Curse

Sebiale · Jul 29, 2012, 06:47 AM // 06:47

I recently tried out the Panic Mesmer build as it's shown on on gwpvx, and while not terrible, I don't see how it's meta. My Build.

Wastrel's Demise and Panic do have a synergy, but it doesn't seem enough to justify running the build, not for damage anyways. You seem to need a fairly large group of enemies all close together, before you could expect the build to get much work done, and even then I'll be lucky if Wastrel will tick past 16, ~30 seems to be uncommon for me, and I generally don't get that many in such a configuration anyways. I'm pretty well lost on what to do if the enemies decide to split up as my ability to do just about anything drops like a rock.

Maybe I misunderstood something, but it just doesn't seem like much of a damage build, I think I was getting more AoE damage running Overload with Unnatural Signet, Cry of Pain, and Shatter Delusions.

Is the build outdated, or do you think I'm misapplying something?

Denim · Jul 29, 2012, 07:29 AM // 07:29

I don't know about Meta, but imo it's supposed to prevent damage, not cause it. So, if you're not seeing "!!" above foes, it ain't working. Switch to Esurge or something for damage and if that works for you...

I'm not qualified to judge what's Meta.

ruk1a · Jul 29, 2012, 07:52 AM // 07:52

It's not much for damage but support to prevent it. I only run it on heroes along with PI/Inept/Esurge. I would run a different build for player especially if you're looking for damage.

akelarumi · Jul 29, 2012, 09:40 AM // 09:40

yip,

a build around panic is a support build not a damage build. As a support build it is very meta. but personally I have always prefered to be in charge of damage output in my team, only time I run support builds are when I'm not playing with heroes but with real people.

Sebiale · Jul 29, 2012, 02:40 PM // 14:40

Oh, I see. My bad.

I also facepalmed earlier when I noticed another issue--I have fewer Dom points than the gwpvx build, so my damage output is lower--on Wastrel's D it's 8 by 8 instead of 11 by 11.

I am enjoying the energy surge build, though it also lacks Dom points.

Speaking of E-Surge, I don't have the faction needed for Air of Superiority, so do you think I should toss another energy management skill there instead, or just put something else for more damage? My E-Surge Build.

ETA: If Panic is for support, could you use Cry of Frustration instead of mistrust? It can't be cast and then forgotten, but it works on skills instead of just spells, and it interrupts everyone else using a skill.

ruk1a · Jul 29, 2012, 04:18 PM // 16:18

http://www.gwpvx.com/Build:Me/E_PvE_Panic_Mesmer meta build with 2 optionals

Sebiale · Jul 29, 2012, 04:35 PM // 16:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by ruk1a

http://www.gwpvx.com/Build:Me/E_PvE_Panic_Mesmer meta build with 2 optionals

Yes, that's the build I used.

KotCR · Jul 29, 2012, 04:36 PM // 16:36

Cry of Frustation is a little bit redundant alongside Panic; They basically do the same thing, just Panic is continuous and Cry of Frustration is one shot.

That being said, there's no reason you couldn't bring it instead of Mistrust. It's still a decent skill.

Kunder · Jul 29, 2012, 07:47 PM // 19:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sebiale

meta

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Sebiale · Jul 29, 2012, 08:20 PM // 20:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

I think you're right.

I originally thought it referred to a build that was considered useful/effective in a majority of circumstances, specifically for end-game content. A build that anticipates and counters aspects of end-game content and is frequently used by people.
But the PvX vetting system says meta refers to builds used in HA/GvG, except if that's the case, why are there meta builds listed under PvE in the gwpvx wiki?

Kunder · Jul 29, 2012, 08:30 PM // 20:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sebiale

I think you're right.

I originally thought it referred to a build that was considered useful/effective in a majority of circumstances, specifically for end-game content. A build that anticipates and counters aspects of end-game content and is frequently used by people.
But the PvX vetting system says meta refers to builds used in HA/GvG, except if that's the case, why are there meta builds listed under PvE in the gwpvx wiki?

Meta really just means popular. In PvP terms that generally means the builds that are winning the most at the moment become popular soon and are therefore meta. PvE meta farming builds are generally defined similarly, as it's easy to quantify the most efficient farming build and then everyone wants to play the most efficient farming build. In general PvE terms it can mean almost anything though. Builds that become meta for non-farming PvE tend to be builds that are highly fail-proof and easy to use, as opposed to stronger builds that are more complex or require better team coordination to pull off. If you go back far enough W/Mos with Mending were meta, but it was never a good build.

Relyk · Jul 30, 2012, 01:02 AM // 01:02

PvXwiki doesn't have a defined policy for meta builds in PvE. There hasn't been a need to do so, so consider any build tagged with meta as arbitrarily meaning that it's commonly used in many areas.

HigherMinion · Jul 30, 2012, 04:21 AM // 04:21

A human mesmer preventing damage should be using Fevered Dreams. A human mesmer wishing to deal damage should be using E-Surge or AP-EVAS echo spam.

Relyk · Jul 31, 2012, 02:10 AM // 02:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

A human mesmer preventing damage should be using Fevered Dreams. A human mesmer wishing to deal damage should be using E-Surge or AP-EVAS echo spam.

Mesmer can use either Panic or FD. Panic is more effective to use in most cases, you have to design a setup around FD.

Sebiale · Jul 31, 2012, 12:56 PM // 12:56

Thanks for the advice everyone.

HigherMinion · Jul 31, 2012, 08:50 PM // 20:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relyk

Mesmer can use either Panic or FD. Panic is more effective to use in most cases, you have to design a setup around FD.

If someone on Guru asks for a meta build, it's safe to assume they will never change their build throughout PvE. Since Panic is only useful during DoA, BLA and WoC content, I wouldn't recommend it. FD has greater functionality as anti-melee, anti-caster and makes Fragility rape mobs, snares whole mobs, deeply-wounds whole mobs. You don't really have to build a whole team around it; the conditions can be all found on your own bar. Just make sure you have some spears to chuck at the dazed target.

Sebiale · Jul 31, 2012, 10:32 PM // 22:32

Speaking of FD builds, for the Weakness condition, does it make a difference between Ebon Hawk and Enervating Charge that they apply Weakness before/after damage?
I'm inclined to take Charge because it has higher damage at low levels, and a longer duration at higher levels.

Right now I'm just trying out different Mesmer builds to see what I like--I've tried Panic, and E-Surge, so now I want to give FD a spin.

HigherMinion · Aug 01, 2012, 02:33 AM // 02:33

FD-Fragility-Ymlad-Ash Blast-Finish Him-CoP-Drain Delusions-Arcane Conundrum and some other stuff.

Sebiale · Aug 02, 2012, 03:56 PM // 15:56

Hmm, not sure I'm doing it right--my Discord necromancers keep killing my target foe before I can finish my rotation and kind of leave me hanging.
Am I trying to apply too many conditions? (It doesn't show on Decode but Illusion is at 14.)

Tess80 · Aug 20, 2012, 09:34 AM // 09:34

Fevered Dreams doesn't have the best synergy with a discord team. Discord is meant to spike targets down one by one while Fevered Dreams is meant to stay active as a platform to disable the entire enemy team for a short while.

That having been said, I'd lay back on the conditions myself. Technobabble is redundant as you get daze from Fevered Dreams and Enervating Charge can easily be left out if you have Enfeebling Blood somewhere on your team. That leaves two free spots which I'd probably fill with some energy management like Drain Delusions or Arcane Conundrum, and some nice PvE skill of choice such as Cry of Pain which is always good on a mesmer.