Curse

Florence Cortista · Jul 20, 2006, 09:16 AM // 09:16

Alright im a big Ele user PvE. I devoted most of my time to Fire or Earth Builds. The problems withs Water Skills in PvE is most of them do slowdown instead of the damage that fire gives. Unless u intend on running awayt from mobs its a bad abilty. However have this always in consideration. Waterskills come in many 1 hit AOE. So it doesn't trigger the AOE Ai to often. Ward of Protection is always underated but is a good armour boost that just can't be removed. Also u can mistform E/R to farm anything melee. We all can write a book on what we think.

Bascily Water Ele's are OK and Fun, but as DPS and general funtionality, other Ele's and other classes are better for most situations.

chikorita23 · Jul 24, 2006, 07:51 AM // 07:51

I think I have A LOT to say after reading most people's stereotype impression on Water magics.

You can spike water magics... seriously! I've been using Hydromancer ever since GW Chapter One come out. At water magic 16, someone had mentioned... Water Trident + Shard Storm + Vapor Blade + Water Trident = spike dmg!! Water Trident does 74dmg, Vapor Blade does around 120dmg, Shard Storm does 69dmg. If u cast it on casters even assassin, the dmg won't be reduce (unless it's lv28 bosses) In general ALL elements gets reduce even fire.... if u try to hit warriors, rangers or bosses in Pve!

I still don't know why people think Water don't do in Pve. Some people said enemies ran away from Maelstroms.... well, they do run away from ANY elements AOE including nukers! And that's why u need "Ice Spike" or "Deep Freeze" or "Frozen Burst" to crowd control them! AND..... Water Trident any flee away enemy casters! Its amazing how a lot of enemies run "back and forward to Maelstrom in pve!!" The interrupt spells ability are much better then Meteror Shower!! *it instantly interrupt any spells in 10 secs.... constantly!! not every 3 secs!!*

Water is very useful in both Pve and Pvp, yet... I know people tend to be simple minded and follow the stereotype impression Ele = Nuker. *For ppl whom have eles included* I've once told by my guild leader.... *Ahh can u switch ur elements coz someone is running Fire Ele, fire might counter your Water hex* <<< no offense, my leader is very experiences with GW and he has ele! But indeed, only Ice Prisoner will be counter by fire.... and this only prove ppl neglect Water spells.

If in PvP, Water eles or Mesmers kill ppl fast... I don't see why in Pve they couldn't. (Example, Mesmer with Inpetitude elite + Clumsiness + all the degens, Pve enemies die very very very fast.... and yet ppl still call mesmer useless in Pve??)

Oh well, I knew in the future same topic would occur... about Water being the weakest.... it's probably Anet's fault. Because Anet doesn't really courage gamers using Water. (Water doesn't get that many spells compare with Fire, Air and Earth!! And we don't even have a Water Ele Henchemen while we have Cynn = Fire, KaiYeng = Earth, Shockhenchmen = Air)

LightningHell · Jul 24, 2006, 01:10 PM // 13:10

Whoa.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chikorita23

You can spike water magics... seriously! I've been using Hydromancer ever since GW Chapter One come out. (1) At water magic 16, someone had mentioned... Water Trident + Shard Storm + Vapor Blade + Water Trident = spike dmg!! Water Trident does 74dmg, Vapor Blade does around 120dmg, Shard Storm does 69dmg. If u cast it on casters even assassin, the dmg won't be reduce (unless it's lv28 bosses) In general ALL elements gets reduce even fire.... if u try to hit warriors, rangers or bosses in Pve!

I still don't know why people think Water don't do in Pve. Some people said enemies ran away from Maelstroms.... (2) well, they do run away from ANY elements AOE including nukers! And that's why u need "Ice Spike" or "Deep Freeze" or "Frozen Burst" to crowd control them! AND..... Water Trident any flee away enemy casters! Its amazing how a lot of enemies run "back and forward to Maelstrom in pve!!" The interrupt spells ability are much better then Meteror Shower!! *it instantly interrupt any spells in 10 secs.... constantly!! not every 3 secs!!*

Water is very useful in both Pve and Pvp, yet... (3) I know people tend to be simple minded and follow the stereotype impression Ele = Nuker. *For ppl whom have eles included* I've once told by my guild leader.... *Ahh can u switch ur elements coz someone is running Fire Ele, fire might counter your Water hex* <<< no offense, my leader is very experiences with GW and he has ele! But indeed, only Ice Prisoner will be counter by fire.... and this only prove ppl neglect Water spells.

If (4) in PvP, Water eles or Mesmers kill ppl fast... I don't see why in Pve they couldn't. (Example, Mesmer with Inpetitude elite + Clumsiness + all the degens, Pve enemies die very very very fast.... and yet ppl still call mesmer useless in Pve??)

Oh well, I knew in the future same topic would occur... about Water being the weakest.... it's probably Anet's fault. Because Anet doesn't really courage gamers using Water. (5) (Water doesn't get that many spells compare with Fire, Air and Earth!! And we don't even have a Water Ele Henchemen while we have Cynn = Fire, KaiYeng = Earth, Shockhenchmen = Air)

Four more important things to bring out. I'll leave the lesser bits out, even though they do annoy me some.

1) That is not a spike. Your opponent's monk can heal the target...? Vapor Blade has 2 cast, Shard Storm has 1, Water Trident has 1, and there's also aftercast.

That reminds me of the Shatterstone "spike".

2) Fireball. Inciendary Bonds. Meteor Shower. Rodgort's Invocation.

3) Nothing much here, but I do think you should redefine these terms: "people", "experienced". Mind you, we do know a Water elly is useful.

4) Water ellys don't kill fast. Ellys don't kill fast, period. Unless it's a spike, and Water can't really spike. Not with the one you suggested, anyways.

5) That's new to me. If you're talking about stuff like Attunements that every element has (supposedly), well, Earth doesn't have a Conjure, Air doesn't have a Flare/Ice Spear/Stone Daggers equivalent?

chikorita23 · Jul 24, 2006, 06:44 PM // 18:44

- 1) monk can heal any target if that's the case u're saying. Some of the Air spell like Lighting Orbs, chain lighting cost few sec to cast too! So I'd still say Water can spike a bit. If you use Mist Form + Ice Spear u can spike well.

- 2) Maelstrom can constantly interrupt, and like the other Water Ele topic which u try to counter me... I've said the same thing, a lot of people didn't pay attention on maelstroms, they didn't even walk away. In Pve, I've seen enemies walk in and back from maelstrom too, the spell range is actually quite large as well. Meteor Shower yeah... the symbol of ele AOE... it doesn't hit every 9 secs and enemies can still ran away as well as Maelstrom.

- 3) Yes, you do know a water ele is helpful, and still you try to counter every part I made. Those terms I didn't target on any specific people except giving out the case in my guild. And what I've seen and experiences in GW.

- 4) Water ele can't kill fast? I'm sorry which type of opponent are you saying? All Elementals kill fast, but not with high armor melee enemies, there is this guy in this topic who list his water spike on caster already. For warriors, rangers they do have a lot of elemental reduction on any elements, including Fires!

- 5) Ahh I'm sure it's very new to you. Did I ever talk about stuff like attunements? Nope! What make u think that's the part I'm complaining?

If you have every ele-spell lists on your skill section. You'd notice water spells are a lot lessers then the other elements. (Just like I noticed Curse spells is a lot lesser then Death and Blood section) In Chapter One, when the game is all new.... Newbie land ONLY teach you Fire spells + Fire AOE and Air Spike/Blind. GW already encourage the impression of Ele = nuker or spiker. This is definitely not new... few people been mentioned and complain about it before! Every other classes teach skills in each field on newbie land, giving players general idea on each fields. But when it comes to Eles, they left out water and earth.

Through out the game... u'll noticed in Faction Earth/Fire Spells are being promoted as there are so many New "Earth Green Weapons" "New Useful Earth/Fire Faction Spells". Enemies been using a lot of Earth/Fire spells especially at the first part of the Canthan PvE! *Jade Brotherhood's or Ah Fei I forgot which one of them using Earth Knockdown combos etc.* And I forgot what's the land call but henches enemies there use Earth as well. There are 3 Ele Henchmens cover 3 elements but left out a pure water ele. Of course, needless to say so far we only discover Kaolin Water Staff + The Stonebreaker 2 new faction green water weapons while other elements get more new greens. Oh... and if you only have faction copy, GW totally left out very useful Water Trident, Frozen Burst and Water armor spells such as Armor of Mist!! *the wonderful armor + running spells* while the air one is still in the faction spell list.

Mathias Deathwater · Jul 27, 2006, 12:55 AM // 00:55

As my name may suggest, I too use water as my usual element of choice. The reason is that when I was looking at skills before I bought the game, my friend said something along the lines of "all the elements are good, except water." That immediately made me want to play water to prove him and everyone else wrong.

Mainly I've found that it's invaluable in PvP, and you can make it work in PvE. My personal favorite is using an Ice Spikes -> Feast of Corruption combo, and when I'm not doing that I've come up with a decent Ether Prodigy spam everything build. The truth is, Fire will always be the element of choice for PvE damage, but water's slowdowns have their place in the right teams.

MalVeauX · Jul 27, 2006, 03:51 PM // 15:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Francis Demeules

/sigh

I hate starting threads when I think I will get flamed in a sec.

I want something to ask you all: Do you think Water ele can get their place in PvE? I mean, I saw like only 2 since I started playeing (Prophecies beta) in PvE. I know they're still good in PvP but its another thing. What I ask now is PvE only. I dont want to mean to create a build. But, its like players want to follow the same old routine.....

I don't see why not? Sure, it won't be doing the same thing as the more popular wonder builds, but it's still useful. Fun too.

Depends what you want to do really. Do you want to actively participate in damage dealing, or in utility? You can do both just fine. You could even take Ranger as your 2nd profession for stances. Or Necro, as described above.

Jetdoc · Jul 28, 2006, 08:51 PM // 20:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

Air doesn't have a Flare/Ice Spear/Stone Daggers equivalent?

Shock arrow is pretty darn close, with only a one second recharge.

H2BH · Jul 29, 2006, 06:46 PM // 18:46

Water Ele's SUCK --- Alot of people have this opinion for 1 reason and 1 reason alone, thier secondary profession is a mesmer...if thats the case there's no real benefit to ice...arcane echo, degens, e-denail, none of them benefit from ice magic enough to make it worth it, especialy since most E/me's are all about damage. Sure you CAN use ice for a mes, but....it just doesnt hold up in PvE (Ice E/Me works alot better in pvp with an edenial/ interupt build due to mist form)

PvE Water E/Mo's are awsome, nice damage, nice heals, never die, its nice to have a healer who's immune to physical, absorbs arrow attacks hits for 40-70 damage with a 5 mana cast and can move 33% faster, casting heal other for about 122 +65 and rooting anything that attacks the monks, and acting as a root puller for the group....sounds pretty useful to me in pve.

I mean seriously, Ice spear is the single greatest pup spell in any of the elemental lines, its wicked powerful in pvp and in PvE when everyone else is doing crap damage 9/10 times ice spear will be hitting for at least 60. I mean even on glint the lvl 31 Bonus Dragon boss...hits him for 60 a shot...no one else in the group ele or not is doing anywhere close to that much.

Carry a wand and a off hand with +20% chance to recharge ice spells and it suddenly makes ice spikes a very useful and scary spell. If I run up to something in mist form, hit frozen burst + ice spikes thats just as good as inferno + fire ball -- and then all i do is ice spike, mobs eat the dirt fast.

Sure the ability to kill groups of 3-5 mobs non stop is pretty much impossible with ice....but when in a group most of the time else are not pulling the agro and doing most of the damage, and if you are you're using AoE, which means you either have to get close IE healers start bitching at you OR you are casueing fleeing IE warriors start bitching at you. As an ice ele people are going omg why is that ele standing in the middle of 9 hill giants and not taking damage, OH SNAP 2 spells and they are all at half HP. When everyone else is dead youll still be standing there, casting mist form and armor of mist kitting and rezzing everyone and picking things off with ice spear. Sure it may take longer but ice is about utility and survival, not DPS. And in most cases the groups DPS comes from the warriors generaly....

And as any real ice ele knows hitting something for 70 damage a shot for 5 mana at end game is pretty much insane DPS which can easily rival a fire ele on several targets....just not 3 at a time

As far as this tri spec runner nonsense....why even on a running build would you tri spec?

Frie gives no benefit to running....neither really does earth minus kenetic armor of course. Cleary the choice for running is ice...for simple reason....putting all your points into ice gets you an 18 second base duration for an armor buff AND 33% increased speed, so +4 gets you to 21 seconds....stack on +20% enchatment duration, now you're to 23 seconds...meaning for only 7 seconds are you not running 33% and unarmored....and for that, there's Armor of mist making u invulnrable to everything but degen and like the 1 or 2 nuke spells cast in pve, Ice also contains aura which absorbs arrow attacks..once again high ice spec gives long duration making running easier, puttuing the rest into some other heavy enchantment line, or air magic for another run buff so you can use Armor of Mist + Mist form right before it expires + Windborn speed --- its a nice run build but you need some other spells to cover those enchantments...of you will get stripped and pwnt. I use protection prayers to cover my mist form + run buffs.

12 water, 8 protection prayer...like 7-9 healing prayer rest air magic
Windborn speed
Armor of Mist
Mist Form
Aura
Reversal of fortune
Healing Breeze
remove hex
remove condition

Ive managed to run to everywhere but droks with this...damn root spells combined with stripenchantment are hell.....

Ever since going to ice Ive had a real hard time using any other line, the extra mobility and near invulnrability makes it really addicting, especialy when you can still bring down a hydra in 4 casts of ice spear.

Bmont3779 · Aug 04, 2006, 06:39 PM // 18:39

Thank u H2BH. A ICE E/Mo is a great build, i have ran a water ele ever since i got my first water skill in ascholon. It really is a undermind skill. yes i will say that water does not do enough dmg as the other builds, but combined with another type of ele (hopeful air) this combo can be deadly. What do air eles use alot? they use chain lighting, what dose chain lighting need? ppl to be close by. What can a water ele do? Keep ppl close by. The water ele is not a high dmg build, it is more of a support build, that crowd controls and heals the team when needed (heal party is a good skill to bring). ice spear is great, u can spam it and it does great dmg ( i have killed wars with ice spear). and mist form is a great spell (even though i dont use it), i use water trident, its knockdown with good dmg and really help your monks when they start to run (o and monks will run

. ). water eles are great, and more ppl should try them, you will like it.

/signed