Curse

Cuilan · Feb 24, 2010, 08:33 PM // 20:33

What are your views on managing energy on a mesmer Fevered Dreams build?

What do you think can be done to maintain energy for it better and would better energy have you use such a build over a necromancer version?

Gift3d · Feb 24, 2010, 09:14 PM // 21:14

Idunno dude, that's a tough call. I'd probably have to go with the same exact inspiration skills used to manage energy on every single other mesmer build in the game, now that i think about it.

mage767 · Feb 24, 2010, 10:00 PM // 22:00

Just use:

Auspicious Incantation + Ethereal Burden

Best combination, as I use on my FD build

FoxBat · Feb 24, 2010, 10:06 PM // 22:06

The old standbys auspicious + deep freeze or auspicious + chillblains will get about the same energy but have a marginally more useful AoE effect.

Chthon · Feb 24, 2010, 11:20 PM // 23:20

I'm never quite satisfied with the energy on these. Right now, I'm using EBurden + Drain Delusions. It's much more suited to AP (in which case it is truly insane), but it works OK enough for FD too.

After this next update, I may be changing over to Me/Rt (or perhaps Rt/Me...) given the broad array of conditions Channeling will be able to produce. The obvious candidate for the energy source would be siphon.

maxxfury · Feb 25, 2010, 01:38 AM // 01:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

I

After this next update, I may be changing over to Me/Rt (or perhaps Rt/Me...) given the broad array of conditions Channeling will be able to produce. The obvious candidate for the energy source would be siphon.

maybe i should check the notes again

*edit* gaze from beyond looks like a perfect fit! blind + channeling fitting siphon....niice.

On topic i use drain delusions with either gole, burden, pdrain dependin on whats around the zone and how lazy i am..

Chthon · Feb 25, 2010, 04:37 AM // 04:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxxfury

maybe i should check the notes again

*edit* gaze from beyond looks like a perfect fit! blind + channeling fitting siphon....niice.

And Spirit Burn will get a longish burn time and Spirit Rift will crack armor (though I'm not sure I'd run that over or in addition to Finish Him). And, if there's still room on the bar somewhere, Ancestor's is going to be ridiculous.

Theorycraft bar:
1. Fevered
2. Frag
3. YMLAD
4. Finish Him
5. Gaze From Beyond
6. Spirit Burn
7. Destruction/Vampirism
8. Spirit Siphon

Energy might be tight...

Theorycraft bar #2:
1. EC
2. YMLAD
3. Finish Him
4. Gaze From Beyond
5. Spirit Burn
6. Destruction/Vampirism
7. Spirit Siphon
8. Ancestors (or another e-management skill)

#2 looks like it would go better on a Rt/Me than a Me/Rt....

Cuilan · Feb 25, 2010, 08:47 AM // 08:47

I normally run spiritway and there is generally ritualists all over the place. So...

Xenomortis · Feb 25, 2010, 11:22 AM // 11:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

What do you think can be done to maintain energy for it better and would better energy have you use such a build over a necromancer version?

The Necromancer has the advantage that he doesn't need to use a skill-slot of strong energy management and by taking one energy management skill, he can spam most of his skills fairly mindlessly to keep pressuring all the time.

Unless one Mesmer energy management skill can match that, the bonuses of being a mesmer don't match up to that cost in my view. With two energy management skills, you can do fairly well, but you've lost another skill.

Although if the update brings in those new skills, Me/Rt might work nicely. Although I doubt Spirit Siphon will be enough (you can't spam it on one spirit). You also become more dependent on a spirit that can easily die.
If you have a spirit spammer in your team already that doesn't need Siphon, then it may work very well.

As a Me/Rt you lose weakness and GFB doesn't have maintainable blind (but serves as a reliable condition to trigger FD). Just something to take note of.

Cuilan · Feb 25, 2010, 12:34 PM // 12:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

As a Me/Rt you lose weakness

Regardless of what you think of the skill, you can run You Are All Weaklings.

Ash Blast does last longer...

Xenomortis · Feb 25, 2010, 12:58 PM // 12:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

Regardless of what you think of the skill, you can run You Are All Weaklings.

Oh yes, of course you can.
I forgot that; odd because I that's how my Mesmer gets the condition too... (ele weakness skills suck).
The downside is that you can't then take CoP then (decent damage + pressure + unconditional interrupt you sometimes want).

If the rit skill update goes ahead has suggested, then I'd be inclined to say the Me/Rt variant will outperform the Me/E or Me/N variants if there is already a spirit spammer in your team that does not need Siphon (heroes need energy management).
I doubt it will exceed the Nec variant in my view, but it depends on just how much energy Siphon kicks out (if it matches Soul Reaping + SoLS somehow, then the Blindness can win out).

Chthon · Feb 25, 2010, 10:10 PM // 22:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

As a Me/Rt you lose weakness and GFB doesn't have maintainable blind (but serves as a reliable condition to trigger FD). Just something to take note of.

1. Weakness is largely redundant with blind. If I get blind, I can live without weakness.

2. Most of my teams usually have Enfeebling Blood somewhere anyway.

3. Ash Blast' blind isn't really maintainable either after you take into account the recharge on YMLAD and the awkwardness of coordinating the FD chain onto fresh targets. If I really wanted to make sure I was maintaining the blind, I'd use EC instead of FD.

4. The biggest reasons I'm excited about GfB are:
4A: It reduces the likelihood of my chain getting broken. With YMLAD+Ash Blast, there's a danger of the foe getting killed in between the 2 skills, or of the user miscalculating their energy (or getting drained) and not being able to Ash Blast on time, or of the user simply being interrupted. All of those result in having to wait out YMLAD's recharge before you get another try at blinding. Conversely, while your spirit can get killed, it's not particularly likely.
4B: It reduces the energy cost of renewing the blind. I like the cripple on YMLAD at the start of the engagement. It does a great job of keeping the monsters in AoE range and convincing their melee to settle for attacking my melee instead of heading for my backlines. But once aggro has settled and the priority monsters are starting to die off, cripple's value falls substantially. At that point, YMLAD+Ash Blast basically becomes a 15e blind. GfB would allow me to reduce that to a 5e blind.

Anywho, we'll see how it performs after the update.

The Drunkard · Feb 25, 2010, 10:17 PM // 22:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

1. Weakness is largely redundant with blind. If I get blind, I can live without weakness.

Weakness helps to stop casters from wtfpwning you...though you do have daze in the bar so you bring up a good point.

Anyway, here's the bar I use and it works quite well.

FD
Frag.
GoI
Steam
You are all weaklings!
Finish him!
either sig/drain enchant/pve skill
auspicious (for FD ONLY!)

I use a modified discord build so poison and bleeding are also a part of my team setup.

Xenomortis · Feb 25, 2010, 10:42 PM // 22:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Drunkard

Weakness helps to stop casters from wtfpwning you...though you do have daze in the bar so you bring up a good point.

No it doesn't. Well, it kind of does but not for the reasons I suspect you think. More specifically, enfeeble can help prevent a caster wtfpwning you because it's a 1/4 second cast and on a FD bar it becomes an interrupt. The damage reduction weakness causes a caster is limited to the -1 to all atts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

1. Weakness is largely redundant with blind. If I get blind, I can live without weakness.

As you say, the blind is maintainable. But yes, with both on your bar they do tread on each other's toes, but blind has bigger boots.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

3. Ash Blast' blind isn't really maintainable either after you take into account the recharge on YMLAD and the awkwardness of coordinating the FD chain onto fresh targets.

Ash Blast is cast on the 2nd second of YMLAD's recharge. At a 9 sec duration it is maintainable (but a 7 spec might be annoying to get).
No, the blind probably won't be maintained, but when you aren't dampening enemy physicals with anything else, when the blind is off you can really feel it. Most of the time it isn't an issue.

Don't get me wrong; I'm not saying AB is better than GFB.
I'm not convinced by your arguments vs AB though. YMLAD is a shout, it's instantly activating. I can activate it at the same time as AB - it is very unlikely I'm going to be drained of energy in that time. Similarly, it is not too likely a target is going to die, especially since you wouldn't really want to perform the chain on a near dead target.
Better arguments are the necessary 15e cost for the combo and the fact your target must not be immune to knockdowns.
GFB only requires 10e (assuming they leave it), but has a less easily self-fulfilled condition. A spirit would be a clumsy addition to the bar.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Drunkard

FD
Frag.
GoI
Steam
You are all weaklings!
Finish him!
either sig/drain enchant/pve skill
auspicious (for FD ONLY!)

My problem with GoI+Steam is that GoI adds nothing else to the bar. Apart from allowing you to use Steam it's a fairly weak addition. Burning is not a useful condition.
Whilst it may only cost 10e vs YMALD+AB's 15e, it takes 2.75 seconds to finish the activations (3.5s total time spent vs 1.75s). Cripple is a much more useful condition that Burning and a Knockdown is always of some utility value.
The advantages are a less conditional blind at a longer recharge, but I don't feel it's enough. I would rather take YMLAD+CoP+Weakness over GoI+Steam+YMLAD.
YaaW is really redundant with Steam.

The Drunkard · Feb 26, 2010, 03:14 AM // 03:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

No it doesn't. Well, it kind of does but not for the reasons I suspect you think. More specifically, enfeeble can help prevent a caster wtfpwning you because it's a 1/4 second cast and on a FD bar it becomes an interrupt. The damage reduction weakness causes a caster is limited to the -1 to all atts.

True, I think it would be better then to leave weakness to the bots instead of putting it to my bar.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

My problem with GoI+Steam is that GoI adds nothing else to the bar. Apart from allowing you to use Steam it's a fairly weak addition. Burning is not a useful condition.

I like GoI so much because it triggers frag twice per cast and covers a condition requirement for daze. Speccing into 3 FM gives you an extra cast every time you use a spell. Yeah, burning is useless so there is no need to go beyond 3 FM.

The build I posted is better on energy than the common ymlad+ab, which is why I posted it here.

maxxfury · Feb 27, 2010, 12:45 AM // 00:45

Ashblast still feels better than GfB fro a fevered dreams bar, the 50% downtime on the blind doesnt cut it for me.

Still prefer [fevered dreams][frag][YMLAD!][ash blast][cry of pain][FH!][drain delusions][optional Eman]

But on an extend condition bar...im liking it! Can keep the blind up way past its duration. A much more micro intensive play too! which is good for people who get bored with fire and forgets and doze off a lot in vanqs:P

[Extend conditions][YMLAD!][FH!][Gaze from beyond]
[Ancestors rage][splinter weapon]
[siphon spirit][destruction] @10 channeling for breakpoints.

*edit already posted pretty much lmao...learn to read sigh..and yup, better on a rit id say with a 14+spec for channeling..and..destruction is better option than what i threw together originally^

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

No it doesn't. Well, it kind of does but not for the reasons I suspect you think. More specifically, enfeeble can help prevent a caster wtfpwning you because it's a 1/4 second cast and on a FD bar it becomes an interrupt. The damage reduction weakness causes a caster is limited to the -1 to all atts.

Actually, thats the one thing id neglected to consider when in the past id compared the me/e to me/n..sway the scales slightly more towards the me/n but i still feel get more oomph from me/e with blinds. /E covers the phys better and the /n the casters.(or N/me but thats a different discussion :P)(subjective ofc :P)

A nice flux capacitor moment there ty:P