goes, many groups don't use mesmers aside from cry of pain/ray of judgement. If you don't already have a guild I strongly reccomend getting one since most normal guilds are open to all professions. Or you can just get heroes since they don't discriminate.

It's not an easy class, but it always puts a smile on my face when I can completly shutdown other players.

rkhanna · Nov 13, 2009, 06:52 AM // 06:52

Well...I have all the campaigns so skills are not a worry...it was that boxed complete collection thing.

I've been using empathy & backfire so far...working well...but energy is a pain. Do mesmers always have such low energy? A guy in game was telling me to roll necro because they get great energy.

Also, what are some good elite skills to get for a nightfall mesmer?

Bob Slydell · Nov 13, 2009, 08:01 AM // 08:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkhanna

Well...I have all the campaigns so skills are not a worry...it was that boxed complete collection thing.

I've been using empathy & backfire so far...working well...but energy is a pain. Do mesmers always have such low energy? A guy in game was telling me to roll necro because they get great energy.

Also, what are some good elite skills to get for a nightfall mesmer?

I would stick with Mesmer. Every class has a unique attribute, specific to that class, and you do not get that attribute from the secondary of that class, just of your main. Necromancer was most likely suggested because of Soul Reaping. But trust me, stick with Mesmer. They have fast casting, which can be versatile for Elementalist or Necro Secondaries (since these couple classes tend to have spells with a long cast time) and the real bread and butter for Mesmer e-management is in their Inspiration attribute line. Lots of skills in Inspiration magic grand you energy after for example, successfully intrrupting a foe or stripping an enchantment from foe..etc etc...

If anything the Mesmer is probably better at gaining energy than the Necromancer given that Necros only have SR and at that once every so often (it used to be after every death in the Necro's range, but nerfed) as well as it depending on the rank when Mesmers have an entire skill line dedicated to energy management. You can of course use inspiration magic on a mesmer secondary..but the point here is to get you to keep the mesmer for Fast Casting and also get use out of the great e-management skills at the same time if you are worried about energy.

upier · Nov 13, 2009, 08:47 AM // 08:47

If you want efficiency - then the mesmer isn't the guy for you.
But do not kid yourself - being new, your lack of experience will be the bigger factor in why you are performing in a sub-par fashion than the mesmer. Which means that ANY guy you start now will be sub-par.
So I suggest going with the guy you think you'll have the most fun with. You need to learn the basics and you should have fun doing it.

(Also if you are in for the subtlety, try a necro. The Cursing line is SUPERB for that!)

HigherMinion · Nov 13, 2009, 10:24 AM // 10:24

Mesmer will seem good now, but later in the game they become weak and only used for interrupting the enemy's key skills. Most of the damage spells are done over time and expect the enemy to do something in order to activate the hex's damage.

This is bad, so maybe another approach would be best while you're still new. elementalists are ok if you want damage, energy management and versatility with your skills.

The Josip · Nov 13, 2009, 11:07 AM // 11:07

As soon as you get to lvl20 with your mesmer, try unlocking Deldrimor War Camp outpost in southern shiverpeaks (Prophecies campaign). There's usually an all-mesmer meeting every Saturday at 21:00 GMT. I think you'll find it more fun than just going alone around. It would help you have more outposts unlocked though, who knows what they will decide to do each time :>

---

As for Mesmer itself - although Mesmer has always been my favorite class, being a Mesmer in PvE means you will probably not be using the most fun and unique skills mesmer class has to offer. That's not a reason not to play a mesmer in PvE.. I have one. It's just that I always felt my creativity with that class is severely limited compared to PvP.

As for how strong mesmer is in PvE.. let's put it this way: you will be able to do kill more or less as fast as everyone else, with the right builds. What Upier is talking about is a situation where you want to optimize your efficiency 100%.. but that is not necessary to go through the game. That's something old players can debate about, but not something a casual or new player should be concerned with IMO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

Mesmer will seem good now, but later in the game they become weak

That's not true at all. As a matter of fact, I'd say some other classes have it easier in the beginning.

Xenomortis · Nov 13, 2009, 12:20 PM // 12:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Josip

That's not true at all. As a matter of fact, I'd say some other classes have it easier in the beginning.

I agree.
Unless you count Conjure Phantasm on level 2 Skales or something...

the_jos · Nov 13, 2009, 12:37 PM // 12:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Josip

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion
Mesmer will seem good now, but later in the game they become weak

That's not true at all. As a matter of fact, I'd say some other classes have it easier in the beginning.

When finishing the storyline there is nothing wrong with mesmer, even in Hard Mode. If you consider that 'later in the game' you are right.

However, I consider the elite areas and vanquishing to be 'later in the game'. And most of those areas rely on mechanics that don't support a mainly single target profession.
Besides, many skills from the mesmer line work great to pressure human players but AI doesn't care about this kind of pressure. AI continues to use skills and attack anyway.
From this perspective I'd say HigherMinion is right.

Then we have this thing called team. Team is what matters. If a team can work more efficient with a mesmer take a mesmer. If another profession is more efficient take that other profession.
And last it's the player who makes the difference. A good player can play a 'weak' profession better than a bad player can play a 'strong' profession.

The reason I think mesmer is on the weaker side of the professions?
Assume the mesmer to be a very delicate tool. Can pick apart things like a watch with great care. Excellent. However, if the sole purpose is to pick apart a watch and not repairing it you can also use a sledge hammer. One bash and the watch is broken. This is what's PvE is like 'later in the game'.

Cuilan · Nov 13, 2009, 04:41 PM // 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

If you want efficiency - then the mesmer isn't the guy for you.

No offense intended sir, but builds you've posted in the past aren't very good.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

elementalists are ok if you want damage

Was there some huge skill update today that I missed?

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_jos

AI continues to use skills and attack anyway.

That's actually either good thing or a neutral thing. Not a negative.

upier · Nov 13, 2009, 05:10 PM // 17:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

No offense intended sir, but builds you've posted in the past aren't very good.

Absolutely!
And that's simply based on the fact that my guy can not compete with other options, so I at least try to have fun with him and try to remind myself that you don't need to play at your most effective to win PvE.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Josip

As for Mesmer itself - although Mesmer has always been my favorite class, being a Mesmer in PvE means you will probably not be using the most fun and unique skills mesmer class has to offer. That's not a reason not to play a mesmer in PvE.. I have one. It's just that I always felt my creativity with that class is severely limited compared to PvP.

Yes, yes, YES!

maxxfury · Nov 15, 2009, 02:07 AM // 02:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Absolutely!
And that's simply based on the fact that my guy can not compete with other options, so I at least try to have fun with him and try to remind myself that you don't need to play at your most effective to win PvE.

Unless you run an Sin's Promise bar with Arcane Echo'd sin's and some over powered shouts or cop. Which holds its own above any other class Running anything similar. *barring the Mop nuker Necro, but that hammers any bar into the ground with some spears/minions/phys around. But that needs synergizing more to get the effect.

But yeah..messing around with FUN bars is win :P i meant its not like we always wanna be 100% optimized

upier · Nov 15, 2009, 07:47 AM // 07:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxxfury

Unless you run an Sin's Promise bar with Arcane Echo'd sin's and some over powered shouts or cop. Which holds its own above any other class Running anything similar. *barring the Mop nuker Necro, but that hammers any bar into the ground with some spears/minions/phys around. But that needs synergizing more to get the effect.

But yeah..messing around with FUN bars is win :P i meant its not like we always wanna be 100% optimized

When discussing the best options, team synergy is a given.

Cuilan · Nov 15, 2009, 01:01 PM // 13:01

He/she is saying that they require it.

upier · Nov 15, 2009, 01:53 PM // 13:53

You can't discuss the best option when the rest of the team is running crap.
That's why it doesn't matter that the MoP-nukers demands a specific team build. A complementing team build is a given.

And that's also why all the criticism of the mesmers that is said here matters so little. You aren't always running a full human party, you aren't high on consumables, you do not have summons tagging along nor does everyone always have maxed titles. And if you aren't running that - you are running something sub-par by default. And then it really doesn't matter that it's a bit worse because you used a mesmer instead of a necro.