Curse

zling · Aug 30, 2006, 09:47 AM // 09:47

damn lightninghead, you're so blind...
how the hell can you kite with iron mist on your ass? 90% SLOWDOWN and you say you kite, lmao

and by the way, 20/20 wand+20/20 off hand and the orb will most likely take less than 2 seconds to cast... and even if it does take the full 2 seconds, you cant move for crying out loud... either knocked down(gale) or slowed down(iron mist)
you guys are just sticking to your old school ideas that warriors own everyone and that elementalist suck balls...
good morning, wake up, there are other things beyond what you see in your mind, and you should accept your mistakes when you make them, not try to persuade everyone that you actually know what you're saying when you actually dont...

elementalists are very very very underestimated, I'd love to see your magnificent warrior face a decent ele 1 on 1 and own him...

LightningHell · Aug 30, 2006, 09:51 AM // 09:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by zling

damn lightninghead, you're so blind...
how the hell can you kite with iron mist on your ass? 90% SLOWDOWN and you say you kite, lmao

Iron Mist on an Ele is already bad enough...
and by the way, 20/20 wand+20/20 off hand and the orb will most likely take less than 2 seconds to cast... and even if it does take the full 2 seconds, you cant move for crying out loud... either knocked down(gale) or slowed down(iron mist)
you guys are just sticking to your old school ideas that warriors own everyone and that elementalist suck balls...
good morning, wake up, there are other things beyond what you see in your mind, and you should accept your mistakes when you make them, not try to persuade everyone that you actually know what you're saying when you actually dont...

elementalists are very very very underestimated, I'd love to see your magnificent warrior face a decent ele 1 on 1 and own him...

......

Prove me wrong. Show me how EXACTLY do you kill a warrior. What, spam teh uber flare?

GenX2 · Aug 31, 2006, 03:53 AM // 03:53

i got a way to kill a War with a ele simply but its a build iam trying to send to Wiki still need to figure out how to do that

gives me a headache trying

Lord Cooper · Sep 04, 2006, 06:40 PM // 18:40

lightninghell i dint know why you are being so hard on eles considering you seem to be one yourself? be that as it may though you asked me how do i kill the warrior.. i believe i had answered that but ill go through it again.. if i run pure water then echo'd vapor blades, ice spears and ice spikes/deepfreeze etc is fairly evil and effective.. and before you bring up heal sig and kiting we,ve already been through that. you are snared and im hammering ice spears into your heal sig which aint good news for your warrior.

if i run earth/air then it more of the same except with obby flame, iron mist various lightning skills for damage and blinding flash for defense

if im feeling particularly evil and feel like giving you a slow death then its earth and fire and illusion for a mean burning, hex and degen build (which im not sharing by the way)

but as i said before the classes are balanced i think.. it all comes down to the skill of the players.

frojack · Sep 04, 2006, 10:09 PM // 22:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Cooper

lightninghell i dint know why you are being so hard on eles considering you seem to be one yourself?

Experience perhaps?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Cooper

... how do i kill the warrior.. i believe i had answered that but ill go through it again.. if i run pure water then echo'd vapor blades, ice spears and ice spikes/deepfreeze etc is fairly evil and effective.. and before you bring up heal sig and kiting we,ve already been through that. you are snared and im hammering ice spears into your heal sig which aint good news for your warrior.

All I see are energy problems. No offence but I know which ele I'd prefer backing my own in a fight...

artay · Sep 05, 2006, 06:50 AM // 06:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Without outside support and locked in an enclosed space, an elementalist dies in about two minutes when facing down a warrior. Eventually the elementalist runs out of mana, his warrior hate slows down, and he dies - better elementalists would last longer in the duel. An elementalist cannot kill a warrior. Trying to do so merely accelerates the rate at which you die.

Peace,
-CxE

Ummm ok....

elemental attunement,Blinding flash, envergating charge, stoning, ward vs melee,whirlwind and obsidian flame. (rinse and repeat) = GG This was built for 1v1 purposes. i kno a monk would make me useless. And i just killed a warr in a scrim. Pm me if you ever wanna vs me :P

Lord Cooper · Sep 05, 2006, 08:08 AM // 08:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by frojack

Experience perhaps?

All I see are energy problems. No offence but I know which ele I'd prefer backing my own in a fight...

none of my builds suffer from energy problems in a 1v1 fight which is what me a lightning were discussing i believe.. yes in a protracted fight energy can be an issue for all eles but thats where some of the skill comes in.. you dont keep hammering exhausting/high cost spells. all 3 of the builds i mentioned in the previous posts have been tried and tested in RA, TA and AB and they work (for me anyway). im not saying im invincible.. far from it! but 1 on 1 its very rare that i cant hold my own and if i cant i snare and kite. if my opponent cares to chase me then ive still taken him out of the main fight and if he doesnt im free to have another go at him or choose another target. on the whole a well played ele is just as effective and useful as any other well played class

Amok Affinity · Sep 05, 2006, 09:51 AM // 09:51

what the hell is with this 1v1 trash? is there a 1v1 ladder, 1v1 arena or 1v1 anything? was gw made with 1v1 in mind? i don't see how one person facing another alone serves to prove anything at all about either player skill or build supremacy or anything, anything AT ALL!

but maybe i'm mistaken and it's an excellent way to gauge a plethora of things accurately; please enlighten me.

Lord Cooper · Sep 05, 2006, 04:17 PM // 16:17

blame lightning for that not me...he is the one that suggested that 1 on 1 an ele could not beat a warrior in any circumstances. i am merely countering that claim and trying put across the point that despite popular belief the classes are balanced and a fight is purely down to the skill of the player and not necessarily the class.

if you take any class outside of their role then yes it is easy to beat them.
as an ele im not going to suddenly equip a sword and go charging in to fight a warrior.. that wopuld be stupidity.. an ele is designed to attack from a distance and we excel at that. likewise i wouldnt expect a warrior to pick up a bow and start pinging arrows at his target... a warrior is designed to fight up close and personal and they excel at that.

the whole point is that a warrior is melee and an ele is ranged. a large part of any battle between the two would be trying to manouver your opponent outside his natural range. so a warrior would be manouvering to close to melee and the ele will manouver to keep ranged.

im not sure i explained that clearly but hopefully you get the general drift

frojack · Sep 05, 2006, 08:05 PM // 20:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Cooper

none of my builds suffer from energy problems in a 1v1 fight which is what me a lightning were discussing i believe.. yes in a protracted fight energy can be an issue for all eles but thats where some of the skill comes in.. you dont keep hammering exhausting/high cost spells. all 3 of the builds i mentioned in the previous posts have been tried and tested in RA, TA and AB and they work (for me anyway). im not saying im invincible.. far from it! but 1 on 1 its very rare that i cant hold my own and if i cant i snare and kite. if my opponent cares to chase me then ive still taken him out of the main fight and if he doesnt im free to have another go at him or choose another target. on the whole a well played ele is just as effective and useful as any other well played class

Fair enough.

Quote:

Originally Posted by artay

elemental attunement,Blinding flash, envergating charge, stoning, ward vs melee,whirlwind and obsidian flame. (rinse and repeat) = GG This was built for 1v1 purposes. i kno a monk would make me useless. And i just killed a warr in a scrim. Pm me if you ever wanna vs me :P

Funny you should mention that build. I use something very similar to kill more or less everything that crosses my path (well, other than mesmers and fast monks). I can kill most warriors 1 on 1 with it. Especially those frenzied hammer freaks (or FHF's as I like to call em). I'll just assume they have all been pretty bad ones as I haven't faced a warrior yet I couldn't drop, without aid from his/her team-mates.

Funnily enough I made the build for Monks (calling it 'Monk Hunter'). I was pleasantly surprised to notice it drops a lot of other builds down just as quick (touchers included). Quite literally. Let it be said, knockdown is awesome.

joncoish · Sep 06, 2006, 12:28 AM // 00:28

Everyone bow down to Lightning Hell, as he definitely has the most 733t skillz!!!!!!!! God, the arrogance of some people. Can't anyone on this damn message board have a discussion about something without it turning into a competition about who has the biggest dick?

LightningHell · Sep 06, 2006, 02:43 AM // 02:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by joncoish

Everyone bow down to Lightning Hell, as he definitely has the most 733t skillz!!!!!!!! God, the arrogance of some people. Can't anyone on this damn message board have a discussion about something without it turning into a competition about who has the biggest dick?

So, enlighten me where my discussion has the word "dick", "1337ness", and "competition" in it.

And were we discussing a purely 1v1 scenario?

I was discussing 1v1 more like...you send a warrior to split, they send an elementalist (probably flashbot or sth). Who wins?

Quote:

on the whole a well played ele is just as effective and useful as any other well played class

Unargued.

Symbol · Sep 06, 2006, 07:06 AM // 07:06

Wait, are we talking typical GvG E/mo vs warrior, or do we have more freedom in builds? I take it since Ensign brings up gale (which isn't so common in the metagame anymore) it's the latter.

IMO, a dual attunements air spam elementalist stands a good (better than even chance) of taking down most warriors one on one. Javelin/strike/orb/blinding flash 20/20 wand and focus, self heal is aura of restoration.

You have a constant barrage of spells, so healsig cancelling isn't so effective. You have infinite energy for blinding flash, and AoR can easily cover the damage that gets through blind + any conditions the warrior manages to inflict.

The warrior's only hope is to survive long enough for your attunements to run out so as to get a chance to interrupt them when you put them back on, and then try to run you out of energy.

Now I'm not saying that this is a terribly good build, but it's quite robust against most warriors and offers a respectable amount of damage.

Now if the warrior should take an enchant strip (why?) then the picture changes. Something like a sever/gash/final sworder using shatter storm as an elite would be able to kill pretty much all elementalists one on one. But that's not a great template in general either...

I think people are really overestimating the power of healsig. It's a great skill and all, but with typical spec in tactics it's going to give you 20 hp/sec effective in healing if you cast it on recharge. It's certainly not impossible for an elementalist to surpass that damage output even against 96 AL warrior armor-especially given the fact that you _can't_ cast healsig on recharge if you're cancelling with any frequency and you're going to occasionally eat damage during a sig especially vs spam.

Ice spear spam with FC equipment alone will outdamage healsig. A water elementalist with ice spear and a couple of snares (ice prison/tenai's prison should work well for this purpose) and elite energy management is another build that should easily drop most warriors, albeit slowly.

Warriors are generally not a good duelling class. Neither are eles, but all said I'd claim a damage specced elementalist with the appropriate tools (snares or BF) has a sizeable advantage over the average PvP warrior. We all know that elementalists are sub-par damage dealers, but duelling is different. I'm guessing Ensign is coming from a GvG perspective, and yes, a prodigy powered flashturret is at a disadvantage vs the typical GvG warrior-but that build is specced first and foremost for defensive support, so why is that surprising?

LightningHell · Sep 06, 2006, 01:57 PM // 13:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Symbol

Wait, are we talking typical GvG E/mo vs warrior, or do we have more freedom in builds? I take it since Ensign brings up gale (which isn't so common in the metagame anymore) it's the latter.

IMO, a dual attunements air spam elementalist stands a good (better than even chance) of taking down most warriors one on one. Javelin/strike/orb/blinding flash 20/20 wand and focus, self heal is aura of restoration.

You have a constant barrage of spells, so healsig cancelling isn't so effective. You have infinite energy for blinding flash, and AoR can easily cover the damage that gets through blind + any conditions the warrior manages to inflict.

The warrior's only hope is to survive long enough for your attunements to run out so as to get a chance to interrupt them when you put them back on, and then try to run you out of energy.

Now I'm not saying that this is a terribly good build, but it's quite robust against most warriors and offers a respectable amount of damage.

Now if the warrior should take an enchant strip (why?) then the picture changes. Something like a sever/gash/final sworder using shatter storm as an elite would be able to kill pretty much all elementalists one on one. But that's not a great template in general either...

I think people are really overestimating the power of healsig. It's a great skill and all, but with typical spec in tactics it's going to give you 20 hp/sec effective in healing if you cast it on recharge. It's certainly not impossible for an elementalist to surpass that damage output even against 96 AL warrior armor-especially given the fact that you _can't_ cast healsig on recharge if you're cancelling with any frequency and you're going to occasionally eat damage during a sig especially vs spam.

Ice spear spam with FC equipment alone will outdamage healsig. A water elementalist with ice spear and a couple of snares (ice prison/tenai's prison should work well for this purpose) and elite energy management is another build that should easily drop most warriors, albeit slowly.

Warriors are generally not a good duelling class. Neither are eles, but all said I'd claim a damage specced elementalist with the appropriate tools (snares or BF) has a sizeable advantage over the average PvP warrior. We all know that elementalists are sub-par damage dealers, but duelling is different. I'm guessing Ensign is coming from a GvG perspective, and yes, a prodigy powered flashturret is at a disadvantage vs the typical GvG warrior-but that build is specced first and foremost for defensive support, so why is that surprising?

...Just to nitpick, I see/use a lot of Gale in GvG. It's decreased, but it's still there.

I am using usual GvG elementalist builds as a guideline and usual GvG warriors as a guideline as well, since I do not HA and therefore am not familiar with such builds there. I assume the Elementalist to be capable of filling other roles other than killing a Warrior 1v1.

Most of this is correct, but you are building specificially for 1v1. If a Warrior builds specificially for 1v1...

And in the "GvG perspective", there are people who will take care of you. While Blinding an Elementalist isn't exactly going to be lethal, blind should be readily removed.

Also, Empathic Removal will stop some Blind - albeit Blinding Flash having a 4s recharge, the Warrior can wait it out. Sometime.

I do not argue the Elementalist's duelling ability. I have duelled wars with eles before, and have won/drawed (according to template; it's pretty hard to kill someone with Dolyak Sig on) most of the matches.

My main problem is that people don't seem to take the "elementalists don't deal damage as much as a warrior can" at face value.

Rin · Sep 07, 2006, 08:55 PM // 20:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

I said CONSISTENT damage.

Consistant damage = sliver armor

LightningHell · Sep 08, 2006, 02:35 AM // 02:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rin

Consistant damage = sliver armor

/tab ftw

XvArchonvX · Sep 08, 2006, 07:10 PM // 19:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Without outside support and locked in an enclosed space, an elementalist dies in about two minutes when facing down a warrior. Eventually the elementalist runs out of mana, his warrior hate slows down, and he dies - better elementalists would last longer in the duel. An elementalist cannot kill a warrior. Trying to do so merely accelerates the rate at which you die.

Peace,
-CxE

LoL!! If this game was based on 1 on 1 your argument might be relevant. However this is a team based game. Assuming there was just a 1 on 1 with a warrior and ele for whatever reason Blinding Flash > melee attacks. There is no warrior condition removal skill and all monk condition removal skills would only remove the blind just in time for it to be applied again. Elementalists don't always run out of energy over time. Most good eles establish a good way to regen energy rather than simply relying on their storage (Elemental Attunement ftw). Finally, assuming that there was a warrior that couldn't be blinded, water snares, earth wards, and blurred vision are all perfectly capable of shutting down a warrior while an elementalist prances around and smacks down some damage.

joncoish · Sep 08, 2006, 08:50 PM // 20:50

Yeah, exactly. Why would an elementalist stay in one spot and let the warrior beat on him if they were fighting one on one. They could slow the warrior, blind the warrior, and just kick his ass with damage spells. If you stay out of melee range, how exactly is the warrior going to kill you?

Ensign · Sep 08, 2006, 10:13 PM // 22:13

They kill you when you run out of energy. That takes a couple of minutes.

A warrior specced for dueling an elementalist would be a lot different from the ones you typically see run as well. I don't know what the point of designing those builds is, though, because there isn't a 1v1 format in this game.

Peace,
-CxE

joncoish · Sep 09, 2006, 12:48 PM // 12:48

If the warrior was going to wait till the elementalist was out of energy, wouldn't the warrior be dead by then? Also, there is such a thing as energy management, meaning the elementalist wouldn't really need to run out of energy, or at least not as fast, and could get it back.