Curse

jesh · Sep 24, 2006, 12:02 AM // 00:02

This is the warrior that hangs back with the casters and tries to keep people alive. Please take a moment to consider the skill set and attributes, I've taken quite a while to come up with this. I would LOVE to put in Protector's Strike in there somewhere, but sadly I don't see how to do this without comprimising something. Originally I had planned to use Earth Magic, but moved away from this idea.. mainly because Water can give me a "ward" and a speed boost skill in the same line, while keeping my IAS active.

W/E
11+2 Strength
11+1+2 Hammer Mastery
8 Water Magic

Tiger Stance
Blurred Vision
Staggering Blow
Counter Blow
Armor of Mist
Earth Shaker {E}
On Your Knees!
Auspicious Blow

Basic outline on usage: Activate TS. Hit things and spam Counter Blow->On Your Knees as often as possible, to keep TS up. Use Staggering Blow when ready to weaken an enemy, promptly follow up with Auspicious Blow to recharge energy. The energy usage is actually not too bad for this build.

Natural warrior regen = .66 energy per second
.66*60 = 39.6 energy regeneration per minute

Assuming using all energy skills as soon as they are available, including constant TS, this build uses 100 energy per minute.

100-39.6 = 60.4

60.4 is the amount of energy you need to generate to keep the build up.
Auspicious Blow will give you 8 energy per hit at the attributes used in this build.

60.4/8= 7.55

Auspicious Blow needs to land 8 times per minute to meet the energy cost. Seems pretty reasonably, no? My warrior is at a low level right now, working on leveling a mesmer. I haven't tested the build at level 20 yet, but I don't really see a reason it shouldn't work.
The reason for 13 str is for Sentinel's Armor, of course.

I really have no clue what elite would work best, so I figured in those cases where Alesia has 4 warriors attacking her, Earth Shaker would work nicely.
Any suggestions on using different skills would be nice, esp. on the elite. Somehow I don't feel it fits right.

sgtclarity · Sep 24, 2006, 12:04 AM // 00:04

So what can this build do that a Warder or Frost mage can't?

jesh · Sep 24, 2006, 12:57 AM // 00:57

Knock downs and damage without consuming energy.
I kindly asked for suggestions, not sarcastic comments.
On second thought, I might leaning towards the "in stance" armor, I mean I will be in a stance all the time. Unless I get wild blow on me.. ugh. I'm not sure if I want that armor or not.

sgtclarity · Sep 24, 2006, 01:12 AM // 01:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by jesh

Knock downs and damage without consuming energy.
I kindly asked for suggestions, not sarcastic comments.
On second thought, I might leaning towards the "in stance" armor, I mean I will be in a stance all the time. Unless I get wild blow on me.. ugh. I'm not sure if I want that armor or not.

Wasn't sarcastic at all. What can this build do that the stated cannot? KDs do not constitute a solid defense. Nor give a reason to divert a frontline warrior to the rear reducing his/her effectiveness substansially.

jesh · Sep 24, 2006, 01:36 AM // 01:36

*Knockdowns knock things down.
*When things are on the ground they can't hit anyone.
*This build does more damage than a water elementalist.
*There are no water elementalists or warders in pve.

This warrior is built for the backlines, because melee just runs past a "tank" anyways. How much good does a frontline warrior do that's fighting 2 or 3 enemies, while 5-10 more are hitting his group? That reason is why I'm using a build like this in the first place.
If knockdowns aren't important, I don't see why so many people put shock on their skillbars.
If you aren't going to post any suggestions, I ask that you post somewhere else.

If a 50% chance of missing and knockdowns don't constitute a solid defense, I don't know what does. Obviously Aegis goes out the window.

sgtclarity · Sep 24, 2006, 03:10 AM // 03:10

No warder in pve... "O Y HARRO THAR KAI YING!"
Everything you have is just a crap version of what an elementalist can do.

I suggest you make an elementalist and stop flooding this subforum with retarded ideas.

jesh · Sep 24, 2006, 05:00 AM // 05:00

So instead of saying something constructive, you tell *me* to post somewhere else? I posted this here because I don't like the elite I have, and I want input. I didn't post here to get verbally assualted for playing a completely viable role.
The last time I saw a warder in a PuG was when I made a water elementalist, not once afterwards. Please tell me that these forums haven't degenerated to gwonline.net level. Is there anyone here who can actually offer input on my build, or am I asking for the inconceivable?

Mera Regila · Sep 24, 2006, 06:14 AM // 06:14

LOL! A perfectly good build thread gone to hell with flames if you ask me. I don't understand why the other guy got so stinking hostile after you stated ideas. I think this is a decent build, but it does nothing to casters and you won't be killing many Mursaat or other creatures that don't use meleers.

Nightsear · Sep 24, 2006, 06:38 AM // 06:38

Just get a Warder with Blinding Flash.

jesh · Sep 24, 2006, 06:52 AM // 06:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mera Regila

I think this is a decent build, but it does nothing to casters and you won't be killing many Mursaat or other creatures that don't use meleers.

Do you have any ideas what I change to be more effective in those areas? I was thinking Devestating Hammer {E}, but I'm not sure how it would compare with Earth Shaker and all. Thanks for not freaking out on me, I'd appreciate some more input.

Nightsear: I could, and have done that. I find elementalists unbearably boring, I'm sorry. I know this isn't a role many warriors take, but it's very fun for me so far.

Mera Regila · Sep 24, 2006, 07:10 AM // 07:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by jesh

Do you have any ideas what I change to be more effective in those areas? I was thinking Devestating Hammer {E}, but I'm not sure how it would compare with Earth Shaker and all. Thanks for not freaking out on me, I'd appreciate some more input.

Nightsear: I could, and have done that. I find elementalists unbearably boring, I'm sorry. I know this isn't a role many warriors take, but it's very fun for me so far.

Well if this is a backline defender then I suppose you'll be staying back and not attackign casters. In places with only long range units however, you should bring a good damage skill, counter blow will keep them knocked down, Crushing Blow might work. Some points in Earth Magic and an Aftershock following the Earth Shaker would cause some decent AoE damage in a short amount of time.

A Leprechaun · Sep 24, 2006, 08:01 AM // 08:01

I ,in some ways, agree with jesh while doing THK the other warriors(there were 3 of us) run off to kill one dolyak master ,and yes i did need to die but when i was stopping the 3 enemy warriors hacking up our backline they shouted at me for not attcking the dolyak which they dealt with easily anyway but the reason i dont comletely argree is you dont really need a special build you just need to hang back a bit and take down any warriors they come back or if there arnt any the casters that are hitting your backline.

~A Leprechaun~

LightningHell · Sep 24, 2006, 01:22 PM // 13:22

I'd say bring a Warder/utility ele. It's a waste of a Warrior.

On another note, conforming to your rules of "constructive comments": You could bring a res sig.

jesh · Sep 24, 2006, 06:53 PM // 18:53

Ok so.. so far I have:
Switch to Earth
Drop the Hex
Take AS
Keep Earthshaker
Bring Crushing Blow

I thought that most people didn't like AS because it's very hard to pull it off while the KD is still in effect? I remember reading that very recently, but I don't remember the details.

Obviously Counter Blow is nice, but it tends to be less effective VS casters. What skill would I take to knock them down, while they're casting?
Where should I put that darn res sig?

sgtclarity · Sep 24, 2006, 10:56 PM // 22:56

So, you ignore 3 people's comments that make sense and change your entire build to a cookie KD/AS build...
Nice.

Judging from your other posts I will assume you know little to medium about warriors in general. So I'm gonna save you a lot of heartbreak by saying that a warrior should in general stay amongst the casters of the enemy and do damage there. If your backline cannot support itself in PVE, it is either a. poorly skilled b. incompetent or c. undermanned.

jesh · Sep 25, 2006, 07:51 AM // 07:51

Sgtclarity: Obviously I'm not experienced with a hammer warrior, otherwise I wouldn't bother asking. As for my experience on other types of warriors, I'm willing to bet I have a lot more than the average guild wars player. I didn't ignore anyone, including you or Nightsear. Every suggestion I put into my last post. You can assume all you want, that doesn't make it right.

Another question: Would you all suggest using a different IAS, or does the current TS->KD->On Your Knees do the job just fine? I would really love to fit in Protector's Strike there somewhere also, but I don't know how.

Tiger Stance
Crushing Blow
Staggering Blow
Counter Blow
Aftershock
Earth Shaker {E}
On Your Knees!
Auspicious Blow

or

IAS/Adrenal skill
Crushing Blow
Staggering Blow
Counter Blow
Aftershock
Earth Shaker {E}
Res Siggy
Auspicious Blow

Or just throw out an IAS all together and use Crude Swing or Protector's Strike?

More replies would be great, thanks guys. (I hope you don't think I'm ignoring you as someone seems to think)

Spydergst1 · Sep 25, 2006, 04:02 PM // 16:02

In my humble opinion, I think a tank should be front line all the time. A good tank should block the advance of enemies to prevent them from getting to the monks. But, I know this is easier said then done. If you want to protect your monks or spell casters then I suggest you bring a speed boost (sprint or rush) and a skill which will cripple the enemy thus allowing the monks to run.

I play warrior. I have never played anything else and I have only on character. This allowed me to become very intimate with my characters abilities. I recently switched my secondary class to Ele and I am now trying to master my new warrior after I have mastered W/r. I tell you this so you know I am speaking from experience.

The best back line defender is a front line blocker. If someone gets passed you and you have another tank blocking then you can run back to defend. If you are the only tank stand your ground if things get tough it’s up to you to call a retreat. You stand your ground until the monks and spell casters have a big enough head start to safely fall back.

Mr.H.Mishima · Sep 25, 2006, 06:03 PM // 18:03

How about "None Shall Pass!" if you really want to stop them getting to the backline.

Personally, I'd run:

- Forceful Blow [Elite] (Hammer Mastery)
- Fierce Blow (Hammer Mastery)
- Yeti Smash (Hammer Mastery)
- Tiger Stance (Strength)
- Renewing Smash (Hammer Mastery)
- Auspicious Blow (Hammer Mastery)
- "None Shall Pass!" (Tactics)

Renewing Smash goes first, then immediately hit Tiger Stance. You can now be in Tiger Stance 100% of the time. You attack 33% faster, you deal extra damage and gain energy on weakness. Weakness is VERY nice to have on melee enemies against your casters.

jesh · Sep 25, 2006, 08:05 PM // 20:05

Spydergst1: This was mainly supposed to be that second tank, between the group and the first one. I understand what you're saying.

That being said, I think Hells Last Survivor about None Shall Pass is awesome. I've used that skill, but only when running. I've never seen it have an effect, though. I'll need to test it out and verify it's not broken. If it isn't, it'd seem like the perfect answer to the major problems of a PvE tank.

Hells Last Survivor, I also agree with you on the usefullness of weakness. However - I disagree with the use of Renewing Smash. It costs energy, and it has a 20 second recharge. If it was 9 or 10 seconds, that would work perfectly.

I'm debating using W/N for enfeebling blood instead of bothering with all these weakness skills, lol. But then of course, I'd need to put points in curses. Bleh.

Mr.H.Mishima · Sep 25, 2006, 09:00 PM // 21:00

You're missing the point.

A Zealous Hammer is probably a good idea here

Hit renewing smash as your first attack, then quickly hit Tiger Stance before Renewing Smash actually makes contact.

1 second: Renewing Smash > Tiger Stance (Tiger Stance is instantly recharged)

~4 seconds: Forecful Blow ready (weakness)

~~Auspicious Blow to regain energy

10 Seconds: Tiger Stance #2 starts

20 seconds: Renewing Smash > Tiger Stance

Lather, Rinse, Repeat.

That said, Wild Blow can ruin your day.

May not work so well using 'None Shall Pass!', but with as fast as the damage of this build is, you don't need to use it.