Curse

mrbb · Mar 14, 2006, 02:46 AM // 02:46

It appears to me that Warrior has the unique armor that no one can have. Monks have divine favor that gives a great bonus to healing. But, can necros and mesmers can be replaced by a primary profession Elemental? The necros and Mesmers's primary attirubte is about energy management but the Elemental can have upwards to 100+ energy. So, would you say that E/R, E/N, E/Mes would be just about as effective as the other primary professions?

I have not played extensivelly with Necros, Rangers, Mes... so excuse my ignorance if I'm way out of line by suggesting this.

Serra Knightfang · Mar 14, 2006, 03:43 AM // 03:43

Fast Casting is not about energy management. It's about casting more spells over the same amount of time as another profession.
As a preface I must say that I have not played a Necro extensively, however, I would think that Soul Reaping's main difference would be in its ongoing effect.
Energy Storage gives you more base energy but Soul Reaping has the potential to provide continuous boosts in energy.

LightningHell · Mar 14, 2006, 04:57 AM // 04:57

Personally I think they need to make a +Energy armor for Elementalists.

We do have Energy Storage, but the other classes can have extra energy without any attribute points!

Francis Crawford · Mar 14, 2006, 07:45 AM // 07:45

Just the energy from Energy Storage is unlikely to be enough in a long battle to make up for the lack of runes and headgear. And Soul Reaping probably provides more energy/attribute point/fight than Energy Storage anyway.

It would need to be a build in which an Elementalist energy management elite skill was far superior to the elite and also primary-attribute skills available in the "primary/secondary" profession. Tough to make the case for a necro (they have great elites, and also soul reaping) or bonding monk (Blessed Signet) or monk casting low energy healing/protection spells of any kind (Divine Favor bonus). That pretty much eliminates everything except mesmers, smiting monks, and some specialized heal/protection builds.

torquemada · Mar 14, 2006, 08:26 AM // 08:26

Ahem....SS officialy replaced nukers...

oljomo · Mar 14, 2006, 11:03 AM // 11:03

Hi

Im afraid your post is backwards, if theres one class a well played ele can replace, its the warrior. With all the rmour buffs (and the only class able to prevent enchantments being stripped constantly) they can far surpass warriors.

oljomo

Yobz · Mar 15, 2006, 02:11 AM // 02:11

Rather than have +energy runes, maybe they could have +exhaustion regeneration on maybe one type of armor (eg headgear). I note that this is not an attribute, but then again neither is absorption.

While the elementalist may run out of energy depending on the length of the battle. Necromancesrs only benefit from soul reaping if something actually dies.

Francis Crawford · Mar 15, 2006, 04:16 AM // 04:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yobz

While the elementalist may run out of energy depending on the length of the battle. Necromancesrs only benefit from soul reaping if something actually dies.

If there aren't at least three enemies dead by the first time the elementalist is low on energy, he's probably not pulling his weight in the battle.

LouAl · Mar 15, 2006, 11:38 PM // 23:38

You could make a case for a E/Me that used only very short cast speed spells, a MM that could raise armies without having to wait for regen (as often), a Interrupt ranger spamming Conc Shot, or trapper with loads of energy...

I see the real problem being that the primary will always have the advantage of having runes and headgear so their stuff will almost always be more effective. The /me won't shutdown for as long, the /n won't have as powerful minions or SS, the /r won't have cheap skills with Expertise and will lose damage from traps and attacks...

Bottom line is that it can work and could be lots of fun, but the primaries will be better at doing the same thing (you could come up with some combos to augment your primary that make you MUCH more effective).

Edit: and yeah, like Serra said, Mesmer's primary is about making those spells cast faster, not cost less.

LifeInfusion · Mar 16, 2006, 05:18 AM // 05:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by oljomo

Hi

Im afraid your post is backwards, if theres one class a well played ele can replace, its the warrior. With all the rmour buffs (and the only class able to prevent enchantments being stripped constantly) they can far surpass warriors.

oljomo

Only with wards. Enchantments usually are stripped.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Francis Crawford

If there aren't at least three enemies dead by the first time the elementalist is low on energy, he's probably not pulling his weight in the battle.

So my earth ele. warden is useless right...sure...

Hollerith · Mar 16, 2006, 07:31 AM // 07:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

Only with wards. Enchantments usually are stripped.

So my earth ele. warden is useless right...sure...

Obsidian Flesh does a great job preventing the strips. It was even mentioned.

No one's calling a warder useless. But if an ele is specced damage and nothing's dying by the time they're ooe, they should probably rethink their spec & bar.

Warskull · Mar 16, 2006, 07:33 AM // 07:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by oljomo

Hi

Im afraid your post is backwards, if theres one class a well played ele can replace, its the warrior. With all the rmour buffs (and the only class able to prevent enchantments being stripped constantly) they can far surpass warriors.

oljomo

Eles cannot repalce a good warrior. A warrior can output more damage and take more damage without any skills. Eles simply cannot fill that role. In addition all their armor buffs are enchantments and are removable.

oljomo · Mar 16, 2006, 08:55 AM // 08:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warskull

Eles cannot repalce a good warrior. A warrior can output more damage and take more damage without any skills. Eles simply cannot fill that role. In addition all their armor buffs are enchantments and are removable.

Hi

Did anoyone acytually read my post before saying that "enchantments can be stripped"?

It specifically mentions that eles ahve a way of making it so tehy can never lose enchantments.

And another point, how mcuh damage can your warrior do while hes holding the book/gear?

Hmm, what was that, 0 damage, as opposed to an ele who can cast spells as well?

oljomo

Francis Crawford · Mar 16, 2006, 09:25 AM // 09:25

Having Obsidian Flesh on your skill bar hardly assures that you'll be able to keep your enchantments up. Oh, I think you can ensure that it stays up permanently if you have three secondary professions, but energy management might be an issue, and anyway the last time I looked having three simultaneous secondary professions was against the rules.

LightningHell · Mar 16, 2006, 09:30 AM // 09:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by oljomo

Hi

Im afraid your post is backwards, if theres one class a well played ele can replace, its the warrior. With all the rmour buffs (and the only class able to prevent enchantments being stripped constantly) they can far surpass warriors.

oljomo

If you're talking about PvE, fine. I can't say anything.

If you're talking about PvP, go and read the forums more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by oljomo

Hi

Did anoyone acytually read my post before saying that "enchantments can be stripped"?

It specifically mentions that eles ahve a way of making it so tehy can never lose enchantments.

And another point, how mcuh damage can your warrior do while hes holding the book/gear?

Hmm, what was that, 0 damage, as opposed to an ele who can cast spells as well?

oljomo

Please. Obsidian Flesh is a Monk elite.

And another point, how much damage can your elementalist do while he's constantly knocked down by a Hammer warrior right on his face? Not to mention he might have a big problem surviving.

Hmm.

Don't scream "NOOB WARRIOR". Please. I specialize in the Elementalist.

pegasux · Mar 16, 2006, 04:02 PM // 16:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

Please. Obsidian Flesh is a Monk elite.

Umm no it's an elementalist elite. look under earth spells. monks have spell breaker {E}.

ehanks · Mar 16, 2006, 04:27 PM // 16:27

Back on original topic: In some situations an Ele/Mes or Ele/Nec is better than the primary Mes or Nec. Normally this is the case when you want to spam a couple of non-elite spells. For example: Use Ether prodigy and E/Mes and spam conjure phantasm, clumsiness, soothing images, arcane conundrum, etc. This character can keep the hexes coming better than a Mesmer primary. Ether Prodigy gives you nearly limitless energy. Same for E/Nec spamming hexes, or E/Mo spamming scourge healing and smite spells.

Notice I'm focusing on Ether Prodigy...just having a higher beginning energy is only good in the short run. In a long fight, you will soon deplete that huge energy pool, and you'll be down to the same amount of energy as any other caster. And you don't have the benefit of runes to buff your spells, so you'll be less effective than a primary mes or nec in the long run.

So the only way an E/"whatever" is better than a primary "whatever" is either in a very short fight, or if they use the excellent Energy Storage energy skills. I really think Ether Prodigy is the best energy gain in the game. It has a low cost, fast recharge, and is less conditional than soul reaping. And it is best used with spells that do NOT cause exhaustion, so it is a good choice for a primary ele using mostly spells from a secondary class.

holden · Mar 16, 2006, 04:35 PM // 16:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by pegasux

Umm no it's an elementalist elite. look under earth spells. monks have spell breaker {E}.

lol

but warriors certainly do more damage than eles. a warriors job wont get interrupted unless he dies. even with all the conditions you'll throw at him he'll still do damage. an ele can do damage but he's soft. wards are great, armor of earth is great. someone interrupting an ele's 5 second cast time money shot is a big problem. it cost 25 energy and you did no damage to show for it. having your attunement interrupted mid battle will screw you. just standing around with your wand. even with obsidian flesh....an ele is just waiting for the ranger and warriors to pile on.

pegasux · Mar 16, 2006, 04:49 PM // 16:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by holden

lol

but warriors certainly do more damage than eles. a warriors job wont get interrupted unless he dies. even with all the conditions you'll throw at him he'll still do damage. an ele can do damage but he's soft. wards are great, armor of earth is great. someone interrupting an ele's 5 second cast time money shot is a big problem. it cost 25 energy and you did no damage to show for it. having your attunement interrupted mid battle will screw you. just standing around with your wand. even with obsidian flesh....an ele is just waiting for the ranger and warriors to pile on.

I agree that a ranger can shutdown a ele very effectively unless you can blind him. Obsidian Flesh will stop the casters but not rangers though =(. There are geo builds however that I have run where I can kill a warrior...i do it quite regularly in PvP BUT if your a good warrior then you can stop a good geo imo. There simply are not enough low cost fast cast high damge spells for an ele in the earth line to take out a good wammo imo.

Armageddon · Mar 16, 2006, 05:08 PM // 17:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

Please. Obsidian Flesh is a Monk elite.

Please. I specialize in the Elementalist.

lol

the biggest barrier eles have I think is interupts or knockdowns.
im pretty sure an ele could out damage a warrior 1v1 - but interupts and knockdowns would stop an ele in his tracks