Curse

Drk Dervish · Jul 20, 2012, 07:17 PM // 19:17

Got nothing to do so reviewing mes team hero.. yeah again lol. I understand there a lot of take on this elite. Some view as a offensive and some as a defensive skill. Some view is over power in normal HM some think is not. This is just in normal HM situation, not DoA or Stationary battle.

I agree Panic is a great shutdown skill (best), but when does bring Panic become redundant or even inefficiency as a skill. i.e if a team already got 2x+ of CoF, Signet of Clumsiness, Mistrust, and wandering eye. Does you still need panic?

Panic activate on a foe successfully use a skill, but on the other hand you got all the other skill flying around try to prevent the activation of a skill/spell/attack. It almost like their fighting each other. Or I got the entire mechanics all wrong, and their stackable together.

ie. If foe A got Mistrust or wandering eye hex, and couple of his buddy next to him got hex panic and triggered. So foe A keep getting shutdown so he never get a chance to trigger mistrust or wandering eye. Or it doesn't matter?

Cuilan · Jul 20, 2012, 07:48 PM // 19:48

Panic relies on foes to use skills, so more foes to hex the better. Some places have a bit less foes than others, so Panic isn't that great for them. You could use Fevered Dreams or Psychic Instability instead in most of PvE. They're often just as good or provide other advantages.

Drk Dervish · Jul 20, 2012, 09:22 PM // 21:22

ty for feedback but I'm not debate about using other skill then panic. I just saying will Panic be came counterproductive skill to a team that is already carry half or a dozen damage base shutdown skill already.

Premium Unleaded · Jul 20, 2012, 10:40 PM // 22:40

Mistrust, clumsiness and similar should trigger regardless of panic. AI will quite often miss or just not attempt to interrupt stuff during the middle of a skirmish because of aftercast delay or simply because interrupting doesn't have a unique priority (afaik) unlike skills such as accumulated pain or enchantment removal (I think).

In the context of pve, it's typically a defensive option because preventing mobs from doing stuff is to prevent them from attacking you more than anything. If you don't think panic will be necessary, whether it's because mob sizes are too small to make the most of it or you simply don't need the defensive cover it provides, then don't take it.

Cuilan · Jul 20, 2012, 11:00 PM // 23:00

I did give an on-topic answer. Shutdown depends a lot on the number of foes.

Drk Dervish · Jul 20, 2012, 11:26 PM // 23:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Premium Unleaded

Mistrust, clumsiness and similar should trigger regardless of panic. AI will quite often miss or just not attempt to interrupt stuff during the middle of a skirmish because of aftercast delay or simply because interrupting doesn't have a unique priority (afaik) unlike skills such as accumulated pain or enchantment removal (I think).

Personally I view as a defensive skill also but anyway back to the topic. So having panic wouldn't down play or effect other passive or skill prevention damage shutdown. I guess the mechanic of both of these different shutdown kind of weird for me.

Since one skill require activation of a skill for trigger, and when that happen everyone near it get shutdown. If everyone already shutdown what do the preventive shutdown type skill do.

On the other skills need to prevent skill activation to trigger. If it prevent a skill to be use what do panic do? It almost sound like pick your poison kind of deal, take only one but not both.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

I did give an on-topic answer. Shutdown depends a lot on the number of foes.

Sorry maybe my question is not clear. The question was kind of on the line of is it counterproductive to have both kind of shutdown in the same team.

Premium Unleaded · Jul 21, 2012, 12:31 AM // 00:31

As far as skill interference goes, it's basically going to be competing with CoFx2 & pdrainx3 in most cases (assuming dom/dom/illu). Of course panic works for any situation where there are mob clumps, ranged/caster or melee, but in practise, prevention of enemy casters from doing spell damage is the main thing because there are 'cheaper' ways of mitigating physicals.
Tbh, you'll rarely, if ever, be in situation where panic is working so effectively that CoF (and to a similar extent pdrain) becomes dead weight, especially if it's a hero in question as their AI is unable to consistently use panic at it's optimum - partly because of how the AI is programmed (use on 'wrong' targets, not recasting if it runs out immediately, etc.), but also partly because effective balling is definitely a prerequist for this sort of clash to become a significant problem and that kind of thing needs quite a lot of effort on your own part.

Ineptitude is also negated by panic because I think it requires a complete animation followthrough to trigger, but that's quite minor imo because more often than not inept will still proc through panic as autoattacks work as well.

Relyk · Jul 21, 2012, 12:46 AM // 00:46

Mistrust will trigger immediately, preventing the cast from ever starting, Panic will not be able to interrupt/prevent this. Cry of Frustration is backup for Panic. The only time a hero will use Cry of Frustration is if an enemy is able to cast. If enemies are constantly interrupted by Panic, this will never happen. That's where redundancy is good thing, not bad. Remember that an enemy has to finish using a skill to trigger Panic, so the hero always has that opportunity to use CoF. It's pretty much impossible for CoF to miss if that's what you're thinking. Heroes have a 1/4 second window between casting CoF and Panic triggering for it to miss and they tend to hit the first thing an enemy starts casting. Since Panic interrupts the entire group, the hero gets a chance to use CoF after every trigger when enemies try casting again. If an enemy with Panic uses like 1/2 second skill, heroes do not try interrupting it often.

Wandering Eye, Clumsiness, and Signet of Clumsiness are generally for anti-melee. Keep in mind they will trigger on regular attacks as well. Enemies will auto-attack (almost) immediately after being interrupted, which actually works out for you if you are using Panic. You don't have to worry about Wandering Eye or Clumsiness not triggering. Also keep in mind that Panic and CoF do not work well against melee, since melee tend to not spam skills often. In HM, heroes rarely use CoF to interrupt attacks because attack skills take 3/4 second or less to use. There's multiple reasons for this, but mostly because melee AI sucks and you have melee hate to prevent them from building adrenaline in the first place.

Panic can be offensive and defensive because it prevents enemies from attacking you and prevents them from defending from your attacks such as healing. You will find that because you have 2-3 copies of Mistrust, CoF and Power Drain with Arcane Conundrum, Shared Burden, and antimelee from Illusion Mesmer, that you are getting the same effect from Panic, forcing enemies to autoattack to trigger high damage illusion magic while interrupting key skills. In that case, you don't need the redundancy Panic provides for shutting down enemies.

Drk Dervish · Jul 21, 2012, 02:18 AM // 02:18

ah think Premium/Relyk for the detail insight yes those are the mechanical Ai information I was looking for. I'll go back and take a closer look at this elite again then.

Cuilan · Jul 21, 2012, 02:57 AM // 02:57

Panic relies on foes to use skills, so more foes to hex the better. I don't see how you don't understand how that is your answer. Another thing to consider is that Mistrust doesn't interrupt, it causes skill failure.

This thread should have been in the hero forum if this is about heroes.

Drk Dervish · Jul 21, 2012, 04:08 AM // 04:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

Panic relies on foes to use skills, so more foes to hex the better. I don't see how you don't understand how that is your answer. Another thing to consider is that Mistrust doesn't interrupt, it causes skill failure.

This thread should have been in the hero forum if this is about heroes.

Your the one who don't understand what the topic but anyways got my answer. And for the LAST time the topic was not what situation is panic are the most effect or how to use it. READ THE THREAD.

Cuilan · Jul 21, 2012, 05:11 PM // 17:11

Please do explain how I did not understand the topic. I clearly added additional parts about other elites since you went out of your way to "agree" that Panic is the "best."

Relyk · Jul 21, 2012, 06:14 PM // 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

Please do explain how I did not understand the topic. I clearly added additional parts about other elites since you went out of your way to "agree" that Panic is the "best."

You sniped the the phrase "redundant or even inefficiency as a skill" and went off on that while ignoring the rest of the post. The question is a little more thoughtful than "when does panic suck to use".

Cuilan · Jul 21, 2012, 08:11 PM // 20:11

Saying the number of foes or skill spam isn't ignoring or going off anywhere. I know my grammar is terrible, but at least I'm not posting the the or sniped.

Relyk · Jul 22, 2012, 06:26 AM // 06:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

Saying the number of foes or skill spam isn't ignoring or going off anywhere. I know my grammar is terrible, but at least I'm not posting the the or sniped.

I don't give a RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO about my grammar as you can't read in the first place. If you want to slap dicks, that doesn't require the ability to make logical arguments and therefore I would love to do so with you. But no amount of backtracking will make you less wrong.

drowze · Jul 22, 2012, 03:13 PM // 15:13

In hindsight, basically what Relyk said

Won't delete my post anyway^^

As stated Mistrust (also Wandering Eye) prevent the action of the foe (cast and attack respectively) from being completed, so they won't trigger panic, which needs a successful skill activation.
Mistrust triggers as soon as the foe tries to cast a spell on a target, so it fails right away, not at the end of the casting animation (I think). So, panic will probably not interfere much with mistrust (because it won't have the time to interrupt it). Wandering Eye and Clumsiness trigger on auto-attacks as well, so they can play their role if there are a bunch of melee around.
CoF will interfere a little, in that it shuts down a group for one interrupt and deal it's damage. But 2 copies of CoF, for me, are not enough when you need large groups to be shutdown for an extended period of time. When brought with panic it might catch some spells panic missed, and deals some nice aoe damage in the process.

The only skills I do not see going well together at all is Panic and Psychic Instability. I like both, but both together seems redundant. Panic has huge range, PI has aoe KD... depends on personal preference and maybe the situation. Note that while foes are KD'ed they won't be triggering wandering eye, clumsiness, mistrust, and whatever needs any kind of action to trigger; so PI seems to interfere more with other shutdown tactics than Panic does.

Or at least that's what I think ><

akelarumi · Jul 22, 2012, 11:59 PM // 23:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by drowze

The only skills I do not see going well together at all is Panic and Psychic Instability. I like both, but both together seems redundant. Panic has huge range, PI has aoe KD... depends on personal preference and maybe the situation. Note that while foes are KD'ed they won't be triggering wandering eye, clumsiness, mistrust, and whatever needs any kind of action to trigger; so PI seems to interfere more with other shutdown tactics than Panic does.

Just to prevent people of misreading

. When Drowze is saying PI he means Psychic Instability and not pain inverter (Drowze, PI is the more general abbreviation for pain invertor and not often used for Psychic Instability). To get on topic, like most interupts, combining pain inverter with panic is a bad idea. Now to answer the initial question. Panic is a nice skill. There are good alternatives. In my opinion in a lot of cases the alternatives are better, however in a generic build I would prefer panic on a mesmer hero cause it always is usefull to some point and in many cases the full requirements are met to be better then the alternatives.

But then again a lot of debate has gone over this subject and as long as it helps you to the end your fine

Cuilan · Jul 29, 2012, 12:46 AM // 00:46

One of the questions was when does bring Panic become redundant or even inefficiency as a skill. I said Panic is stronger with more foes, so that means a mesmer bar full of other disruption could be preferred in areas were foes are spread apart or fewer in number and I will admit how Panic can be compared to other elites. I apparently read your posts more than you do, Relyk.

Drk Dervish · Jul 30, 2012, 06:03 PM // 18:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

One of the questions was when does bring Panic become redundant or even inefficiency as a skill. I said Panic is stronger with more foes, so that means a mesmer bar full of other disruption could be preferred in areas were foes are spread apart or fewer in number and I will admit how Panic can be compared to other elites. I apparently read your posts more than you do, Relyk.

I quote myself again in my original posting and BOLD the part why your comment was not an answer to the question.

"I agree Panic is a great shutdown skill (best), but when does bring Panic become redundant or even inefficiency as a skill. i.e if a team already got 2x+ of CoF, Signet of Clumsiness, Mistrust, and wandering eye. Does you still need panic? "

Redundant = No longer needed or useful (ie if you need to get some worker to lift 100 lbs of package. There 1 worker can lift 100 lbs by himself, but you currently already got 2 workers that can left 50lbs each. If you still choice to take that 1 strong worker then he would became redundant. It got nothing to do with how strong the skill is in the contents of the question. )

Inefficiency = Not producing the effect intended or desired (ie if other shutdown skill preventing panic to trigger or trigger much less which making it inefficient. It got nothing to do with number of foe either in the contents of the question.)

So you did read my posting but only take in half of the question. Even base on just half the question you still didn't answered correct. If you don't know how to answer a question then please don't try and let other too. If you don't understand the question in the first place then please ask for clarification.

Maybe you can take a back seat and read what other saying first, and stop trolling on people threads and just maybe your can learn something new for a change. Because from what you been replying to my threads, you don't have the slightest clue of what your talking, and so far not one "Single" intelligent feedback. Your comments is pointless, just trolling, or when push to the wall you pull out more pointless "monday morning quarterback" type comments.

MOD Please close this thread question have been intelligently answered.

Cuilan · Jul 30, 2012, 07:48 PM // 19:48

You're the one who puts two sentences into one and makes an ass of oneself. Maybe you can take a back seat and consider you may have been wrong, but I doubt your ego will allow that.

Redundant can be inefficient. You make a thread about how you don't know about Panic and all of the sudden you think of yourself as some sort of an authority of the matter. You don't own this thread and you don't have any control over how people wish to reply. My first did indeed put your question into consideration, so if you don't agree with it then don't agree with it. If anything it's your fault for going off about other issues and then expecting people to only reply to one bit. People have the ability to question or comment about any part of your posts.