Curse

Giro · May 22, 2010, 06:47 PM // 18:47

Old IW Mesmers were always at a disadvantage with respect to standard melee characters (War, Sin, Derv, etc.) due to their lower armor, so a lot of skills on their bars were used to increase survivability. However, with the newly buffed IW, Mesmers can survive just as well on the frontline as the standards (assuming you have at least 4 Illusion Magic skills and minimal enchantment stripping, etc.). So, the new bars can focus on offensive skills!

Which is why I need your help. A basic IW bar consists of:

[Illusionary Weaponry] {e}
["By Ural's Hammer!"]
[Flurry]

BuH is the only skill I've found that can actually increase IW's damage. I haven't tested Intensity or EBSoH, however, so I cannot comment on those.

Flurry is a cheap, maintainable 33% IAS with no draw back when using IW.

That leaves 5 skill slots to fill with Illusion Magic. My first idea, that I haven't had much chance to test yet, is this:

[Signet of Clumsiness]

A fast casting signet with AoE interupt and damage, with possible KDs.

[Calculated Risk]
[Fragility]

Relatively fast hexes to pressure enemies.

[Clumsiness]
[Wandering Eye]

Slower hexes that deal AoE damage.

The only thing I'm worrying about is the fact that an IW mesmer plays almost like a melee character (it focuses on attacking), so I'm not sure if having 1-2 sec casts (reduced with FC, but still) will distract from actually attacking and using the damage from IW. So I'm looking to improve the 5 Illusion Magic skills.

Comments? Suggestions?

Gondrakif · May 22, 2010, 07:05 PM // 19:05

[Illusionary Weaponry] + [Flurry] = W/Me or Me/W so no Intensity for you

(for the record Intensity increases IW damage)
EBSoH doesn't increase IW damage as it doesn't for any armor-ignoring damage source
As for extra spells Illusion of Weakness would be my choice

Master Mxyzptlk · May 22, 2010, 07:53 PM // 19:53

Have you tested it? I'm not sure how much trouble you'll have with energy, but I'd be concerned. At least if IW gets ripped you're not useless.

Here's the one I worked out.

12 illusion, 12 fast casting, runes as desired.

Illusionary Weaponry
Sympathetic Visage
Symbolic Celerity
Signet of Stamina
Healing Signet
Signet of Clumsiness
Mantra of Signets
Illusion of Weakness

I haven't tested it much, but its more defensive than offensive, no room for IAS, although I may drop. I've been dying to use signet of stamina with IW for a long time, and between MoS and IW you get +24 armor, +250 health, Healing Signet gives an easy 200 health.

Giro · May 22, 2010, 08:21 PM // 20:21

I haven't tested it yet, gotta get the skills still, but I was afraid of energy issues.

I like the Symbolic Celerity + Signet of Stamina combo, but I'm not a fan of tanking in PvE, but I do think IW needs a cover enchant, which I forgot about, so I'd definitely ue Illusion of Weakness.

I don't really like the 4 spells in my original build. It does give option if IW gets ripped, but I'd rather make a build focused on dealing damage/utility as a melee-type. I do like Signet of Clumsiness a lot due to the conditional KD and AoE 'rupt.

Sympathetic Visage is pretty good vs. adrenal warriors, so that is worth a spot. Monsters have crazy energy as far as I know, so the energy denial isn't terribly effective though.

I'm not crazy about Healing Sig because the only reason you need a self-heal is when you're in a tight spot and the monk can't heal you in time. But Heal Sig takes a decent time and you're at -40 armor while casting.

So with these changes, I'd use:

[Illusion of Weakness]
[Illusionary Weaponry] {e}
["By Ural's Hammer!"]
[Flurry]
[Sympathetic Visage]
[Signet of Clumsiness]

With 2 optionals. If the two optionals are filled, that gives +40 armor, totaling to 90, which is plenty to frontline with in PvE, as long as you have some decent healers.

I still don't know what to do with the optionals. Could go with my original caster-type Illusion skills for if IW gets ripped or just random usefulness. Or could go with some of your defensive skills, like Symbolic Celerity+Signet of Stamina. But I'd like to find something that works better for the IW melee-type.

Maybe phantom pain for Deep Wound or shrinking armor for Cracked Armor, and an energy-management skill?

EDIT: Mantra of Signets is also in the Inspiration Line, which you have no points in.

Winterclaw · May 22, 2010, 08:40 PM // 20:40

Enchantment stripping says hi.

I wouldn't use flurry only because if you work out it's energy cost, that would be about -3 pips energy degen to maintain it. Drunken Master would be better as you wouldn't have to go /w and you get a small movement buff.

Giro · May 22, 2010, 08:44 PM // 20:44

There's Illusion of Weakness and Sympathetic Visage as cover enchants, and I already mentioned it wouldn't work with heavy enchant stripping.

But yes, I agree about Drunken Master over Flurry if you run into energy problems.

EDIT: So what we've got now is this base bar:

http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Pv...ame=&Go=Submit

For the 2 optionals, you have the following.

Caster Type:
[Clumsiness]
[Wandering Eye]

Conditions:
[Phantom Pain]
[Shrinking Armor]

Energy-management:
[Ethereal Burden]
[Kitah's Burden]

Tanking:
[Symbolic Celerity]
[Signet of Stamina]

Master Mxyzptlk · May 22, 2010, 09:02 PM // 21:02

yeah noticed that, dropped illusion and fast casting a bit to through inspiration some points, did an 11/10/10 split.

Healing signet isnt too bad with fast casting, and on top of mantra of signets you get almost 200 health

Magragoc · May 22, 2010, 09:21 PM // 21:21

Well, if you're going to have warrior-like armor, you won't need the Illusion of Weakness; you'll be Protted like any warrior. Bring some +armor insignias and a shield, and you can use Channeling as a cover enchantment. If you're going to be in melee anyways, it should solve all of your energy problems.

Giro · May 22, 2010, 09:47 PM // 21:47

I'd rather not spec into Insp since I'm already at 12-9-9 Illusion-FC-Tact for a shield. However, if you specced 9 into Motivation instead of Tactics for a shield, you could use Leader's Zeal for a net +5 energy every 12 seconds.

AtomicMew · May 22, 2010, 09:53 PM // 21:53

Why would you do Mesmer/Warrior?

Mesmer/Assassin obviously does more damage and doesn't burn your energy like flurry.

12 dagger mastery
16 illusion

IW
Drunken Master
Optional x6

Daesu · May 22, 2010, 09:56 PM // 21:56

If you are using Drunken Master, you can go Me/N and use Celerity+SoLS as energy management if you need.

AtomicMew · May 22, 2010, 10:03 PM // 22:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

If you are using Drunken Master, you can go Me/N and use Celerity+SoLS as energy management if you need.

Defeats the purpose of going Me/A though.

Daesu · May 22, 2010, 10:11 PM // 22:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by trcvrs

Defeats the purpose of going Me/A though.

But what assassin skills are you using?

Is it worth it to max dagger mastery just for the 26% chance of double strike. You can also use a scythe to hit more than one target per swing, if you are not considering a shield.

Giro · May 22, 2010, 11:39 PM // 23:39

I went /W to get Tactics to use a 16 AL shield. And I agree, it's not worth the points in Daggers just for the double strike chance.

Celerity+SoLS is a great idea.

However, I just realized Illusion of Weakness won't cut it as a cover enchant, since it'll never be on top of IW. Any suggestions for a replacement cover enchant?

EDIT: Celerity can be used as the cover enchant!

Base bar:

http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Pv...ame=&Go=Submit

[Illusionary Weaponry] {e}
["By Ural's Hammer!"]
[Sympathetic Visage]
[Signet of Clumsiness]
[Drunken Master]

For the 3 optionals, choose from the following (Suggested to bring at least one additional Illusion Magic skill to get +20 armor out of Illusionary Weaponry).

Cover Enchantment:
[Symbolic Celerity] (Bring with Signet of Lost Souls for Energy Management or Signet of Stamina for Tanking)
[Ancestor's Visage] (Alternating with Sympathetic Visage)

AoE Damage:
[Clumsiness]
[Wandering Eye]
[Cyclone Axe] (Wield an Axe)

Conditions:
[Phantom Pain]
[Shrinking Armor]
[Deadly Riposte] (Spec into Tactics)

Energy-management:
[Ethereal Burden]
[Kitah's Burden]
[Symbolic Celerity] + [Signet of Lost Souls]
[Leader's Zeal] (Spec at least 6 into Motivation)

Tanking:
[Symbolic Celerity] + [Signet of Stamina]
[Symbolic Celerity] + [Healing Signet]
[Healing Signet] (Spec into Tactics)

Attributes (Sword/Axe with Shield):
12 + 1 + 3 Illusion Magic
9 + 1 Fast Casting
9 Tactics/Command/Motivation

Attributes (Sword/Axe/Scythe without Shield):
12 + 1 + 3 Illusion Magic
12 + 1 Fast Casting

Variants

Beast Mastery:
[Comfort Animal]
[Poisonous Bite]
[Scavenger Strike]

Earth Prayers:
[Sand Shards]
[Signet of Pious Light]
[Armor of Sanctity]

I think we've got a good list of skill now, but if anyone else has any other suggestions please say them!

Daesu · May 23, 2010, 12:24 AM // 00:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giro

EDIT: Celerity can be used as the cover enchant!

Although I like Celerity, I not am so sure if it is suitable to be a cover enchant since it has a 30s natural recharge and costs 15e, meaning it is not cheap.

If you want to go with /W your cover enchantment choices are more limited. One of them would be Channeling which also helps with your energy or Illusion of Haste. IoH is a illusion skill which is good but you have to deal with the cripple condition. Of the two, I prefer Channeling because it lasts longer.

Giro · May 23, 2010, 01:04 AM // 01:04

You're right, I agree completely. Only reason I would bring Celerity is if I was bringing SoLS or Sig of Stamina. And you can still do a 12-9-9 split and just dump 3+1 into Insp and Channeling lasts 21 secs for 5 energy with a 10.5 sec recharge (with 9+1 FC).

tghoodoo · May 23, 2010, 02:10 AM // 02:10

i used great dwarf armor as my cover enchant. works great. plus its quite beneficial for extra armor

Willow O Whisper · May 23, 2010, 02:28 AM // 02:28

Your killing the bonus added with the update by adding to many non illusion skills.. Basicly you end up with a pre update version of the skill.

AtomicMew · May 23, 2010, 03:25 AM // 03:25

12 dagger mastery is straight up, 26% more damage. There's quite literally, nothing else you can bring from other professions that will do that much for you. Since IW is a one-trick pony, you might as well be good at it.

Other benefits to Me/A - 1) daggers are way cooler than swords. 2) maintaining feigned neutrality is always fun.

If you do insist on Me/W for god knows why, you should consider Stability/flurry to make up for some ground lost to Me/A and also use as a cover enchant.

Dark Paladin X · May 23, 2010, 03:33 AM // 03:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by trcvrs

12 dagger mastery is straight up, 26% more damage. There's quite literally, nothing else you can bring from other professions that will do that much for you. Since IW is a one-trick pony, you might as well be good at it.

Other benefits to Me/A - 1) daggers are way cooler than swords. 2) maintaining feigned neutrality is always fun.

If you do insist on Me/W for god knows why, you should consider Stability/flurry to make up for some ground lost to Me/A and also use as a cover enchant.

Yeah, not to mention, with the chances of double striking + an IAS (the only one available for mesmers is Drunken Master), you will be doing a lot of damage to a single foe without worrying about blocking or missing. Daggers does have the fastest attack speed due to chances of double striking with investment of Dagger Mastery.