Curse

Swingline · Mar 02, 2011, 07:09 AM // 07:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Outerworld

Thats all well and good but why have anti-melee and anti-caster seperate when you can compress it into a single bar?

Because having all your physical and caster shutdown in a single bar is a huge disadvantage. Having anti caster and physical skills spread out across the party makes it so if one dies or becomes shutdown then you don't lose all your party's defensive capabilities.

HigherMinion · Mar 02, 2011, 09:41 AM // 09:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swingline

Because having all your physical and caster shutdown in a single bar is a huge disadvantage. Having anti caster and physical skills spread out across the party makes it so if one dies or becomes shutdown then you don't lose all your party's defensive capabilities.

Supposedly that one character won't die if it can defend itself against all types of damage. I don't think people should prepare for the worst deaths. It would gimp their team, overall.

If you use one shutdown character, two healers; the rest can run pure damage and kill faster.

maxxfury · Mar 02, 2011, 05:13 PM // 17:13

Similar issue to pure heal vs hybrid monking... Some prefer pure, some share it around!.. ppl will always be difficult

Personally, i like to rock a FD bar w/YMLAD+ashblast combo.. ESPECIALLY if i cant 'trust' the rest of my team to not be half decent.. Tho panic shines with BIG groups in "the hard areas" were you make sure your team has bases covered..

WarcryOfTruth · Mar 02, 2011, 05:29 PM // 17:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewSX

Psychic Instability beat both in largest part of PvE.

This wins the entire thread. Maybe it isn't apart of the two being discussed, but keeping foes snared and unable to do anything for four seconds is quite lovely.

Panic allows one skill through every "round" of foes skills usage, so given the option of being affected by one skill every so often, or take no damage at all for four seconds, go go Psychic Instability. To get back on topic, Fevered Dreams combines superior pressure and mitigation better than anything else I can think of. Of the two between Panic and Fevered Dreams, Dreams has the greater potential. The downside is that it does require team synergy, so pugging with it may not be as effective, and as previous stated, Panic's ease of use is why it is so common.

Xenomortis · Mar 02, 2011, 05:38 PM // 17:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarcryOfTruth

The downside is that it does require team synergy,

It doesn't. If I wanted to help carry a bad PUG on my Mes or Nec, I would run Fevered Dreams.

WarcryOfTruth · Mar 02, 2011, 05:50 PM // 17:50

I suppose, I guess I was just talking about maximizing the usefulness of the skill.

maxxfury · Mar 02, 2011, 05:56 PM // 17:56

With one FD bar you cover repeated procs of daze+interupts, cripple, deep wound, cracked armour, weakness and blind! you can even if you wanted, apply poison and burning.....

what else useful could you need a team to apply?

*weakness or blind or both to personal taste!and main prof.

PI while been good requires you to hit a rupt for the kd, so its not as on demand as panic or a dream bar..

HigherMinion · Mar 02, 2011, 06:06 PM // 18:06

Not every !!@!·$ you see is a successful interrupt either. The cry adds to the Panic lol benefit, but is essentially just as useful as Anet adding a screen-shake and dust cloud when warriors use Earthshaker.

Vazze · Mar 02, 2011, 07:17 PM // 19:17

They have different purpose. If a large mob is nicely bunched, panic with wastrels not only shuts down the entire mob but also decimates them: but this needs a tank. The thing is that the tank can and should survive whether or not you rupt foes so the only purpose of panic is to ensure that wastrels deal damage. Panic against a spread out mob is not really a good idea.

FD builds don't have much damage bunched or not and need physicals to rupt but FD has wider range and can be applied to multiple targets due to smaller recharge.

I don't (or rarely) play tankspank so I am FD all the way. But overall panic+wastrels is a lot better (with a tank).

Outerworld · Mar 02, 2011, 07:25 PM // 19:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vazze

They have different purpose. If a large mob is nicely bunched, panic with wastrels not only shuts down the entire mob but also decimates them: but this needs a tank. The thing is that the tank can and should survive whether or not you rupt foes so the only purpose of panic is to ensure that wastrels deal damage. Panic against a spread out mob is not really a good idea.

FD builds don't have much damage bunched or not and need physicals to rupt but FD has wider range and can be applied to multiple targets due to smaller recharge.

I don't (or rarely) play tankspank so I am FD all the way. But overall panic+wastrels is a lot better (with a tank).

The rupts generated when daze is applied are enough, you don't NEED a physical to rupt them but it only helps.

ZephyLynx · Mar 02, 2011, 07:28 PM // 19:28

While I think Psychic Instability beats both, it really depends on the team and whatever you are fighting.

Panic is better when the mob size is bigger, but in places like a lot of Tyria, you don't really face a lot of enemies at once, so its not as useful. FD works better if your team is more coordinated as to how to apply the conditions and on whom. While you can provide your own conditions, other professions can apply some conditions better and cheaper. For pugging, it might be better to stick with Panic, unless the mobs you are facing are small.

On the other hand, a skilled use of Psychic Instability might beat out both. It is capable of flooring a mob for half of the time. Of course you are probably not going to be able to interrupt on recharge, but many people forget just how useful knockdowns are. It's a ranged combination of Backbreaker and Earth Shaker with nearby range. While you may need a 12 in Fast Casting, does not lock you to Illusion or Domination, giving you more options when making your bar. Also, unlike Panic, it is still useful against single enemies. I can't tell you how many times I've seen some mesmers use panic on a single, lone foe (same with splinter/barrage).

tl;dr :
Panic is fire and forget, and gets better with more foes.
FD is most effective with build syncing and team coordination.
PI is extremely useful, but takes effort to use.

Outerworld · Mar 02, 2011, 07:32 PM // 19:32

Why do people think FD requires a team built around it when it really, really doesn't?

Ymlad + ash blast provides conditions for the daze, recasting FD will also reapply the daze and then you have FH for further daze

ZephyLynx · Mar 02, 2011, 07:37 PM // 19:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Outerworld

Why do people think FD requires a team built around it when it really, really doesn't?

It does not require a team build, but it does get more effective when your teammates are just a bit synced. While there are plenty of ways to apply conditions to a target, some professions are simple better at certain ones than others. I'm just saying that it is more effective to use your entire team as a whole. Panic suffers from a similar problem. While you can use it on 2 or 3 foes standing next to each other, it is much better when you have a nice large mob.

WarcryOfTruth · Mar 02, 2011, 08:13 PM // 20:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Outerworld

Why do people think FD requires a team built around it when it really, really doesn't?

Ymlad + ash blast provides conditions for the daze, recasting FD will also reapply the daze and then you have FH for further daze

Do it without PvE-Only skills

Outerworld · Mar 02, 2011, 08:26 PM // 20:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarcryOfTruth

Do it without PvE-Only skills

Shrinking armour + drain delusions and enfeeble...oh wow that was hard.

Kunder · Mar 05, 2011, 01:51 AM // 01:51

I really see 0 use for Fevered Dreams insofar as applying Daze AND Blind, because 90% of the time enemy casters aren't going to be anywhere near enemy physicals. Sure, you can blind the rangers... OK I suppose. In cases were the enemy melee is close enough for Fevered Dreams to spread blind Panic would be able to go into lolinterrupteverything mode. Now, this isn't a point in favour of either one, lets just make it clear: both nigh-completely disable a mob if you ball them all up into one spot.

Panic is great for being fire and forget. Put it up, mob does nothing. Fevered Dreams? Not so much, you have to commit to piling conditions which leaves less time for damage. The upside is that you can control interrupts. This all combines to benefit a good player a lot, a bad player little, and a hero not at all.

Then we have the elephant in the room: illusion vs domination. Frankly, the wastrel's line is so amazing that it blows anything in illusion out of the water. Mistrust also gets points for being an AoE nuke of exceedingly large strength for a spell, and at a good recharge (keep in mind, ~30% reduction for mesmers). The only thing Panic has is spreading Deep Wound. To be fair, Deep Wound is awesome. But it doesn't stack with multiple applications, 1 use of it is still almost 1/3rd weaker than a single use of mistrust, and with Panic you have all your free time to spam your damage.

I'll give the edge decisively to Fevered Dreams for pure mitigation, IF played well. Especially for areas with smaller numbers of stronger foes. But, for overall build strength (more damage), and ease of use (which means a f**k ton when I'm deciding what to put on a hero or what pub to pick), I'll take panic any day.

And Psychic Instability > all, just to be clear. Knockdown is the strongest 'condition' in the game.

Outerworld · Mar 05, 2011, 09:58 PM // 21:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

And Psychic Instability > all, just to be clear. Knockdown is the strongest 'condition' in the game.

My prob with PI is that it locks me into almost max fast casting for the 4 second breakpoint.

Wenspire · Mar 05, 2011, 10:28 PM // 22:28

Fast Casting is great to invest in for the shortened Mes-spell recharge benefit.

Outerworld · Mar 05, 2011, 10:54 PM // 22:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wenspire

Fast Casting is great to invest in for the shortened Mes-spell recharge benefit.

Great to invest in yes, not great to max out.

Kunder · Mar 06, 2011, 01:41 AM // 01:41

12 fast casting is maxed out? With runes and a headpiece thats nothing. 12/10/8 and 10/10/11 are perfectly normal splits. Given that its an excellent primary attribute there should be no problem.

Of course, 16 FC gets you a 6s recharge on Psychic Instability. That's just lovely. Exponential decrease in recharge time and all. Keep in mind you are also getting a 8s recharge on Waste Not, Want Not, and other similar benefits for the rest of your bar.