Curse

tramssii · Apr 25, 2006, 01:20 AM // 01:20

I was wondering if there is an effective build out there which combines water and air. Would someone please point me in the right direction to start. I'm looking for something that is good in either PvP or PvE. They both work so please post a reply with some imput on what you think would be good.

Vahn Roi · Apr 25, 2006, 02:58 AM // 02:58

I too am very interested in this concept...

Francis Crawford · Apr 25, 2006, 07:05 AM // 07:05

Elementalist skill bars are generally crowded enough with energy management and rez that it's best to focus on one element.

Another reason is that with few exceptions, the effectiveness of elementalist spells varies greatly with attribute level.

tramssii · Apr 25, 2006, 07:41 PM // 19:41

So your saying scratch the idea and stick with one of the two elements? I have not tried this but a fun combo sounds like slowing them with water and pounding them with air.

Francis Crawford · Apr 26, 2006, 04:53 AM // 04:53

Yeah, I'm saying scratch the idea and focus.

Slowing them isn't important or useful except in specialized circumstances, most of which involve flag running and/or kiting away from warriors.

artay · Apr 26, 2006, 07:34 AM // 07:34

i disagree, mixing elements can be one the most fun and effective things to do. Its tranditionists like francis that is holding back the pvp and pve community from being creative

Francis Crawford · Apr 26, 2006, 03:29 PM // 15:29

OK. Let's make this very simple.

There is almost no such thing as a good build that uses more than one attribute for DAMAGE. That attribute can be elementalist or necro or mesmer or warrior or ranger or monk (smiting), but it always works out to be best to put all your damage eggs into one attribute basket.

In general, about the most you can do is:

1 attribute for damage (fire or air if you're just picking it for damage)
1 attribute for energy management (Energy Storage, Soul Reaping, or Expertise if you heave the relevant primary profession, Blood Magic or Inspiration Magic otherwise)
1 attribute for self-healing (energy storage, healing magic, wilderness survival, whatever)
1 attribute for defense (earth or water)
1 utility attribute (e.g., damage buffs for a ranger, speed buffs for a warrior, Spinal Shivers for a necro)
Utility skills as relevant that don't really need serious attribute investment -- Condition/hex removal, air knockdown, attribute-less skills, Balanced Stance, interrupts, Channeling, etc.

And of those "5" attributes, max out the damage one (unless yours is not primarily a damage build), and don't seriously invest in more than 3 total, so it's good to double up, eg.

Earth defense and damage for an elementalist
Wilderness Survival self-healing and damage buffs for a ranger
Inspiration interrupts/defense/energy management/self-healing
Self-healing plus other benefits in any of three necro lines

Hmm. Maybe that wasn't so simple after all.

Anyhow, if you have your heart set on air/water, either make air the damage attribute and use water just for the armor spells and maybe Rust, or focus on water and just do a bit of air for Gale. I don't think using the disruption from both of them is likely to go well together, because of energy efficiency issues plus the fact that Water Magic slowdown simply isn't that valuable except in special cases.

Ares982 · Apr 26, 2006, 06:20 PM // 18:20

What about the Lightning Touch / Water Hexes combo?

I'll post a build to use in pvp against mostly wars:

Enervating Charge
Blurred Vision
Shard Storm
Lighning Touch
Lightning Orb
Gale
Mist Form
Air Attunement

Max out Air (12+4)
Energy Storage 9 + 1
Rest in Water Magic + 1 rune

It should work as this: Cast Enervating Charge and Blurred vision on the targeted war, then start to pound him with Storm and Orb; when he comes near you should Mist Form and then Touch him. Gale for interrupting pesky skills.
It's not a wonderful pvp build but I tested it and sometimes worked very smoothly.

Ira Blinks · Apr 26, 2006, 08:04 PM // 20:04

im with Francis on this. Most ele spells are very dependant on attribute points in related attribute. There are few exceptions like Gale and Shock, but that is kinda irrelevant to this build.
Benefit from multilining is totaly negated by slots wasted on half useful spells. For instance secondary damage on Lightning Touch is waaay too small to bother bringin water hex. Compare it to similar necro skills - they do not require you to go melee, secondary damage ignores armor and other little things like life stealing (ignores prot spells and heals you) and energy cost... Its just all around crappy skill, thats it.

tramssii · Apr 29, 2006, 04:15 PM // 16:15

Okay and thanks for the input. If anyone else has any ideas on this please feel free to post what you think on the subject matter. To be honest with the everyone else, I have to say that it's disapointing to see how much the Elementalist class has been down graded over the nine months I've been playing. I mean, if you've been playing a while you probably remember how much fun it was to be an ele and how usefull you were compared to now...

Lordhelmos · May 14, 2006, 06:03 AM // 06:03

Actually I've been experimenting with some of these water and air combinations and I've found a few quite interesting:

Heres a current build I've been playing with in PvP:

Air: 14 (+3 Sup Rune, +1 From Headgear)
Water: 10 (+1 Minor Rune)
E storage: 9 (+1 Minor Rune)
Healing : 9

Skills:
-Blinding Flash
-Lightning Orb (Arc Lightning for variation)
-Shard Storm (Gale for variation)
-Deep Freeze (Ice Spikes for 4vs4/Maelstrom for variation)
-Heal Party (Heal Other for 4vs4)
-Extinguish
-Ether Prodigy
-Rez Signet

The main purpose of this build is warrior hate and party support. You will be playing along the backfield most of the time spamming heal party/heal other and extinguish to clean out conditions and support the team. Ice spikes or Deep Freeze (for 8vs8 and alliance battles when more enemies are on the map) serves as a nice instant hit snare that can trap groups. Deep freeze and a 10 second slowdown can be devastating to enemy teams when timed right, since the area of effect is huge. You can also swap it out for Ice Spikes in a 4vs4 battle when hitting so many enemies at once isn't an issue. I really bring shard storm for self protection against a nearby warrior who wont stop tailing me, the 5 second slowdown is nice and at melee range the fact that it's a projectile doesnt matter. If a war is coming at you with a hammer its a good idea to blind him first because you can still get mauled with a KD combo. Once you have the chaser slowed you can just relocate yourself and continue to spam heal party. With these skills I've been able to piss off so many warriors to no end since they never reach my monks and are blind by the time they do. After 10 seconds of blind I usually have more snares to further piss them off while my monks sit there and laugh at them. Also heal party spamming with Ether Prodigy helps the team over time and spamming extinguish makes problems caused by enemy blinders and tainted flesh non-existent. Mesmers and Interrupt rangers still cause a problem for this build. I recommend blinding rangers first and trying to find some obstacle on the map to hide behind while you spam skills to support your team. Vs. Mesmers I try to hit one with a quick shard storm and relocated out of spell range hoping they would forget about me. If not, I tell the rest of my team of my situation and hope they can spike down the mesmer to low enough life for me to finish him off with a well placed lightning orb as long as I'm not in a position to be interrupted easily. A good idea is also to stay near your monks and camp them out, usually most players will go for your monk first instead of you. This is your opportunity to make life for those warriors out for your monk's blood a living hell with snares and blinds. If you monk plays smart he will take advantage of you protection and kite away from the enemy while you continue to annoy them. Continually cycling a warrior between snares and blinds if enough to drive alot of people insane. I've gotten quite a few rage quits from enemy warriors keeping them at bay with modified variations of this build. Also anothing idea would also be to swap Lightning Orb out for Arc Lightning so that you can spread lightning damage by spamming it over serveral targets. Changing out Deep Freeze for Maelstrom also works and you can also substitute Shard Storm for Gale if you want to turn the tables on interrupters. Have fun tinkering with this build and let me know what you think. On another note, make sure you are aware of your position when you use spells with long cast times like Deep Freeze since an interrupted 25 cost spell can be very bad news for you.

After alot of experimenation I've come up with a really nice Air/Water build I use extensively.... of course that one im keeping to myself for now (:

derrtyboy69 · May 14, 2006, 07:45 AM // 07:45

A combo ive been wantin to try:

Water hex
Ride the lightning
Lightning touch

Has anyone tried this out?

LightningHell · May 14, 2006, 10:13 AM // 10:13

Actually I'm thinking of (for fun):

E/W
Energy Storage: 10
Air Magic: 10 (I'd really like this to be higher but I can't drop Tactics THAT low.)
Water Magic: 8
Tactics: 8

Deep Freeze (Nearly only for the freeze)
Blinding Flash
Ether Prodigy/"Charge!"
Healing Signet
"Shields Up!"/"Watch Yourself!"
Lightning Orb
(Something!)/Bonneti's Defense (RA)
Resurrection Signet

I'm just really bored after not playing GW for a month or two.

ikickedbutt · May 20, 2006, 05:17 AM // 05:17

please dont even look at lightning touch. it is probably the most useless skill in the ele line; prehaps even the whole game.

Skill. Target touched foe and all adjacent foes are struck for 10..60 lightning damage. Foes suffering from a Water Magic Hex are struck for an additional 10..40 lightning damage. This skill has 25% armor penetration.
Air Magic - 15 energy- 0.75 cast- 10 recharge.

ok now most striking is the 15 energy tag. way too much for too little. next is the fact that it requires melee range, "Target touched foe." next, you have to have a water magic hex on the target and adjacent targets (!) to get full use of it. even with a hex on them (which could cost you ANOTHER 15 energy, or even 25 if you want to use a lasting AoE hex) it does about as much as a lightning orb. and since its a skill you cannot arcane echo it. the AoE can be quite disregarded, if an elementalist runs up to targets, the enemy thinks, "oh crap he is either gonna EQ/AS me or he is flame burst" and then make sure they have some distance between themselves and the victim.
Personally i would just rather lightning orb someone.

on the subject of water/air... i really cant imagine that, it is probably the worst elemental combo. most the other ones work really well. fire/air air/earth earth/water work great, and to an extent fire/water but not really water/air. unfortunatley air has no real need to slow down enemies, the only thing i can think of is a warrior hate build with blurred vision and flash and snares and such

ligntning that is a good idea, putting warrior support skills on an ele, might work good in HA.

Trylo · May 20, 2006, 07:09 PM // 19:09

It costs 15 energy for the same reason Vampiric Touch costs 15; Rangers.

Either make Lightning Touch into a spell and 10 energy, or totally forget about it.

ps. If you dont understand why its rangers, im lazy and dont wanna wite a whole lot, but its because of expertise.

tramssii · May 25, 2006, 02:38 AM // 02:38

Lol, nicely put. Yeah i was trying to work around with the air/water myself and havent come up with very much. I like your guys ideas also. Anyone else?

Ensign · May 25, 2006, 04:58 AM // 04:58

Lightning Orb, Ice Spikes, (Shard Storm or Deep Freeze), Ether Prodigy, Blinding Flash, Heal Party, (2 of Extingish, Windborne Speed, Ressig) is a pretty common template for a flagger. The snares give a different sort of utility than a straight air guy. Attributes are typically 13 Air, 10 Water, and some balance of Healing and Energy Storage with no superior.

Peace,
-CxE

Trylo · May 25, 2006, 10:47 PM // 22:47

Try out Gust {E} before they nerf it...

tramssii · May 29, 2006, 04:02 AM // 04:02

Where is that at?

artay · May 29, 2006, 08:09 AM // 08:09

Envergating Charge and stoning is a good combo.