Curse

Rayea · Mar 12, 2006, 12:55 PM // 12:55

people make one character because they ether have only a little amount of time to plal with, like me, and wish to devote all their time to said character, or they stick to a single primary because they love that class...

and there should be no reason why any single primary class should be unable to be used or played inPvE.....
the ghame has 2 halves....PvP on one side...PvE on the other....
just because someone prefers one over the other, it should not impact their game to the extent it is doing.

teklling someone to simply go play another charater type?
grow up

OrangeArrow · Mar 12, 2006, 01:23 PM // 13:23

so anyone think it will only be a matter of time till all PvE Mob monks and mesmers will get hex removal and all the PvE warrior Mobs will get hex breaker?

[FnG] Lazz · Mar 12, 2006, 01:33 PM // 13:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob of Maple Ave

Spiteful Spirit, at level 18 (with Awaken the Blood) does 42 damage every 2 seconds. Used in conjunction with Arcane Echo, it does 84 damage every 2 seconds

Are you sure about it doing double damage with Arcane Echo? I just tried it with my Necro and its set to do 33 damage per hit, yet even with casting it again via Arcane Echo it remained at 33 damage.

Capitan Del Queso · Mar 12, 2006, 01:36 PM // 13:36

All this talk about "proper" aggro management vs "book" trick is silly. For quite a while now mobs switch aggro to easier targets with lower armor/higher dp when they determine they should. The vast majority of 5-man farming teams are PUGs, and sure, you could try to manage a pug and keep everyone but one person way back and go around trying to bunch up enemies and keep them on you, try to run around a bunch of enemies with the large silly body blocking dimensions to peck at various mobs to try to keep their attention, convince everyone else to keep running back and forth to try to shrug off aggro, or pick up a book/gear/keg. Which one do you think people will go for? Getting rid of the every-mob-attack-the-book-holder ai behavior really would help, and it would force farming groups to either play much more intelligently to reap a similar effect from spiteful or try other methods of damage-dealing.

dgb · Mar 12, 2006, 01:39 PM // 13:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by [FnG] Lazz

Are you sure about it doing double damage with Arcane Echo? I just tried it with my Necro and its set to do 33 damage per hit, yet even with casting it again via Arcane Echo it remained at 33 damage.

You cast the second one on another enemy...

Bale_Shadowscar · Mar 12, 2006, 01:42 PM // 13:42

He means with Arcane Echo you can cast it on 2 targets, and as it effects all nearby foes, it basically doubles the total damage output, not the actual individual damage.

[Uchiha] · Mar 12, 2006, 02:07 PM // 14:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by [FnG] Lazz

Are you sure about it doing double damage with Arcane Echo? I just tried it with my Necro and its set to do 33 damage per hit, yet even with casting it again via Arcane Echo it remained at 33 damage.

You cast it on another person adjacent to the one you already casted it on, since you can't cast two of the same hex on the same foe. I'm pretty sure he meant to add his damage together, 4x+4x = 8x.

[FnG] Lazz · Mar 12, 2006, 02:14 PM // 14:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by [Uchiha]

You cast it on another person adjacent to the one you already casted it on, since you can't cast two of the same hex on the same foe. I'm pretty sure he meant to add his damage together, 4x+4x = 8x.

Yeah it worked

I just went to Nolani Academy using my Lvl 20 Necro and used the lever in the mission to let all the charr in. It was quite good to see my Necro take on 12+ charr at once and win

Faer · Mar 12, 2006, 02:21 PM // 14:21

Ele's aren't useless :|

I go Oro farming in Sorrow's Furnace all the time using my Ele... We take an MM necro, two people to sac themselves for minion material, a healer monk to rez them, and me for pure nukage with a bit of Heal Area to assist in keeping the minions alive. Maybe it isn't the mainstream and widely accepted way to do it, but it works great. Occasionally, when we want to clear it a bit faster because we have other things to do, we'll bring along a stance tank to use the gear trick...

Anyhoo. Just my two cents.

Exoudeous · Mar 12, 2006, 02:33 PM // 14:33

Yea just because random groups dont accept it doesnt mean it wont work. thats why you get a nice guild with people that like to do that kind of stuff alot. Because they know you and they know what you can and cant do.

random groups most to the time arnt willing to make acceptions and unless you are the exact build they need, they think you are worthless

Cjlr · Mar 12, 2006, 02:42 PM // 14:42

Because of that oh-so-infamous December AI Update, Elementalists have been reduced to oddball support jobs. Fine. The nuking mechanic was broken and caused horrible abuse. But what do we have to replace it? Spiteful Spirit. A - you guessed it - Area of Effect spell. But guess what? The mobs don't run. I don't mind necros getting their 15 minutes, but does it have to be such a woefully broken skill to give it to them? There are hundreds of excellent Necro builds. SS is broken and people like it that way. Thinking? Adapting? What's that?

I wouldn't even mind, if there were groups willing to take eles for some support roles. A competent elementalist can do pretty much anything, and that's no lie. The only thing removed from them is the capacity for widespread AoE damage. Spiking, tanking, warding, blinding, snaring... it all still works. But since the Elementalists can no longer nuke in the same old way - they get rejected. Necros step in as the ultimate AoE damage dealer, but their methods are no less AI abusing and broken then the arcane echo + glyph of renewal + meteor shower combination so prevalent six months ago.

Elementalists are now useless as pure damage dealers. That's not such a bad thing in and of itself. Of course, the superficial design of the whole class certainly leans towards nuking as a specialization. That is a problem. But no worries. I'm sure that ANet will fix it eventually. It only took 8 months to partially fix the AI. I'm sure in another 8 we'll have mobs at least as intelligent as lobotomized hornets.

Linkusmax · Mar 12, 2006, 02:51 PM // 14:51

At Least it still works in PvP
(Actually I still use this combo in PvE somtimes)
Glyph of Renewal--> Rodgorts Invocation--> Incedinary Bonds --> Meteor--> Arcane Echo--> Rodgorts Invocation--> Rodgorts Invocation.

But I digress I rarely get asked to bring my ele along for anything. Its always MM Necro or Ranger from my guildies.

Ira Blinks · Mar 12, 2006, 02:52 PM // 14:52

one thing i dont seem to get is all this talk about rangers... Rangers have replaced eles, not SS necros. Jeez open your eyes ppl. The only place rangers are still not welcome is SF and only because people are too lazy to change builds. And guess what - barrage and traps are AoE to and mobs dont run from them either.

Wildi · Mar 12, 2006, 03:04 PM // 15:04

necro is a joke, E/N with meteor shower + spiteful spirit for the win

Kidney Licker · Mar 12, 2006, 03:09 PM // 15:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wildi

necro is a joke, E/N with meteor shower + spiteful spirit for the win

Ahem, that should be N/E with Spiteful Spirit + meteor shower ftw.

thor hammerbane · Mar 12, 2006, 03:11 PM // 15:11

Yea this is a real annoyance...ele's are for nuking, and they can't even do that effectively anymore. Not only did a-net stop farming, but they rendered a class practically useless.

wiz12268 · Mar 12, 2006, 03:22 PM // 15:22

It is the evolution of the game. In the beginning everyone wanted a nuker. Rangers were trying to be nukers in ToA for crying out loud when the game first came out. Now everyone wants MM and SS necros. Why? Because they are the only class yet to be nerfed. Basically I use my ELE (when I play him at all) is to be a healer/protector/bonder) So basically he has become a monk. Something very wrong their IMO. Sure they have spells that will spike major damage, but at HUGE costs, so relatively they are no better than any other spiker, and because you get exhausted they are worse. Elementalists have basically been nerfed out of the high level areas. I have tried every build imagineable and they are not even in the same league of damage out put as my ranger and even my mesmer, hell my monk withthe right set up does more damage also.

But it isn't really a certains CLASS as it is a certain BUILD. IMO these cookie cutter builds all take advantage of "exploits" in the game. When someone can dust off a ranger they haveven't played since they got the game, go capture a pet ,which they NEVER played before, and can go in a run through supposedly the highest levels of the game is crazy. And if it weren't for the pets that die to give the necros meat, they wouldn't even be needed at all. SO rangers aren't all that either IMO, even though I play one.

Basically it comes down to necros being totally overpowering on the PvE side of the game. They weren't in the beginning, but as the nerfs came down and updates happened, Necros were the one class (other than mesmers) that haven't gotten nerfed to oblivion.

But as yet I do not see many people looking for mesmers, simply because the right EXPLOIT is not yet available in a high end map. If there suddenly became a map where it was extremely easy with a mesmer or two(that was painfully obvious) on the team they would be in high demand as well. Just depends on how you can take advantage of a situation. If it didn't work people wouldn't be doing it.

But NO class has been nerfed (at least on the PvE side) more than elemetalists. They had a few choice spots that only they could farm, and those were ruined. Now the only places they can go are the same places a 55 monk can go as well, and those are dwindling. So on the solo side and the team sideof PvE ele are a dying breed.

And please don't say try more builds. I have tried every conceiveable build in every conceiveable magic with every secondary profession. Elementalists are basically nuetered in this game in the high level areas. They can play sure, but they are most definately secondary members of the team. When they used to be the major damage dealers in the game to now being little more than hit or miss attackers, that says more about what has been done to the game than anything else.

Either lower spell cost, lower cast time, lower recast time, or eliminate the class. Right now there is almost no use for them in the PvE side of the game, in any of the higher maps anyways. They are basically grabbed to fill in spots (a lot like mesmers). But mesmers can actually still cause damage without having to wait 30 seconds to recharge their energy, or having monsters flee from their AoE.

With the additoon of these new classes I am sure that will only quicken their demise. Unless there is map somewhere in the new game that allows elementalists to do what they are supposed to do, they are basically not even worth building or keeping around. Again it isn't the class itself, but what has been done to them over the course of the game evolution.

SisterMercy · Mar 12, 2006, 03:24 PM // 15:24

Actually, I just deleted my Ele last night. Had played her for quite a bit, so it was like saying goodbye to an old friend. Took a screenshot of her atop the cliffs in L.A. ready to jump....

Eles aren't useless, there are still many effective things that they can do besides the dreaded AoE. Plus, there are times when you want the mobs to scatter and run around aimlessly (i.e. new ending at Sanctum Cay). However, they're far more limited and less interesting now.

While the AI needed some improvement before the December update, it didn't need it to this extreme. Eles already suffered from long cast times, the poorest armor in the game and exhaustion on lots of their spells.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ira Blinks

And guess what - barrage and traps are AoE to and mobs dont run from them either.

The solution is not to nerf SS beyond all usefulness. The process will just keep going (then Barrage, then Zealot's Fire, then...) until there's nothing interesting in the game and we're left with all-Mesmer spike teams, because that's the only profession with useful abilities that no one has noticed enough to complain about.

Everything's going to change in a month or so, with Factions, and there will be new skills to be abused and nerfed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kai Nui

I'm a mesmer. I eat shit because I wasn't meant to be a primary profession.

We're changing it gradually. Get out there and play the game; make everyone realize what you're doing effectively.

Ira Blinks · Mar 12, 2006, 03:29 PM // 15:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by SisterMercy

The process will just keep going (then Barrage, then Zealot's Fire, then...) until there's nothing interesting in the game...

or... untill everything is well balanced and every profession is required to make decent team

Celain · Mar 12, 2006, 03:42 PM // 15:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ira Blinks

one thing i dont seem to get is all this talk about rangers... Rangers have replaced eles, not SS necros. Jeez open your eyes ppl. The only place rangers are still not welcome is SF and only because people are too lazy to change builds. And guess what - barrage and traps are AoE to and mobs dont run from them either.

Just a bit of a correction. Traps do cause mobs to flee.